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Originally posted by sentinel007
Can you imagine what the state of California is in for when this mass exodus of criminals hits the streets.
Originally posted by onequestion
They became hardened criminals because of the prison system, don't you get it? The problem isn't people are commiting crime, the problem is they have to in the first place.
Originally posted by centurion1211
Originally posted by onequestion
They became hardened criminals because of the prison system, don't you get it? The problem isn't people are commiting crime, the problem is they have to in the first place.
Well, then they are already hardened criminals from being in prison even if what you say is true that they weren't before. Too late for them now.
Just like it is too late for some ordinary citizens who don't realize that the SCOTUS has indirectly sentenced them to death at the hands of some of these criminals. Dead (innocent) citizens walking ...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
If their release creates issues from a newly criminalized population, that is just the price we pay for beginning to right the ship. The alternative (to continue to incarcerate people for the reasons and at the rate we have without regard to humane conditions) is so unsavory as to make my stomache literally feel ill.
Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
I know a few big fat furry Texans, but you sir have to be my favorite one on ATS.
It's not everyday that you find someone willing to give up a little relative safety in order to protect liberty.
Originally posted by centurion1211
Except who is the "we" that will pay the price for "righting the ship"?
Will it be you and those that agree with you, and who consciously decided that that's what should be done?
Or, more likely, will it innocent people - maybe even children - that end up paying the price for "righting the ship"?
Originally posted by bsbray11
Originally posted by centurion1211
Except who is the "we" that will pay the price for "righting the ship"?
Will it be you and those that agree with you, and who consciously decided that that's what should be done?
Or, more likely, will it innocent people - maybe even children - that end up paying the price for "righting the ship"?
Look at it the other way. If we keep imprisoning more people than any other country on Earth for non-violent victimless crimes, how many non-violent victimless "offenders" are going to have to pay the price for not living in a free country?
What are you, worried about a bunch of potheads busting in your house with Uzis or something?
Originally posted by centurion1211
This isn't about me. Keep it on topic. If you have nothing left on topic, refrain from posting.
No, we are talking about people who are already in prison for committing actions they knew were (rightly or wrongly) considered serious crimes. They knew but did it anyway.
My point is that if someone has to "pay" for prison overcrowding, it shouldn't be innocent people. Start with the people who knowingly committed the crimes.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson"
Originally posted by bsbray11
Originally posted by centurion1211
This isn't about me. Keep it on topic. If you have nothing left on topic, refrain from posting.
I'm on topic. But if it isn't about you, who do you think you are speaking for? I don't know exactly who all they released, but if it's just drug dealers, prostitutes and gamblers... I don't really see an epidemic of chaos in the near future. They should have never been imprisoned in the first place if you ask me.
What do you think about the US putting more people in prison than any other nation on Earth? Do you think that's really necessary? Do you think we can even really say this is a "free country" anymore? I don't think so.
No, we are talking about people who are already in prison for committing actions they knew were (rightly or wrongly) considered serious crimes. They knew but did it anyway.
So what? That's the American spirit right there. They could make it a felony to pick berries and you know what? I would pick more berries than ever. If you think that's a problem with me rather than the government then I don't particularly care. Just because something is against the law doesn't mean it's hurting anyone, or that it's necessarily even wrong to do. It just means the government is overstepping its boundaries like usual and the innocent people that are paying for it are the ones being bullied by police and sent to prison.
My point is that if someone has to "pay" for prison overcrowding, it shouldn't be innocent people. Start with the people who knowingly committed the crimes.
Your definition of "innocent" here is arbitrary. Someone who is imprisoned for prostitution is still innocent to me, because what kind of crime is that really? That's abusing an innocent person.
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by centurion1211
The people that need to "pay the price" are the ones who victimized their fellow humans by being so cavalier about how easily and frequently our "land of the free" infringes on the rights of, and seizes the freedoms of those fellow humans.
How do you make that happen? I dunno...you first have to identify who those people are. Certainly, police and judges are culpable. Not to mention lawmakers, and the lobbyists that created the prison industry to begin with. And the prosecutors who just want to keep their job by driving statistics, thus putting people in prison for victimless and arbitrary crimes.
But what about The People? You and I? Have we not provided support in this march towards the most imprisoned nation in the world? If not direct support, then indirect via silent acquiescence?
Regardless, the answer is not to continue victimizing people. If someone is only guilty of a victimless crime, and yet has to become tougher to survive, is it the just thing to do to hold that against him? It is a system that WE have created. It is time it be deconstructed.
The only other option is to continue to imprison more people than any other nation in the world. And that is shameful.
One quote keeps coming to mind for me here, although it is applied here in a way that we normally would not think:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson"
In this case, the tyrants (The People) can become the patriots. And if it creates a surge in violent crime, such is the price we pay for a return towards liberty. That kind of thing tends to happen when liberty goes on the march, even when we are just 'righting the ship".
It is time that we as Americans decide that we are willing to put our money where our mouth is. If we want change, we are going to have to go through the discomforts that will come with that change. Without that willingness we end up just like with TARP....broke as hell, and just kicking the can down the road. That is not justice, nor liberty.
Again, they went to prison for doing something they knew was considered illegal even if they believed it shouldn't have been.
Originally posted by Becoming
Lets punish all our non violent drug offenders like some of these other countries who have low prison population.
They are executed.
Most of those countries also have low drug related crimes also.
That would solve the prison population and drug problem all at the same time. We certainly don't need to release them just because to many people are breaking the law.