A Message to the Military and Law Enforcement

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posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by jplaysguitar
 


Oh? How? because some guy on the internet thinks he can tell me how to live my life and how I should choose to serve my country?

Do you have anything of interest to add to the thread or is this now about bashing me personally?




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


I have a chip on my shoulder?

Let's see the way you've addressed me in this entire thread from post one shall we?



Wow, doubletalk must be the first thing they teach you when you enlist.




And also, isnt this response just proving the previous poster right? Its pretty much the defintion of mindless zombie.


Yeah...

I've got a chip on my shoulder alright. It's the fact that you can't address me in any respectful way, and anything I reply with you get defensive about and start name calling.

Cute.





Well if you are going to blatantly contradict yourself within 3 posts you should expect people to call you out on it.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 

forgive me i just like alittle back and forth banter and like to chime in here and there . just for funsys and trying to lighten the mood.,. yeah i said fun-sees



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


And exactly how would you normally react to the "You're all baby-killers" crowd if you were in my shoes?

Secondly, what contradiction?
edit on 24-5-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I am always surprised by the amount of people that on one hand denounce military members as zombies because they aren't taking action and on the other completely ignore the fact that they are just as capable of purchasing a firearm and overthrowing the government themselves.

It isn't enough that we fight, bleed, and die for them. No, we must also accomplish their personal political goals while at the same time operating only as they approve while we are branded an arm of a fascist/totalitarian regime.

The double think only exists in their own cowardice where there is no true struggle to attain anything. Better to sit at the computer and announce their butt-hurt then to take their destinies, their lives, into their hands and free themselves from the chains they see around them.
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


And exactly how would you normally react to the "You're all baby-killers" crowd if you were in my shoes?

Secondly, what contradiction?
edit on 24-5-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)


Well, if the shoe fits.....

Listen, I hate to call the military members out. But when you are in a different country shooting people in their homeland, Im not sure how anyone can claim it is self defense - its like going to the criminals house and shooting him, then claiming castle doctrine. If you were in America fighting invading Chinese, you think I would be against the military?

Anyone who supports the war machine at this point is complicit in the crimes it is committing, You cant use the "I was just following orders" defense, because that one didnt fly in Nuremburg for the Nazis. Sorry, I wish I could say we are fighting an honorable war, but I dont think it is so.

You contradicted yourself by first saying "I do not have to obey an illegal order" and then in your next post say "Hey, im just following orders, blame the politicians!" You cant have it both ways.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Anyone who supports the war machine at this point is complicit in the crimes it is committing, You cant use the "I was just following orders" defense, because that one didnt fly in Nuremburg for the Nazis. Sorry, I wish I could say we are fighting an honorable war, but I dont think it is so.


Well, if you are an American Citizen or Legal Alien in my country, you are also contributing to the war-machine and are also complicit. So, now if that ball is in your court, why do you do nothing and support the very war-machine you detest?
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
reply to post by projectvxn
 


I am always surprised by the amount of people that on one hand denounce military members as zombies because they aren't taking action and on the other completely ignore the fact that they are just as capable of purchasing a firearm and overthrowing the government themselves.


Oh boy, here we go. So, if this happened, who would be defending Washington and putting down the rebellion? Maybe uh the military? Before you say the military wont fire on American citizens, it has happened multiple times in our past. Learn2history.


Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
It isn't enough that we fight, bleed, and die for them. No, we must also accomplish their personal political goals while at the same time operating only as they approve while we are branded an arm of a fascist/totalitarian regime.


Theres that superiority thing again. You volunteered for it, now you are going to bellyache about your sacrifice? Your like the old lady in church who makes sure everyone knows she put the most in the collection plate.


Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
The double think only exists in their own cowardice where there is no true struggle to attain anything. Better to sit at the computer and announce their butt-hurt then to take their destinies, their lives, into their hands and free themselves from the chains they see around them.
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)


Yes, because we can just waltz into Washington with our shotguns and pitchforks and tell the politicians to hit the bricks. If the revolt is damn easy, how come you military boys arent all over it, you have all the hardware!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by AdAbsurdum

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Anyone who supports the war machine at this point is complicit in the crimes it is committing, You cant use the "I was just following orders" defense, because that one didnt fly in Nuremburg for the Nazis. Sorry, I wish I could say we are fighting an honorable war, but I dont think it is so.


Well, if you are an American Citizen or Legal Alien in my country, you are also contributing to the war-machine and are also complicit. So, now if that ball is in your court, why do you do nothing and support the very war-machine you detest?
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)


Please tell me how you come to that conclusion? Because I live here? At least Im not out with gun bullying people around and enforcing the will of the banksters. How do you know that I do nothing? Just speaking out about it here is 10 times more than you are doing.

What are you going to say next, love it or leave it? Is constant war the only possible answer?
edit on 24-5-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Oh boy, here we go. So, if this happened, who would be defending Washington and putting down the rebellion? Maybe uh the military? Before you say the military wont fire on American citizens, it has happened multiple times in our past. Learn2history.


I don't know what would happen, could happen that way or the military could split and we have another civil war. But, it doesn't matter because my point is we will never find out because no one who complains is willing to take action.


Theres that superiority thing again. You volunteered for it, now you are going to bellyache about your sacrifice? Your like the old lady in church who makes sure everyone knows she put the most in the collection plate.


I am sorry that my willingness to sacrifice my life for my principles makes you feel inferior. I am not belly aching because I am willing, I am laughing at the outright cowardice and mediocrity.


Yes, because we can just waltz into Washington with our shotguns and pitchforks and tell the politicians to hit the bricks. If the revolt is damn easy, how come you military boys arent all over it, you have all the hardware!


Actually, yes you can you just choose not to. As far as why the military doesn't act, I don't speak for the entire armed forces so I can only speculate.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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This post is being derailed please keep it on topic.

I sometimes question why I defend people who dislike our military. I have to remember that people were born free and that one man can share an idea with another. It's when one man has an idea and forces it on another is when there is a problem. It takes a bigger man to see both sides of the coin and weigh the facts to make a sound judgement.

I made the choice to defend the freedoms and liberties of my fellow americans which I have been seeing slowly eroded away by fear and propaganda. There is a reason why most vets are placed on a watch list and it's because we don't like what we see when we come back home.

Do I feel that america should defend it's own hell yea. Should we defend our national interests abroad, depends on what they are. Do we rush into things with out thinking them through. Seems to be the sign of the times. Should we keep bases oversea, you betcha. If we didn't have bases overseas then the defence of america would be hampered.

I think what people also fail to realise is that less then 1% of the U.S. population currently serves and that 9% have served. If we didn't have a military as well armed and trained as ours then you would be slaves to some other foreign country. Your freedoms ( what little is left) would be ablolished and you would be more of a slave then you are now.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Please tell me how you come to that conclusion? Because I live here? At least Im not out with gun bullying people around and enforcing the will of the banksters. How do you know that I do nothing? Just speaking out about it here is 10 times more than you are doing.


Because you participate in the system that allows this to take place. Even if you don't pay income tax, the fact that you have to consume to live puts money in the government's coffers. So while it is a very small contribution it is a contribution nonetheless. You can move the goal posts and moralize the issue for specific circumstance but the fact of the matter is you still contribute.


What are you going to say next, love it or leave it? Is constant war the only possible answer?
edit on 24-5-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)


Apparently you have me confused for a Republican...
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Stalker619
This post is being derailed please keep it on topic.

I sometimes question why I defend people who dislike our military. I have to remember that people were born free and that one man can share an idea with another. It's when one man has an idea and forces it on another is when there is a problem. It takes a bigger man to see both sides of the coin and weigh the facts to make a sound judgement.

I made the choice to defend the freedoms and liberties of my fellow americans which I have been seeing slowly eroded away by fear and propaganda. There is a reason why most vets are placed on a watch list and it's because we don't like what we see when we come back home.

Do I feel that america should defend it's own hell yea. Should we defend our national interests abroad, depends on what they are. Do we rush into things with out thinking them through. Seems to be the sign of the times. Should we keep bases oversea, you betcha. If we didn't have bases overseas then the defence of america would be hampered.

I think what people also fail to realise is that less then 1% of the U.S. population currently serves and that 9% have served. If we didn't have a military as well armed and trained as ours then you would be slaves to some other foreign country. Your freedoms ( what little is left) would be ablolished and you would be more of a slave then you are now.


So, if 10% of our population wasnt military, we would be slaves? What about a country like New Zealand, which has very few armed forces....who has enslaved them? Sweden spends a fraction of what we do on arms, but have the Norwegians invaded and enslaved them? Seriously, who would be enslaving the US more than the banksters that order around the military and profit off of blood?

Its really tough to break through the indoctrination.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Let me ask you something:

1 What kind of military would we or anyone have if the orders of commanding officers were routinely disobeyed?

2 What kind of country would this be if we didn't have civilian control of the military?

3 Why is it that you target the military for your hatred instead of the people who command it's power?



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by AdAbsurdum

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Please tell me how you come to that conclusion? Because I live here? At least Im not out with gun bullying people around and enforcing the will of the banksters. How do you know that I do nothing? Just speaking out about it here is 10 times more than you are doing.


Because you participate in the system that allows this to take place. Even if you don't pay income tax, the fact that you have to consume to live puts money in the government's coffers. So while it is a very small contribution it is a contribution nonetheless. You can move the goal posts and moralize the issue for specific circumstance but the fact of the matter is you still contribute.


What are you going to say next, love it or leave it? Is constant war the only possible answer?
edit on 24-5-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)


Apparently you have me confused for a Republican...
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)


If youre argument is that everyone who lives here is complicit, I believe that you are falling to "blame the victim" syndrome. As said before, when Americans try to peacably assemble, they are usually violently broken up by police and army.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by stephinrazin
 


That was a gut wrenching video; damn good find and although I have seen similar, this is up there as one of the best!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Uh yes, every single American Citizen is complicit. This is a representative republic, our government represents the people. If the government no longer represents our interests and we can not solve our problems using our political, judicial, etc processes than it is your responsibility as a US citizen to throw off that government.

Because that hasn't happened we can deduce a few things:

1) This is the nation that the people want and the government accurately reflects and represents their constituents

2) This governing body does not and the people are just too afraid or complacent

3) No one is aware of the current situation and so are too ignorant to know they must act

We could probably brainstorm some more.

As for you being a victim; No, Afghanis are victims, you are a co-conspirator.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Let me ask you something:

1 What kind of military would we or anyone have if the orders of commanding officers were routinely disobeyed?

2 What kind of country would this be if we didn't have civilian control of the military?

3 Why is it that you target the military for your hatred instead of the people who command it's power?


1) This is a straw man argument. It assumes that orders would be disobeyed because they are orders, not illegal orders. IT IS YOUR DUTY TO REFUSE AN ILLEGAL ORDER. PERIOD. Instead, we got guys covering up and lying for each other. Is this honorable?

2) Is there civilian control of the military? as far as I know, the commander in chief can give an order at any time, with or without congress, and attack anyone on the planet apparently. civilian control would mean we have a say in what happens. if there was civilian control, would there even be an overseas war right now? I dont know that many people who are all gung-ho about it. our guys dont want to be over there in the desert, their wives dont want them to be there, the american citizens at home are sick of it, but yet they remain overseas, and you claim we have civvie control?

3) I dont know how many times I have to answer this. Maybe if the military would stop protecting the people giving the illegal orders, and doing their dirty work, people wouldnt be opposed to the military. Stop being their shield and the point of their spear, and you will stop feeling the backlash.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by AdAbsurdum
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Uh yes, every single American Citizen is complicit. This is a representative republic, our government represents the people. If the government no longer represents our interests and we can not solve our problems using our political, judicial, etc processes than it is your responsibility as a US citizen to throw off that government.

Because that hasn't happened we can deduce a few things:

1) This is the nation that the people want and the government accurately reflects and represents their constituents

2) This governing body does not and the people are just too afraid or complacent

3) No one is aware of the current situation and so are too ignorant to know they must act

We could probably brainstorm some more.

As for you being a victim; No, Afghanis are victims, you are a co-conspirator.


Well like I said brother, at least I aint holding a gun in a foreign land. Why would you say the man who is in the US watching TV is the same as the man pushing the button on a missile strike? Can hardly be compared, as badly as you want to make your point.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Well like I said brother, at least I aint holding a gun in a foreign land. Why would you say the man who is in the US watching TV is the same as the man pushing the button on a missile strike? Can hardly be compared, as badly as you want to make your point.


Right, you have to move the goal posts so you don't have to take responsibility for your nation's actions. That was vxn's point in the beginning. You have just proved what he and I have been saying.

But don't worry, I completely understand after all I am one of those rough man standing by to do violence on your behalf. It is not my prerogative to convince you that the act is moral only to ensure that you can still openly complain as you are doing now. As long as you can still openly hate us I rest assured that I have done nothing wrong.
edit on 24-5-2011 by AdAbsurdum because: (no reason given)






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