It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Has the seventh seal of Revelations been opened?

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 23 2011 @ 06:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by markosity1973
 


WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Why do you keep making these threads???

The FIRST seal hasn't been opened yet!!!




How do you know ?


Bizcuz the first seal is the rider on the white horse, the antichrist.

He hasn't been revealed yet.

Heck, the rapture has not even happened yet. That's Revelation 4:1 before any seals are even opened. In the beginning of Revelation Jesus says the "candlesticks" are the churches. In 4:1 when the scroll is given to Jesus and before the first seal is opened the candlesticks are in the throne room of heaven.




posted on May, 23 2011 @ 06:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 



ranting as usual about your bullsh!t


LOL!

I rather enjoyed your rant.

Kindly share which fallacy of logic I committed in my post, k thx.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 07:39 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Logical fallacy #1:

which is quite amazing considering you never met me before I was born again.


You were born once.

Logical fallacy #2:

I certainly DO KNOW.


No, you don't.

Logical fallacy #3:

You know, it's a shame you haven't found the joy that surpasses all things like those of us who have been born again by the Holy Spirit. It's sad, I wish everyone could experience this joy and freedom, to not fear death, to be completely free in Jesus Christ.


Yeah, it really must be a shame that I abandoned such a ridiculous belief. I certainly don't fear death. I would never want to live on this planet forever while people like you are still around. I'd rather live my life and die to escape this pathetic planet and the pathetic beliefs that people impose onto others.

Logical fallacy #4:

Secondly, anyone who has an elementary understanding of fallacies of logic knows that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". But I'm sure you knew that since you stated earlier that you "have logic".


Oh, so that justifies your belief and automatically turns it into a fact? You're telling me that all claims that have not been disproved are automatically factual because there is no evidence of absence, but you're wrong. Your claim is NOT a fact until it is proven. Logical fallacy 101.

Logical fallacy #5:

Because you've personally verified all claims since the time of Christ.

I thought you claimed "logic" earlier. There is no way you or anyone else could study every claim "ever" made.


No. I have never verified every claim and I never will (neither will you). I was talking about religious claims, not all claims in general. Are you always this ignorant?


If you have absolutely nothing legitimate to say, you're wasting my time. You believe things without evidence while I continue to actually analyze things to find evidence and determine whether they're true or not. Honesty goes a long way when it comes to truth and fiction. I haven't seen any honesty from you at all throughout this entire argument. If you think you're such a good little christian, then do what your little book says and stop lying when your claims are challenged. Do you have what it takes to overcome your compulsive lying? Let's see how logical you can be.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:49 AM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 



Honesty goes a long way when it comes to truth and fiction. I haven't seen any honesty from you at all throughout this entire argument. If you think you're such a good little christian, then do what your little book says and stop lying when your claims are challenged. Do you have what it takes to overcome your compulsive lying?


You have not linked any FALLACIES of logic, you're just copy/pasting my post and giving your personal opinions and bigoted hatred. You can look at the common fallacies of logic and actually link some.

You can't call someone a "liar" simply because your bigoted towards Christians. You have never met me. You do not know the life I've left behind with the power of Jesus Christ. My life is 180 degrees transformed fundamentally from my old life. You cannot come here and call someone a "liar" or tell me I'm "lying" because you just don't believe and u hate Christianity/Christians. You don't know anything about me to claim I'm being deceitful, either how my life was before it was transformed by the love of Christ, or how it is now serving the Lord.

Your experiences are not everyone's experiences. Testimony after testimony after testimony is available to read online. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, or whether you experience it or not, or whether you overcome your hatred or not, the truth of the matter is Jesus Christ has changed my life! And the lives of millions of others.

If that burns you up with hatred that's not our problem, that's something you need to deal with. But don't expect us who Jesus has changed to not shout it from the rooftops and give Him all the glory and praise!


edit on 23-5-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 12:45 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You still haven't proven that your jesus and god exist. You have taken my response entirely out of context, which is yet another dishonest move on your part. I did list logical fallacies. What, you want me to list them without quoting you so you can just dismiss them and claim you've never said such things? You're full of it. You just lied in your response (again) and then you lied again by denying it. Tell me - what do you think about Krishna? Do you think Hindus are lying when they claim their Krishna figure existed and performed what they consider miracles? If so, why do you think they're lying and you're not? You don't know what it's like to be a Hindu or muslim because you're neither of those. You have no justification for dismissing other myths while accepting a myth of your own at the same time. You're a hypocrite and a liar if you think your religion is "the only correct one!". You have no more evidence for your myth than any other religion has for its myth. Once again, you have failed to justify your argument.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 02:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You still haven't proven that your jesus and god exist.


I don't have to "prove" their existence. Your belief or unbelief of their existence had nothing to do with the 180 degree change in my life by the blood of Christ and his transforming influence of the Holy Spirit. The Lord radically changed my life for the better and gave me great joy and peace and your unbelief in His existence never crossed my mind once.

Furthermore, I especially don't have to "prove" God exists in threads in the "Religion, Faith, and Theology" forum where unless God's existence is specifically called into question in the topic/title of the thread it's assumed for the sake of argument that God does in fact exist. (It's in the OP of the stickied thread "ALL MEMBERS READ - Moving Past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic") Here is the relevant part in question from the super moderator of this forum:


"Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God. Does God really exist? While this is a worthwhile topic many members wish to move past this introductory theme, past Religion 101, and would like to dive into deeper topic of religion and faith. Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not.

If you have questions that deal with the existence of God or want to ask if Mohammed actually was a real person or a myth, then please start a new discussion with a meaningful, appropriate title and you may then dominate a new discussion with this theme in mind. Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being. Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.


"ALL MEMBERS READ - Moving past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic" Abovetopsecret.com



You have taken my response entirely out of context, which is yet another dishonest move on your part. I did list logical fallacies.


No, it's not "dishonest", you only claimed there were fallacies and attributed #numbers to your claims without stating which fallacy was committed. You can try again, I even listed the most common fallacies of logic. When you claim a person has used a logical fallacy you need to state for example: "Straw man fallacy", "Appeal to ridicule", et cetra.

You should know this as a person who claimed previously to have"logic".


What, you want me to list them without quoting you so you can just dismiss them and claim you've never said such things?


Simply identifying which fallacy that was committed would suffice. I've linked a list of them for you to read up on.



You're full of it.


Arbitrary.



You just lied in your response (again) and then you lied again by denying it.


Are you high? I've not stated any lies, what are you smoking? lol



Tell me - what do you think about Krishna? Do you think Hindus are lying when they claim their Krishna figure existed and performed what they consider miracles?


Not at all, demons have the ability to name themselves anything they want to, and they have authority to manifest themselves to anyone who have given them access or a stronghold into their life. it's commonly called an "entry". I don't doubt for a second that an entity that calls itself "Krishna" exists and manifests himself to Hindus.


If so, why do you think they're lying and you're not?


I don't think they are lying. I never said I do think they are lying about seeing an entity that names itself "Krishna" and manifests itself to them with signs and or wonders. You claimed I do, yet you just asked me in the last sentence and this is my first response. Why are you claiming that I think "they are lying" when I've never responded on the subject of Krishna and Hindus to you or anyone else here before? Are you in your right frame of mind?



You don't know what it's like to be a Hindu or muslim because you're neither of those.


I know, I've not claimed I know what it's like to be a Hindu either, or a Muslim for that matter. Are you having a conversation with an imaginary person named "NOTurTypical" also somewhere either in your . or on another website? Are you okay?


You have no justification for dismissing other myths while accepting a myth of your own at the same time.


I haven't dismissed any Hindu's claims. I DO think they see/experience manifestations of an entity named "Krishna". And for that matter, even if I did dismiss others claims without justification why would that be a problem for you? You've spent 2 pages dismissing my claims without justification or knowing who I had been before being born again by the Holy Spirit. You've never met me, nor do you know me now. You're a random on the internet. So why would it be wrong in your opinion to dismiss another's claims without justification? You have no issues whatsoever doing it.


You're a hypocrite and a liar if you think your religion is "the only correct one!".


I hate religion, I don't think any "religion" is correct. In your free time you may want to view the video in my signature titled "Do You HATE Religion as Much as I Do?". You don't even know what your talking about 905 of the time. You've already lost points on the previous page for exploding in a rant that violated the Manners and Decorum for this website. Relax the hatred and bigotry, I'm wondering if your having issues differentiating between reality and fantasy. You may want to inquire about professional help, just a suggestion.



You have no more evidence for your myth than any other religion has for its myth.


Do you know for a fact what evidence I have? How could you know what I have experienced and what I have not experienced? How could you know how my life has changed or not changed in all the years since I was saved and born again? You're talking out of your backside, you don't know me whatsoever, you don't know who I was 10 years ago, you don't know me now other than an avatar of a website.


Once again, you have failed to justify your argument.


I can never justify to you that my life has changed by the power of Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit. It's absurd to think anyone could justify their experience to you. You're not me, and I'm almost certain you never will be me.
How can i justify to you that my life is completely changed from what it had been a decade ago till today?

if you can think of a way then please let us all know what it is!!!





edit on 23-5-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Demons? You've got to be kidding me. Any evidence that those exist? You just keep piling up one unproven assertion after another. Whether you believe it or not, your belief system IS a religion. You are religious whether you accept that fact or not.

I numbered the fallacies and I don't need a labeled list from you. I know all about the many different kinds of fallacies, many of which are committed by believers like you in every argument. I'll tell you exactly which fallacies you have committed.

Straw man fallacy; Argument from faith; Argument from personal experience; Bare assertion fallacy; Argument from biblical miracles (events that have never been verified to be actual miracles); Emotional plea; Last but not least - argument from personal revelation.

I'm sure there's more, but those are the main fallacies you have committed. I already numbered and listed just a few of them in a previous response. What's your excuse this time? Probably the same damn thing as usual. Let's see what kind of inane excuses you have to offer.

Oh, I forgot one. It's called an argument from divine sense. You don't think your belief requires any external justification, even when I ask for justification and evidence. You seem to have the "My god is real for me, and that's all that matters." attitude.
edit on 5/23/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Demons? You've got to be kidding me. Any evidence that those exist? You just keep piling up one unproven assertion after another. Whether you believe it or not, your belief system IS a religion. You are religious whether you accept that fact or not.


The testimonies from people who have been freed from demonic influences are quite abundant. A simple search will net you massive amounts for you to read.

And no, I can't stand religion, and the Christian version is the most repulsive of all. Religion is a list of do's and don't do's to justify oneself to God and get Him to favor you. That's disgusting. God already loses all of us and displayed Him love for us by entering His creation and dying for us all while we were all yet His sworn enemies. Christianity is about "REDEMPTION", not "religion". The two are complete opposites. Religion is all about what I need to do for God to love me, redemption is all about what Jesus did for me and there is nothing for me to do but trust Him that He did everything.

Jesus was most likely the most anti-religious person to ever walk the Earth.


I numbered the fallacies and I don't need a labeled list from you. I know all about the many different kinds of fallacies, many of which are committed by believers like you in every argument. I'll tell you exactly which fallacies you have committed.

Straw man fallacy; Argument from faith; Argument from personal experience; Bare assertion fallacy; Argument from biblical miracles (events that have never been verified to be actual miracles); Emotional plea; Last but not least - argument from personal revelation.


LOL! You just made up a random list of fallacies off the top of your .. Good job.
I've not made a bare assertion anywhere in this thread, and argument from personal revelation has to do with the existence of God and or Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with telling you the experience of my personal life and it's changes! Moreover, if you want to include argument from personal experience then you couldn't argue about YOUR personal experiences which you have done!

This is epic in it pricelessness!!!!

lol:


I'm sure there's more, but those are the main fallacies you have committed. I already numbered and listed just a few of them in a previous response. What's your excuse this time? Probably the same damn thing as usual. Let's see what kind of inane excuses you have to offer.


You didn't point any out, you made up random numbers, then now have just listed random fallacies off the top of your .. Even starting with the first example I gave you, the "straw man fallacy".

Admit it, you don't have a clue what a fallacy of logic is do you? Would you care to copy/paste my fallacious argument and identify it from known fallacies of logic for us all? As of now your just repeating ad nauseum the same baseless charges as if the more you claim them the more real and substantial they are.




posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:24 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Moreover, if you want to include argument from personal experience then you couldn't argue about YOUR personal experiences which you have done!


Really? I argued about personal experiences? Oh, you mean my "personal experiences" about the Greek gods? I was mocking you and showing the inconsistency in your argument. You're quite the gullible one.


You just made up a random list of fallacies off the top of your ..


Nope. That's a bare assertion fallacy itself.

wiki.ironchariots.org...

See all of those at the bottom? Yeah, nice try, liar. You accuse and fail again, as usual.


Admit it, you don't have a clue what a fallacy of logic is do you? Would you care to copy/paste my fallacious argument and identify it from known fallacies of logic for us all? As of now your just repeating ad nauseum the same baseless charges as if the more you claim them the more real and substantial they are.


You have much to learn about logic and the fallacies that exist within it. You made even more logical fallacies in all of the "rebuttals" you had in the quotes I posted above. Keep laughing while you can. You're the one who is claiming that a dead prophet influences your life via magic and divine instances, therefore the burden of proof is on you. You either prove it or stop asserting it until you can prove it.

wiki.ironchariots.org...


You didn't point any out, you made up random numbers


1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are random numbers? Even when used in proper order to assess something? Your logic is much worse than I thought. 4,567,767; 2; 30,008; 66. There's random numbers for you. Have fun refuting that one.





edit on 5/23/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 


Yes, you argued about your personal experience in this matter. Since you don't remember here you are claiming you left the belief:


"Yeah, it really must be a shame that I abandoned such a ridiculous belief."


So yes, you've made arguments from your personal experience. Pot, meet kettle.



Dead prophet


This isn't about Muhammad, as I said before the garden tomb is still empty to this day.

Be mad! Get mad enough they mods have to delete another rage-filled rant.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:34 PM
link   
Does it burn you up that every time I post you have to view the cross?




posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:38 PM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 


From your link:


The argument from personal experience is an argument for God's existence on the basis of a personal religious experience.


As I said a few times, I have not been arguing for God's existence in this thread. And furthermore, I pointed out in the forum it assumed for sake of argument that God does exist. (I know that royally tees you off, lawl!) So why would I need to even argue for His existence in a place where it's assumed He exists already?



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 03:53 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Not so much an argument from personal experience as you have made when you claimed that it's shameful that others don't have the "joy of jesus" in their lives.

So, the tomb is empty, therefore jesus is real? That's another fallacy. A baseless claim for which there is absolutely no evidence to support. All you've done is assume one thing after another. You fail to consider the possibility that his body was stolen by someone else. You disregard all other possibilities and automatically assume that he is real just because his body is missing.


Be mad!


You're not worth getting mad about. You want me to be mad? I'm rolling in laughter because of your ridiculous arguments. I don't know how much worse they can get.


Does it burn you up that every time I post you have to view the cross?


In your dreams. Your little cross is not even remotely powerful enough to affect me negatively.


So why would I need to even argue for His existence in a place where it's assumed He exists already?


Assumptions without justification and without evidence to support are usually arguments. If you believe that your jesus is also your god, then you have been making an argument for the existence of both, which certainly means you have been making an argument for the existence of your god.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 04:26 PM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 



You fail to consider the possibility that his body was stolen by someone else.


That's a possibility, but hardly probable in the least. The Romans and Pharisees were guarding against a theft of the body. And hostile sources also attest to the grave being empty. And to this day it is still empty. Then there is the testimony of all of His 11 disciples. None of which recanted the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, and appeared to them all in bodily form several times before His ascension. And all of them other than John died terribly torturous deaths as martyrs when all they had to do was claim it never happened or wasn't true. none of them did.

This fact alone led to the conversion of His half-brothers James and Jude. It would take some considerable evidence *cougharaisedChristcough* for a devout Jew to claim his half-brother was God in the flesh. You have the conversion of Saul of Tarsus, someone who hated Christians and who hunted them and lied about them in court to have them murdered. He did a 180 and became an apostle to the gentiles after meeting Christ on the road to Damascus.

But yeah, it's possible someone stole the body. LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!


You're not worth getting mad about. You want me to be mad? I'm rolling in laughter because of your ridiculous arguments. I don't know how much worse they can get.


Yes, you're mad, in fact you got so mad your hate-filled bigoted rant on the last page was removed for Manners and Decorum violation. (There, I just gave that removed rant a star for you! )

Epic.


Assumptions without justification and without evidence to support are usually arguments. If you believe that your jesus is also your god, then you have been making an argument for the existence of both, which certainly means you have been making an argument for the existence of your god.


Why would I need to make an argument for the existence of God when it's already assumed in this forum He exists? Two pages late, all those rants and cries and base-less claims and guess what??

My life is STILL radically changed for the better by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit which He promised to all who are born again. It's still fundamentally changed in all aspects and I love it that not only has Jesus kept His word, but He has replaced the filth with unparalleled joy!!!

Anything else to add?




edit on 23-5-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 04:34 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Yes, you're mad


Oh yeah? Time to prove it, Mr. Know-it-all who thinks he knows exactly how I'm feeling merely because he believes that I'm mad, all based on a flawed perception that is not supported by evidence.


My life is STILL radically changed for the better by the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit which He promised to all who are born again. It's still fundamentally changed in all aspects and I love it that not only has Jesus kept His word, but He has replaced the filth with unparalleled joy!!!

Anything else to add?


Yeah, one more thing. My life is still radically changed for the better by logic and reasoning after abandoning an irrational belief system and choosing knowledge instead of beliefs. The filth of irrational beliefs in my life was replaced with reason, which led to unparalleled joy that was absent prior to the acceptance of reason. You're done.



Oh yeah. Makes perfect sense!


edit on 5/23/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 04:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 



Oh yeah? Time to prove it,


I don't need to "prove it". It's a permanent fixture of this thread.

See: Last post, page 2.

Your hate-filled rant of anti-Christian bigotry was deleted by the mods for violation of "Manners and Decorum".



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 05:05 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Ah, I see how it is. My post was removed (probably merely because it contained a profane word and a reference to a praying person being an idiot), therefore I was mad. Such an ingenious observation. Would you care to explain how my post proves that I was mad? Do you have photographs of my facial expressions from that moment? Is there any statement throughout the entire post that implies I was mad? Show me this amazing evidence so I can believe the exact opposite of what is actually true about my feelings at that time.


Your hate-filled rant of anti-Christian bigotry


Sure, christian, sure. We all know that you're a good little boy/girl who follows such a "perfect" doctrine, despite all of the references to the mass murder of unbelievers, homosexuals, non-christians, "sinners", paganists and polytheists in general, and also the endorsement of slavery, rape and forcing unwilling women of their enemy tribes to become their enslaved wives. Your bible couldn't possibly be hate-filled and bigoted, right? All of those atrocities somehow just don't count... Not! You're a hypocritical bigot and you've demonstrated it with your nonsensical and contradictory argument. Didn't I say that you were done? I guess you have more to spew. Let it all out so this argument can finally end. You're running out of fallacies to commit (except when you commit the same ones multiple times) and I might just have to actually make some up off the top of my .!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Condemned0625
 


All that rambling tripe and guess what?

I'm still redeemed, still blood-bought, and still filled with the Holy Spirit!

And my life is STILL radically changed by the power of Jesus Christ!!!




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 05:33 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The main reason I started this thread was to open debate on where we are in the scheme of things and to get people thinking and talking about the future and what may happen. Too many people are walking around with their .s in the sand and pretending that 'all is well' when it is not. In fact denial is probably mankind's greatest triumph - it is a deep rooted part of our psychology that satisfies this need for us to believe that what is going on in our brains is actual reality even when the facts shouting at us can be telling a totally different story.

What I am trying to get people to do is open their eyes and read the signs around them and realise that just because a kook called a false date for the rapture that it doesn't mean we all go back to what we were doing.

We are .ing into very dangerous times on this planet and people need to be awakened and prepared, especially spiritually. I am not suggesting any dates that rapture or anything else will happen. That is just mere foolishness and idiocy. But you can see that there are things going on out in the real world have been predicted in the good book.

2011 has been a record year for natural disasters and it just isn't letting up. Just because you, I or anyone else am sitting safe and sound in our homes does not mean that we are not in danger. Look at the people of Japan, Christchurch, the Southwestern States of the USA to name but a few places that have been afflicted this year. For all of these people, disaster has come like a thief in the night and for those that do not have faith, the psychological effects are just devastating.

Let's face it, modern society has killed off the concept of hell and damnation, it is just too medieval and plain nasty for all of us to want to believe in. After all, we are a modern developed society that has progressed on aren't we? And as for Jesus, well to a modern secular society he has little more relevance than Santa or the easter bunny. So if I were to spruik hell and damnation, you would just get a bunch of atheists telling me how ridiculous the concept is and how religion invented it to 'control the masses through fear'

So, my friend in Christ, what I am doing is being crafty and trying to get people talking about and studying the bible by using parts of it that people find interesting. Revelation is one of those books that would make a great sci-fi movie and therefore is of interest to a broader base of people. After all, as I myself have found, if you find one part of the bible interesting and believable then you find another and another and another and before you know it, you have found Jesus in the most unexpected way.

edit on 24-5-2011 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 07:38 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You know what else? I'm still living my life by logic and reason. I'm still not convinced that your jebus exists because there is no evidence. You'll have to do much better than that if you want to convince skeptics that he exists. You still haven't answered my questions. Are you trying to avoid them because you know you have no evidence to prove your accusation? Step up and prove it like a real human.

Your arguments are absolutely terrible. I would expect more from a child. That's how poor your logic is. It seems that all you can do now is resort to your dishonest claims and babble about something that I don't give a damn about. If you can't prove that I was mad and that your jebus exists, you have lost. Game over.
edit on 5/24/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join