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Seriously, is there any logical argument against gay marriage?

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posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by quietlearner
this is what I have been trying to say all along
gays can have all the rights they want but it's just not the same and should not be called the same
to think otherwise is delusional


Uh NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Separate but equal has been tried before. NEVER EVER EVER should that be acceptable for any reason. It is 100% unacceptable.

I don't care that God believers think they own the word Marriage - - - they Don't.

"Marriage License" is a legal government document. This is a secular government.




posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Annee


Uh NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Separate but equal has been tried before. NEVER EVER EVER should that be acceptable for any reason. It is 100% unacceptable.

I don't care that God believers think they own the word Marriage - - - they Don't.

"Marriage License" is a legal government document. This is a secular government.





I'm not religious so to me its not about what the bible said
since the original topic of this thread was logic
I will present an argument in logical form
1. the union of a woman and a man is not the same as a union between same sex partners
2. there are two different types of unions
3. different things are by definition not the same

therefore it is not the same and should not be called the same

imo you can have the rights but trying to make two different things the same is to me illogical
I say have the rights but dont call it the same since it is not



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by quietlearner
 




I'm not religious so to me its not about what the bible said
since the original topic of this thread was logic
I will present an argument in logical form
1. the union of a woman and a man is not the same as a union between same sex partners
2. there are two different types of unions
3. different things are by definition not the same

therefore it is not the same and should not be called the same

imo you can have the rights but trying to make two different things the same is to me illogical
I say have the rights but dont call it the same since it is not


Yes, great post, and good to see someone who understands logic entering the fray.

It's not so hard, it's not radical, at all. They are different things. Recognizing this in no way implies that the other is being denigrated. Denying this, saying they are "the same", isn't logical, and it makes you wonder why this "sameness" is so important, that logic ends up so easily thrown out the window.

JR





edit on 22-5-2011 by JR MacBeth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by JR MacBeth


Yes, great post, and good to see someone who understands logic entering the fray.

It's not so hard, it's not radical, at all. They are different things. Recognizing this in no way implies that the other is being denigrated. Denying this, saying they are "the same", isn't logical, and it makes you wonder why this "sameness" is so important, that logic ends up so easily thrown out the window.

JR





edit on 22-5-2011 by JR MacBeth because: (no reason given)


I agree its very simple and I dont know why there is so much importance in making gay unions the one and the same as traditional marriage, I think this is illogical and delusional and is probably hurting the gay movement more than helping.
Call it something else and enjoy all the rights of marriage a live the way you want or try to push onto society a logically flawed and "feeling" based change.
To me the right choice seems clear
edit on 22-5-2011 by quietlearner because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by quietlearner

1. the union of a woman and a man is not the same as a union between same sex partners


Why isn't it - - today - - in this modern world?


2. there are two different types of unions


Which are?


3. different things are by definition not the same


Which means what?


therefore it is not the same and should not be called the same


That is an excuse.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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Can you all just give me a break please, this thread and most of the responses are making me feel ill. At the end of the day, same sex couples have no claim to the WORD marriage. Ive made other posts within this thread as to why and nobody can answer them.

Do yourselves and everyone else a favor and stop pushing this poorly thought out half assed agenda about raping the word marriage.

I have noticed that this push is not intended to get the same rights as everyone else, it is an agenda against religion in general because you feel scorned you are wholly rejected. Get over it and continue living your life with a civil union performed by the state that affords you all of the same misery the rest of us have in marriage.

If I have to completely dismantle every single argument in this thread in favor of gay marriage I will because it's disturbing how much attention your group seems to need just to be "yourselves".

Your entitled to nothing, you need not garner any special attention for your sexual preference which nobody else cares about and just wishes you kept it behind closed doors like everyone else who has a sexual preference does. Kiss in public, hold hands, hell, have a civil union, I really don't care, just stop with the agenda pushing nonsense cause it's getting old and really starting to piss people off.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Why isn't it - - today - - in this modern world?



to prove that something is different, it just has to have one difference. it does't matter how many similarities there are or how many ways there are to bypass the difference. If one difference exists then it is different
and there are many differences ex ability to procreate (i know this has been discussed alot here but its just one very obvious difference)


Originally posted by Annee

Which are?

Which means what?

That is an excuse.



For these questions I think you are not reading the points in order. Each number is talking with the assumption that the previous number or claim is true and therefore they are true
the last line was the conclusion of the whole argument
edit on 22-5-2011 by quietlearner because: formating



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
Can you all just give me a break please, this thread and most of the responses are making me feel ill. At the end of the day, same sex couples have no claim to the WORD marriage. Ive made other posts within this thread as to why and nobody can answer them.



And who the hell are you? That you have determined ownership of a word?

Let me answer you. Legal Government document "Marriage License". We are a secular government.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
Can you all just give me a break please, this thread and most of the responses are making me feel ill. At the end of the day, same sex couples have no claim to the WORD marriage. Ive made other posts within this thread as to why and nobody can answer them.

Do yourselves and everyone else a favor and stop pushing this poorly thought out half assed agenda about raping the word marriage.

I have noticed that this push is not intended to get the same rights as everyone else, it is an agenda against religion in general because you feel scorned you are wholly rejected. Get over it and continue living your life with a civil union performed by the state that affords you all of the same misery the rest of us have in marriage.

If I have to completely dismantle every single argument in this thread in favor of gay marriage I will because it's disturbing how much attention your group seems to need just to be "yourselves".

Your entitled to nothing, you need not garner any special attention for your sexual preference which nobody else cares about and just wishes you kept it behind closed doors like everyone else who has a sexual preference does. Kiss in public, hold hands, hell, have a civil union, I really don't care, just stop with the agenda pushing nonsense cause it's getting old and really starting to piss people off.




Your opinion really doesn't matter in the situation.

If they want to call it marriage, they can. And I'm really sorry to break it to you, but you can't change that.

You can't own a word, child.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by GringoViejo



Your opinion really doesn't matter in the situation.

If they want to call it marriage, they can. And I'm really sorry to break it to you, but you can't change that.

You can't own a word, child.


just like I can call my honda a ferrari. actually I think I will call it a Rolls Royce
If I want I can right?



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious
Can you all just give me a break please, this thread and most of the responses are making me feel ill. At the end of the day, same sex couples have no claim to the WORD marriage. Ive made other posts within this thread as to why and nobody can answer them.



And who the hell are you? That you have determined ownership of a word?

Let me answer you. Legal Government document "Marriage License". We are a secular government.


Marriage isn't a term invented by the government. The idea, the ceremony also not invented by the government. In point of fact, it is a religious based word describing the union between men and women. The government as it has always done, profits by such a union by charging for a license to do it.

Did the government create bartending? No they didn't but guess what? They control and license it, just like farming, haircutting, every skill trade in existence, security, etc etc. So lets not pretend because there is a license for it and federal regulations that it is an institution of government, your argument is lost to common sense.

We are a secular government? Are we? Do you even know what that means as it applies to this thread? I don't think you do.

Sadly.... And for you I may add, pure and very simple logic is not on your side. You must accept that a word and idea that has been associated to religion, tradition and ceremony from the dawn of man is not relevant for those of the same sex.

Since you are so quick to point out a "marriage license" and U.S. law, why is it unacceptable to obtain a civil union that affords the same rights as marriage? Oh yeah, thats right, you don't really care about that...... It's this private crusade you have to force people to caring about what you like behind closed doors.....



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by quietlearner
 


I am not missing anything. You are trying to use what you consider socially acceptable for logic.

In America's society today - - - - everyone can be self sufficient - - - - get an education - - - - produce/adopt children - - - - own a home - - - - get a pilots license - - - - etc etc etc etc.

There is zero difference between race/gender in choices of how one chooses to live their life.

On this basis - - - logic wins - - - over individual belief in what is socially acceptable.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by GringoViejo
 


Sorry bud, unlike the garbage you are spewing there is zero opinion in my statements, there is only fact and truth in exposing what is obviously an agenda and not a crusade.

I am all for gays having the same rights as all others through private unions, what I am against is the war for the word marriage.

edit on 22-5-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by quietlearner

Originally posted by GringoViejo



Your opinion really doesn't matter in the situation.

If they want to call it marriage, they can. And I'm really sorry to break it to you, but you can't change that.

You can't own a word, child.


just like I can call my honda a ferrari. actually I think I will call it a Rolls Royce
If I want I can right?


Of course you can, but that doesn't make it a ferrari or a Rolls Royce. But I like your style.


However, by definition if gay people wanted to call their union a marriage, they can. It doesn't matter what any "god" says about it. "god's" word is irrelevant.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
Marriage isn't a term invented by the government.


TODAY - - - America's Secular Government - - - issues a LEGAL document named: "Marriage License".

I don't care where you think it came from.

There are many words today that have evolved in meaning. Marriage is one of them.

Too bad - so sad



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by GringoViejo
 


Sorry bud, unlike the garbage you are spewing there is zero opinion in my statements, there is only fact and truth in exposing what is obviously an agenda and not a crusade.

I am all for gays having the same rights as all others through private unions, what I am against is the war for the word marriage.

edit on 22-5-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)


Sorry bud, unlike your delusion of grandeur dictates, you not liking the use of the word marriage by gay people does not change that they are married. If they want to call it a civil union or a marriage, they can. Both terms are accurate.

There can't be a war for a word, no one owns it. That is like waging a war on an idea.

Of course, you can choose to not recognize it as a "marriage," but the fact that it is a marriage is not predicated on your acceptance. Thank god, pun intended.


edit on 22-5-2011 by GringoViejo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

I am not missing anything. You are trying to use what you consider socially acceptable for logic.

In America's society today - - - - everyone can be self sufficient - - - - get an education - - - - produce/adopt children - - - - own a home - - - - get a pilots license - - - - etc etc etc etc.

There is zero difference between race/gender in choices of how one chooses to live their life.

On this basis - - - logic wins - - - over individual belief in what is socially acceptable.



I just presented a logical argument of why gay union is not the same as marriage, I wasn't trying to impose my social beliefs. If you want to claim that that my argument is illogical you will have to use logic
I get what you are trying to say I just don't think it is enough to logically disproof a logical claim
and I have to disagree with there being "zero difference between race/gender" thats just not true more like liberal wishful thinking



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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The FACT that several countries have already legalized Gay MARRIAGE - - - it has global approval.

There are also many churches who perform Gay Marriages.

We're supposed to deny Gay Christians the right of Marriage? I don't think so.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by GringoViejo

Of course you can, but that doesn't make it a ferrari or a Rolls Royce. But I like your style.


However, by definition if gay people wanted to call their union a marriage, they can. It doesn't matter what any "god" says about it. "god's" word is irrelevant.


like you said, calling something something else does not make it the same



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Helious
Marriage isn't a term invented by the government.


TODAY - - - America's Secular Government - - - issues a LEGAL document named: "Marriage License".

I don't care where you think it came from.

There are many words today that have evolved in meaning. Marriage is one of them.

Too bad - so sad


So, the secular government issues licenses for pretty much everything in existence, somehow this case should be special and entitle you to something special? The answer is no, like everything else, it is regulated by the government to collect income. Not a valid argument.

You don't care where I "think" it came from because you refuse to believe the truth.

Your right, there are some words that have evolved in meaning throughout time. Is marriage one of them. No. It still means a union between a man and a women and will until humankind is done on earth. You have 0 valid claim on the word, ceremony nor even the most fundamental idea of what it is meant to be in terms of practical, spiritual and social progression.

You are letting your emotions control your brain and your common sense is suffering badly as a result. Your argument is not an argument over anything tangible, it is an argument formed to push an agenda to achieve a a perceived state of equality you feel self entitled too, because you feel different.



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