In light of today's events how credible is Christianity and its bible?

One crackpot making an assumption does not equal that an entire belief structure is false. I am not very religious myself but parts of the bible are quite accurate, Judges as the prime example can be said as an historical document since it can be traced in through the line of Judaic Kings. So don't discount something in total just because one doesn't agree with it's entire philosophy. Granted there was many revisions of a lot of the books, but so far being that one and a few others are spot on. But not this crazy koolaid drinking fool was just wrong twice now and led people astray, I believe that's a serious sin in his belief structure, something along the lines of one would be better to tie a mill stone around his neck and be tossed into the sea then lead his children astray. Something like that anyways.

Indeed, this Camping guy has only bolstered the validity of the Bible and Christianity. Some weird kind of logic you're using there.

I normally don't talk to people this way, but you're a moron if you think today had anything to do with Christianity. Many things can be used for both good and evil. So I've got a question for you? When are we going to say enough is enough and ban the use of alcohol, or cigarettes, or automobiles? They kill more than religion... But we simply cannot ban something just because some people are idiots.

reply to post by LiveEquation


In light of the last 2000 years, Christianity is not very credible, nor is the doctrine that formed it.

Peace

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Didn't the apostle John "SEE" Jesus coming in His kingdom when he was on the Isle of Patmos receiving the vision that led to the book of Revelation? Seems like Jesus's prophecy was incredibly precise and accurate, John did see it before he died. And wrote a book about seeing it.
*facepalm*

Is this an interpretation? If John already saw Jesus coming in his Kingdom, then why do you still believe Jesus hasn't come yet?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

reply to post by Lionhearte


LIonHearte, You haven't answered my questions...please answer all the questions and let me know if your understanding is a deduction or not. How did you come to that conclusion?

reply to post by newcovenant


Harold Camping didn't do anything different from what the rest of christians do...he derived meaning or interpreted the bible just like all christians including lionhearte. Apparently when Jesus said he would come in his kingdom with his angels he lied...he meant that he was going to talk with Moses and Elijah. How is this different from what Harold Camping did? At least he had he balls to fund and mobilize his interpretation

reply to post by spacedoubt


If you read my previous post, you will realize that i said the problem is when people derive meanings from what is written...please see my responses to lionhearte and newcovenant...Harold Camping is no different from any other christian in this respect

reply to post by graphuto


Please read my above responses

reply to post by ZackMorris


Am i a moron for pointing out the falicy of derived meanings from the bible? All christians do this...Tell me how is Matthew 16v27-28 implying that Jesus was to talk to Moses and Elijah? Was Jesus talking in figures of speech when he talked about the destruction of the temple? what is the evidence?

How is this different from what Harold Camping is doing?

reply to post by LiveEquation


Christianity and the Bible neither gained nor lost credibility due to today's events. Why? Well...it's a single guy. A lot of Christians disagreed with him. If you want to point out how little credibility the two have you can find all sorts of other places to look.

reply to post by LiveEquation

Is this an interpretation? If John already saw Jesus coming in his Kingdom, then why do you still believe Jesus hasn't come yet?

Huh? Because like Daniel, John was given a vision of the Tribulation and the millineal reign of Christ. Or Daniel's 70th week.

But Christ was correct, John still "saw" it with his own two eyes before he died, he wrote a book about what he saw. (Revelation)

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Could we try to be specific...When you say John saw Jesus coming in his kingdom, are you saying Jesus has already come or are you saying John dreamt or had a vision of Jesus coming in his kingdom?

they are not the same thing...

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I beg to differ, What Harold Camping did, he interpreted the bible. How is this different from what christians are doing today? Christians differ based on how they derive meaning from the bible...

Now if the bible were a tree, what kinds of fruits would it have because we know the different kinds of believers it produces...Should the bible and its interpretations be trusted? What kind of truth is this that has no singularity? Is it really truth?

Let me ask you a question...who is Melchizedek? apparently he has no beginning of days nor end of life. I bet you will tell me an interpretation of what and who you think this fella Melchizedek is

Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Could we try to be specific...When you say John saw Jesus coming in his kingdom, are you saying Jesus has already come or are you saying John dreamt or had a vision of Jesus coming in his kingdom?

they are not the same thing...

I am asking the same Question .. no christian seem to provide a credible answer.. John was one of Jesus favorite Deisciples John had dreams .. like all of us do ,,

But when does dreaming = absolute truth?? I have dreams that seem so true .. its like they are crystal clear .. but yet for me to tell everyone that a miricle is about to happen people would think I was off my rocker lol

Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by SonOfOda

 

Couldn't have said it better myself...

The problem i have seen with the bible is people trying to derive meaning from what was written...Take for example the word 'generation' used by Jesus when he said Peter's generation would suffer the destruction of the temple...somehow that word 'generation' applies to our generation and it also means that Peter and John were to see Jesus being transfigured...

It is no wonder there are over 10,000 christian denominations...shouldn't this say something?

Thats a lot of denomonations and wording from all of those denomoations .......which for a fact conflict with each other and it just is a revolveing never ending overly repeated dreams . and heresay mostly .. and every Christian seems to interpet the Bible in each their own ways

LOL and there was never any revaltion chapter in the Torah .. I thnk the whole Revalation chapter has been a conspricay for years

Using the Bible to interpetate/Set the Law for us ppl .. it's always been that way .. that's hypocritical

Instilling the fear factor and beloning to Occult Christian groups .. yeah to me it makes the Christians look like more of a fool than already have been thought of as ..LOL

Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I beg to differ, What Harold Camping did, he interpreted the bible. How is this different from what christians are doing today? Christians differ based on how they derive meaning from the bible...

Now if the bible were a tree, what kinds of fruits would it have because we know the different kinds of believers it produces...Should the bible and its interpretations be trusted? What kind of truth is this that has no singularity? Is it really truth?

Let me ask you a question...who is Melchizedek? apparently he has no beginning of days nor end of life. I bet you will tell me an interpretation of what and who you think this fella Melchizedek is

edit on 22-5-2011 by LiveEquation because: added a sentense

Actually what Mr.Camping did was try to predict something using a book he doesn't understand.

Anyone claiming they can predict anything using the bible automatically sends up flags. Unfortunatly many don't actually read whats in the bible, so their easily fooled by these so called "Prophets". Kinda like, well he reads the bible so he must be right.

reply to post by Akragon


It's what happens when so few people actually bother reading the book which they consider the infallible word of God. I find it odd that so many who hold a book so dear never bother reading it. I bother to read and re-read books that I consider far less important in the grand scheme of things. Same goes for some movies.

If I really had a book that was the most important book ever written..well..I'd read it at least once a year.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Akragon

 

It's what happens when so few people actually bother reading the book which they consider the infallible word of God. I find it odd that so many who hold a book so dear never bother reading it. I bother to read and re-read books that I consider far less important in the grand scheme of things. Same goes for some movies.

If I really had a book that was the most important book ever written..well..I'd read it at least once a year.

I totally agree, but again this comes down to people's understanding of the bible. If you don't read it for yourself you can be easily fooled by those who do. Then unfortunatly they have the advantage of saying "well its in the bible" so they automatically classify the information as true, even if they totally missed the actual meaning.

On the plus side, those who actually have read the bible can easily see one who has not.

Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Could we try to be specific...When you say John saw Jesus coming in his kingdom, are you saying Jesus has already come or are you saying John dreamt or had a vision of Jesus coming in his kingdom?

they are not the same thing...

Why would you ask me that? I used the word "vision" in my post. Anyways, a vision is when a person is awake, a dream is when a person is sleeping. John's "vision" was even more rare, he wrote he was "in the Spirit" on the "day of the Lord" or Lord's day. He claims he had an out of the body experieince and was taken to Daniel's 70th week in the spirit. His "vision" was rather unique, rather than seeing a vision of future evens like most prophets did, John claimed to be taken to the event to witness in the future it happening.

This is all in Revelation chapter 1. John saw Daniel's 70th week, the Tribulation, the millineal reign, the nEw Jerusalem, and the Great White Throne Judgment as they transpired. Quite remarkable. But Christ's words were extremelly precise, John saw Jesus coming again w/ His kingdom before he died.

That experience/vision is the basis for the book of Revelation.

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reply to post by newcovenant


Sorry about that mis clicked was meaning to reply to the OP

Science has had their own share of crackpot ideas that didnt pan with earth or human ending disasters.

All i was saying.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Why would you ask me that? I used the word "vision" in my post... John's "vision" was even more rare, he wrote he was "in the Spirit" on the "day of the Lord" or Lord's day. He claims he had an out of the body experieince and was taken to Daniel's 70th week in the spirit...That experience/vision is the basis for the book of Revelation.

what do you mean by John's "vision" was even more rare... ?

]He claims he had an out of the body experience and was taken to Daniel's 70th week in the spirit..

I just read the whole of revelations and i didn't read any record of John saying that he was taken to Daniels 70th day in the Spirit...

Please answer my questions below so i can understand better what you mean....Quote a verse for me please as well ( i need a record of it)

1. What is the Bible's definition of being in the Spirit?
2. Where in the bible does it say John left his body behind and was in the Spirit?
3. Did Jesus ever Hallucinate/have Visions and claim He was in the Spirit?
4. When Jesus said people will see him coming in his Kingdom, was he implying that people would see this event in their minds(vision/dreams)? If this is true then how reliable is your interpretation?

reply to post by Akragon


I partially agree with you...but if you drop a rock on earth it will fall to the ground every time...understanding history or what has happened is not the same thing because it has already happened. In other words you cannot try to replicate it.

Using information that cannot be measured to an absolute certainty to predict future events is not based on truth since we cannot derive truth from it.

According to the bible Truth is Holy(separate) so it is independent of anything...it is measurable and can be replicated. Truth will remain unchanged no matter what input you use to test it. It is a singularity.

Interpretations are not truth until the abstract is tested to withstand anything without changing...

What credibility should we lend to a record that has many hypothesis' and yet cannot be replicated? It is either history or it is not absolute truth that can be applied today with the same results.

Harold Camping interpreted the bible just like Christians do...But he had guts to measure them by using a date. His interpretations have proven false.

What interpretation of the bible has proven true today?

What interpretation of the bible is truth, a singularity that remains the same through all time?

Hebrews 11v1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is substance and evidence...it can be replicated if it has substance and evidence!

As a whole, this wasn't a loss or gain for "Christianity." Some christians believe in the rapture, some don't. Harold Camping has only discredited himself.