Turkey warns Israel over new Gaza flotilla

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posted on May, 21 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


This has become yet another ridiculous religious discussion.

The Jews want to believe that they are God's holy chosen. The Muslims, who are honestly probably the last redoubt of a true practice of the religious faith of Abraham, believe that the Christians and the Jews are masquerading as the true chosen people and that the true Jews/Semites are the Arabs, and the Christians think that Jesus is the only way to God.

Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Interestingly the Middle East was not a boiling mess of hate under the control of the Ottomans.
Christian, Jew, and Muslim lived side by side with no problems.

No wars under Ottoman control.

But gimme some Christian control or Zionist control and the wars break out like a bad case of herpes.

I personally think that all of you believers in the faiths of Abraham are a lunatic fringe, but I feel pity for the suffering of the Palestinians.
The same pity that is preyed upon with the mere mention of "the" holocaust.

The bible is not the holy word of God.

It is a book.

It was written by a group of men with an agenda.

It was, ironically enough, a product of the same Roman Empire that was supposedly the enemy of the Jews.

The same Roman Empire that suppposedly crucified Jesus at the command of Caiaphas, the Jewish priest, for impersonating the Jewish messiah during passover.

Israel cannot keep up this bully act much longer.

The world is waking up to their charade.




posted on May, 21 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 





Two factions exist within Judaism. Those that take the teachings of the Torah literally.


Really.... Now youre an expert in Judaism .

For your information, Josephus (i would expect a person with the name Josephus to have read josephus, and thus be able to understand a thing or two about Judaism), there has been only one Judaism, Rabbinic Judaism since the destruction of the 2nd Temple. These men took over from the men of the Great Assmbly.




The Christian faith once called these factions the Saducees and the Pharisees.


Wow. I dont want to be mean, but your ignorance is painfully obvious. The saducees were a GREEK 5th wheel during the Hasmonean kingdom. They were the first, but not the last (see Karaite Judaism) to challenge the oral, esoteric tradition of the past. They claimed the Torah was just to be taken literally.. Now, is this any different from the decievers today who analyze the bible from a solely literal perspective? Irreverant of the allegoral interpretation?... Listen, you dont know anything about the Bible. You dont read Hebrew, and you know nothing of the esoteric depth of its teachings. The Rabbis identify 4 archetypal levels of interpretation. Literal, metaphorical, homiletical and Mystical. This is basically saying the text exudes 4 different levels, 3 of which are lacking in the non Hebrew translations.

The bible has an esoteric/archetypal meaning. This is the secret of the bible and why it has held the fascination of mankind for thousands of years. Believe what you will. You do so in your ignorance.




One group adheres to the letter of the law, while the other group relies upon rabbinical interpretations of the law.


Right.. Do you know how many "laws" supposedly found in the literal text, like tzittzit (fringes) which have no explanations whatsoever? Fact is, there IS an oral tradition, just as Hindu, Taoist, Greek etc sacred texts have an oral explanation. This has always been the way teachings have been transmitted over the generations.




If both groups believe that the "holy land" is theirs, because it says so explicitly in their Bible, then why does one maintain the letter of the law regarding the prophecy in question and the other disregard it?


Are you trying to make a connection between the chasidic Jews who disavow the current state of Israel with Sadducees? Theres no the connrction between the two and i never meant to imply that. They too learn the Torah at the esoteric level. They just lack a practical understanding of wordly affairs.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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I don't want to be mean but will you guys stop derailing the thread and stick to the subject.

If you want a Religious history debate go do it on your own thread.

Turkey, Israel, Gaza Flotilla..OK.

Cosmic...



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


My response concerning the Saducees and the Pharisees was metaphorical in nature.
Both were Jews and mostly divided along the lines of wealth and social class.

Tis a shame that you could not understand that.

But you seem to be dodging my point.

And conveniently overlooking the link that I provided.

Not all Jews believe that the holy land is theirs and the division in these beliefs is currently due to wealth, class, and the desire for secular wealth.

It is difficult to discuss this subject, especially regarding Turkey and Israel, without discussing the history between the two.

Turkey was once the Ottoman Empire and the land that was theirs was taken by Britain.

And given to the Zionist.
The same Zionists who do not represent the beliefs of all Jews.

Gaza is being held hostage to assuage the blood lust of Israel.

I have made my point.

Feel free to go on meandering about your view of history.
And a flawed view at that.

Quite similar to the Roman disinformation specialist Titus Flavius Josephus.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Wasn't that the ancient Israelites though and not the current lot?
Koestler (A Jew) wrote in the book 'The Thirteenth Tribe' that this bunch of Jews in Israel were migrants from the Caucus region's of Eastern Europe...

Some would say the homeland of the Jews would be better off elsewhere where it's safer for them than 'surrounded' on all sides by 'hostile' peoples....
Patagonia was one location mooted and I think the German's wanted to ship them all to Madagascar during the war...
I'm seriously worried that there will be a big flare-up if things get out of hand (like they did last time an aid convoy was boarded and fighting broke out)
edit on 21-5-2011 by WatchRider because: addition.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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aid to an impoverished people under military occupation in international waters is an act of war. that's how hitler started world war 2. he sent 10,000 cans of tuna to poland and the rest is history.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Good. And Israel should Warn Turkey in return:

You send that flotilla and what happened before will happen again.


Exactly how blindly zionist are you? Somewhat? Quite a lot?

If you recall, Israel attacked a ship on the high seas that was flying the Turkish flag. It was legally sovereign Turkish soil. Turkey didnt send it.

They are merely reminding Israel of this fact through diplomacy and perhaps Israel would be wise to listen because the world doesn't exactly have much love for them right now.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by dontreally
 


Wasn't that the ancient Israelites though and not the current lot?
Koestler (A Jew) wrote in the book 'The Thirteenth Tribe' that this bunch of Jews in Israel were migrants from the Caucus region's of Eastern Europe...

Some would say the homeland of the Jews would be better off elsewhere where it's safer for them than 'surrounded' on all sides by 'hostile' peoples....
Patagonia was one location mooted and I think the German's wanted to ship them all to Madagascar during the war...


how about new york. there are already 2 million jews there. kick out every american citizen thru force and military means. if they resist kill them. then send over every jew in israel.

and if any americans complain that they were unjustly thrown out of there homes, label them terrorists and send them to guantanamo.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by harryhaller
 


Which would be a provocation of war...

Do you get that ships are not allowed to dock at the port of Gaza without explicit Israeli permission?

Do you understand why that is? Do you know which government currently rules in Gaza? Hamas... Do you know that Hamas is regarded by all rational countries as a terrorist organization? Do you get that the claim of 'foreign aid' could simply be a ruse to ship in illegal arms? Do you now understand why Israel expects all foreign aid to go to the port of Ashdod first - to be checked - and then transported into the Gaza strip???

Understand, comprende?



Hamas is a legitimate, democratically elected government and is not a terrorist group. Stop spewing nonsense.....



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



As for '67. When another nation attacks you; and when the land that nation occupied was known in the past as Judea and Samaria, and indeed contains more relics and history of the Jews than all of the western porton of Israel assigned by the nations of the world to Israel, than im sorry, AFTER the attack, which was unprovoked, and after they lost that Jewish land like East Jerusalem - always known before that as old Jerusalem, ie; the Jewish Jerusalem, than they lost all claim. They took a risk, Jordan and Egypt in attacking Israel..


Why do you insist on spewing lies like most Israelis ???

It's a FACT that Israel attacked in 1967..

You can't change history that easily..
Maybe keep lying for a few more years and a few will believe you...



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


I thought the war in 1967 was started with an Israeli attack on Egypt.
edit on 21-5-2011 by mayabong because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo

Probably just big talk from Erdogan. But you never know... since last time Israel attacked the ship, they attacked sovereign Turkish territory, since it was a Turkish ship in international waters.

Let's say worst case scenario, Israel kills people on those ships again... well I think the worst Turkey is gonna do is call for sanctions on Israel, ban Israelis from their country or something like that.

I doubt they will go militaristic on Israel... or even give weapons to Hezbollah...

Turkey is NATO after all.

www.google.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 21-5-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)


I hope Turkey tries something. Be a good excuse to liberate Constantinople and kick them out of NATO, as well as punish them for the genocide against Armenian Christians.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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Interesting reading about one of the fastest butt kickings in military history...

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 22-5-2011 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
Interesting reading about one of the fastest butt kickings in military history...

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 22-5-2011 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)


Why not when you ATTACK a country while they are asleep and destroy their airforce while still on the ground..

Kinda like shooting someone in the back, really heroic.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 01:43 AM
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War is war, whatever it takes, if you can get one over on the enemy when they aren't looking or are asleep then hats off to them. There were some exceptional military tactics and strategies that were used by the IDF during the 6 day war, tactics that are still studied to this day by militaries around the world.

Was it really such a "sneak attack" though? You would think any army that is preparing for war by massing it's troops and armor along a nations borders would have the strategical common sense to defend thier own airbases in case of such an attack...



On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), as well as four independent infantry and four independent armored brigades. No less than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's intervention into the Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[24] At the same time some Egyptian troops (15,000 - 20,000) were still fighting in Yemen.[25][26][27] Nasser's ambivalence about his goals and objectives was reflected in his orders to the military. The general staff changed the operational plan four times in May 1967, each change requiring the redeployment of troops, with the inevitable toll on both men and vehicles. Towards the end of May, Nasser finally forbade the general staff from proceeding with the Qahir ("Victory") plan, which called for a light infantry screen in the forward fortifications with the bulk of the forces held back to conduct a massive counterattack against the main Israeli advance when identified, and ordered a forward defense of the Sinai.[28] In the meantime, he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan, in order to bring pressure on Israel.

edit on 22-5-2011 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
[.....destined for the gaza strip. If they had unloaded whatever they had at the port of ashdod, nothing would have happened. But they didnt, refused, and so faced the penalty.


You're damn right nothing would have happened, such as Gazans seeing any of the humanitarian supplies if they were dropped off at some IDF controlled port.

Penalty?
Penalty for trying to improve the lives of Palestinians?
Why should Israel make the rules when it comes to Palestinians?
Why can't boats go directly to Palestine?
Why can't Palestinians make their own decisions, work towards their own fate?

Israel tries to play this "innocence" game while imprisoning the Palestinian population and killing anyone who supports them. What is the Israeli government so afraid of that they will use force to continue to beseige Gaza? Perhaps they are afraid of democracy and justice.
edit on 22-5-2011 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by Jocko Flocko
 



War is war, whatever it takes, if you can get one over on the enemy when they aren't looking or are asleep then hats off to them. There were some exceptional military tactics and strategies that were used by the IDF during the 6 day war, tactics that are still studied to this day by militaries around the world.

Was it really such a "sneak attack" though? You would think any army that is preparing for war by massing it's troops and armor along a nations borders would have the strategical common sense to defend thier own airbases in case of such an attack...


What, a countries not allowed troops on their own border?
Especially after Israel had already attacked them once in 1956?

Yeah, I bet they are still studying how Israel planes attacked an Egyptian school killing many children..

The IDF, my heroes.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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I love teh smell of Zionism in the morning.

Kind of smells like dog #.



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by dontreally
 


I am not surprised to see your inconsistency, which is ubiquitous throughout Zionist beliefs.

The British did the Zionists a huge favor.
Good try on the appeal to emotion card, but if that offends you then I suggest thickening your skin.

If it were not for the British and the rapacious Rothschild dynasty, Israel would not exist.
(and we can't forget the USA)

Two factions exist within Judaism. Those that take the teachings of the Torah literally.
And those that take the teachings of the torah literally when it fits their desire.

The Christian faith once called these factions the Saducees and the Pharisees.
(I am not a Chrisitan. I like to understand things)

One group adheres to the letter of the law, while the other group relies upon rabbinical interpretations of the law.

If both groups believe that the "holy land" is theirs, because it says so explicitly in their Bible, then why does one maintain the letter of the law regarding the prophecy in question and the other disregard it?

And funny enough as well, the group that maintains the letter of the law are pacifists, while the other group are hell bent upon a genocide of the Palestinians.

Check out this link for an example.

As I have said, the land that was controlled in the Middle East by the Ottomans was taken as a spoil of war by the British, thus the number of Arab states set up by the British after the war.

This was the same modus operandi of the Roman Empire.
Self-governing states that were heavily influenced by Roman desires.

The only claim that the Zionists have to the "holy land" is found in their bible and that is all.

Simply because a group of people wish to have land that is claimed to have been occupied by them thousands of years ago is no reason for the genocide of the Palestinians.

The Zionists want to scream about the horrors of "the" holocaust or the inquisition, but yet they do the EXACT same thing to the Palestinians.

The logic is not congruent.

edit on 5/21/2011 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)
No they are not even close to doing what the Nazis did. I don't see extermination camps in any of the Palestinian territories. I am in no way a Israeli lover but the hate and false propaganda that gets thrown at israel is irritating



posted on May, 22 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by Lovepeace20
 


The "extermination camps" have been called into question.

I made a thread on this same subject and received a post ban, so I will say no more about this topic.

But just for S & G, lets say they were true.

The only difference between the two is the fact that Israel and the USA are both openly committing genocide against the Arabs.
Look up the death count.
Actually I will do a bit of research for you, here is only the death count of children.

link to source

Go ahead, take a look, read a book, reading rainbows.

Anyhoo... Seriously check out the link and notice the vast difference in the number of Palestinian children killed versus Israeli children killed.

And that in no way takes into account the "collateral damage", aka innocent people murdered, and done so by the USA in our current crusade.

Also, the link that I provided will show you how, where, and who died from both sides of the battle.
That is children mind you.
Needless deaths on both sides of the fence.

Strikingly, the majority of Palestinian children who died did so in Gaza.

The same Gaza that is referenced in the OP.
And the reason for death is a lack of adequate health care.

Health care that they could have received if the flotillas actually reached them with supplies.
Or the IDF allowed the children out of the Gaza open air prison in order to receive the necessary health care.

As i said before, it is a hypocritical argument.
You say to-may-to. I say to-mah-to.





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