Family Facing $4 Million in Fines for Selling Bunnies

Originally posted by amazed
What kind of bunnies?

Oh, never mind.

Yep, corporatism sure is great ain't it?

I guess this means if I sell my extra few chicken eggs a week I will get a huge fine? I'll just give them away then, at least I will know others are getting healthy foods, at least until I am not allowed to give my food away.

Harm None
Peace

Well, if your 'few chickens' make you thousands of dollars in revenue and you are known as the 'go to guy' for chicken eggs in your county, then yes.

This is a complete joke. Government will gladly screw the little guy but when large corporations like Enron commit acts which should force them to be disolved they do nothing.

In calafornia 58,000 small companies were disolved from 2001-2 for minor infirngments and tax evasion. Guess how many large corporations were disolved for human rights abuses, violation of minumum wage law, violations of enviromental law and tax evasion? Exactly none. Not even Enron was disolved by the State when it should have been. This just goes to show that big corporations don't hate the government, they are the government.

Originally posted by burntheships

Family Facing $4 Million in Fines for Selling Bunnies

biggovernment.com

I share details of another hare-raising story from the Show-Me State: John Dollarhite and his wife Judy of tiny Nixa, Mo., have been told by the USDA that, by Monday, they must pay a fine exceeding $90,000. If they don’t pay that fine, they could face additional fines of almost $4 million. Why? Because they sold more than $500 worth of bunnies — $4,600 worth to be exact — in a single calendar year.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The 500.00 is the most you can sell without requiring a Animal Welfare Act license. They didnt understand what the FDA wanted on there 1st visit. They were wondering if they wanted to be a pet dealer and as such would have to do monthly inspections.This is the same law that protects against animal cruelty as a matter of fact.If your going to run a business you need to make sure you have all the information before you start.I see how this business started and i do feel sorry for them but anytime you create a business first thing you do is check regulations to avoid fines.

Let me tell you how he has won every case. THEIR PEOPLE ARE THE ONES DOING THE RULING!!!!! I have been through through this two times already. The second time, my lawyer admitted to me that he had pulled the voting record of a hearing officer that was going to hear a case of his. The man had the job for 10 years and had ruled for the USDA on every case except one. Can you tell me that every farmer that had went before him in 10 years were wrong except one? I would bet money that the one paid him off a huge amount of money. It took me over a decade to finally get a congressman to have the office audited of an employee of the USDA that diverted about $75,000 of my money to pay a man to go to jail in his place on a coc aine trafficking charge. All they did was move him out of the office. He has a nice 2 1/2 hour drive to work every day now.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
This is a complete joke. Government will gladly screw the little guy but when large corporations like Enron commit acts which should force them to be disolved they do nothing.

In calafornia 58,000 small companies were disolved from 2001-2 for minor infirngments and tax evasion. Guess how many large corporations were disolved for human rights abuses, violation of minumum wage law, violations of enviromental law and tax evasion? Exactly none. Not even Enron was disolved by the State when it should have been. This just goes to show that big corporations don't hate the government, they are the government.

Big corporations are fined all the time but being a large corporation they have the money to pay the fines.Your argument is kinda silly.Enron for example was fined 1.7 billion dollars (not including legal expenses) this hardly sounds like big corporations running the government.And even with taking this hit they were close to being put out of business had to take out loans to cover it and still not making a profit in fact continues to show losses. Mostly due to interest payments and stock depreciation.There not likely to be around in another decade or so.

The term of thousands of dollars in revenue is ambiguous .The 4k they took in most likely amounted to a actual profit of maybe a grand if they were lucky maybe more depends on how the feed prices cages and vet bills are in that location . Agriculture has a low percentage of return on investment.

The agricultural laws are based on so many variables it is hard to keep track of them all . One group of items is based on total poundage another number of animals sold another how much money was cleared after vet feed ect , another total in herd , how many bushels , how many gallons and total revenue .

I honestly believe that the web of rules and regulations is more about keeping large corporations in control of our food supply and keeping a bloated department busy work than they are to protect our food . Or animals welfare go visit a commercial feed lot slaughter house .

The day of the small start up farmer finding a niche market is rapidly closing.

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
The term of thousands of dollars in revenue is ambiguous

Revenue is the money generated from sales of goods. IT does not refer to profits. They had thousands of dollars in sales (revenue) which is most definitely more than a' lemon aid stand' as the 'article' claims.

It is indeed true that the myriad laws and restrictions in this country regarding ANY small business can be frustrating and likely benefits the larger, more established businesses. But to cry foul after the fact, because you ignored or were ignorant of the rues and regulations is just silly.

This was not a 'lemonaide stand', the owner admits they were the 'go to guy' in the county for rabbits, and had several 'large contracts'.

Originally posted by dragonridr
and i do feel sorry for them but anytime you create a business first thing you do is check regulations to avoid fines.

Pretty much this.
Reading through the article it was clear that they werent aware of ANY of the rules of the business that they were in.
The thing with the cage sizes, for example. They were told the cages were too small, and they could only reply "but they're new big ones" (or words to that effect) when they should have been able to respond back with actual dimensions.
Same with the sanitising rules. Same with the sales quotas.
They didnt have a clue.

Darn, I thought Hefner was selling some of his bunnies

reply to post by burntheships


well all this silly arguing back and forth

it's obvious who's to blame here and hopefully this family will overcome,
having learned firsthand a very valuable lesson.




oh, who's to blame?
the family of course.

and what's the valuable lesson learned here, folks?


don't let the gov/mafia know how much you make.

Originally posted by MBF
Let me tell you how he has won every case. THEIR PEOPLE ARE THE ONES DOING THE RULING!!!!! I have been through through this two times already. The second time, my lawyer admitted to me that he had pulled the voting record of a hearing officer that was going to hear a case of his. The man had the job for 10 years and had ruled for the USDA on every case except one. Can you tell me that every farmer that had went before him in 10 years were wrong except one? I would bet money that the one paid him off a huge amount of money. It took me over a decade to finally get a congressman to have the office audited of an employee of the USDA that diverted about $75,000 of my money to pay a man to go to jail in his place on a coc aine trafficking charge. All they did was move him out of the office. He has a nice 2 1/2 hour drive to work every day now.

Thanks for posting MBF.

I think your story is more common than we know.

Wow, so the employee of the USDA in your case was skimming the pay out on the fine or taking a
back grab from the coffers and then paid someone to take his drug rap for him.

Not suprising, coc aine is a powerful drug. The idea that a person in a governmental office using
his position to fine others so they can skim off it it to take care of their own problems is just sick!

Oh...wait. This is sounding familiar, where have I heard this before....Ummmm

The banks! Yes, oh we all remember the bail outs. Remember when Chase, and Goldman Sachs
needed a bail out.

And then they turned around and the next year sent everyone to the spa. La de da.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I don't see how the USDA has any authority if nothing crossed state lines?

I am also pretty certain the Constitution of the US has provisions for excessive taxation.

I had the $#@$#! USDA show up too. I also was doing ALL business within state.

The Animal Welfare Act originally only covered interstate commerce in animals. Someone about ten years ago slipped an amendment through Congress that added the "Commerce Clause" to the already existing law.

This is REALLY bad news for most everyday Americans.

For example if a farmer or dog lover has two or three un-spayed female dogs on the property and raised more than three litters of pups and sells those pups, then you can expect a visit from the USDA and heavy fines one fine day.

This is about the Food Safety law but pertains to the Animal welfare act as well.

Lori Robertson of FactCheck.org, who is not a lawyer (she has a B.A. in advertising), claims the bill doesn’t apply to “that tomato plant in your backyard.” As a lawyer, I am skeptical of this claim (I co-represented the prevailing defendant in the last successful constitutional challenge to federal regulation under the interstate commerce clause, United States v. Morrison (2000), one of only two cases in 70 years in which a challenge was successful). Congress's power under the Constitution's Commerce Clause is almost unlimited in the eyes of the courts, and thus can reach the "tomato plant in your backyard."

...Ignorance about the law’s broad reach (and how it will be construed by the courts) has thwarted opposition to the bill, which will likely pass Congress. For example, a newspaper claims the bill “doesn’t regulate home gardens.” The newspaper probably assumed that was true because the bill, like most federal laws, only purports to reach activities that affect “interstate commerce.” To an uninformed layperson or journalist, that “sounds as if it might not reach local and mom-and-pop operators at all.” (The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Rosa DeLauro, has sought to forestall opposition to her bill by falsely claiming that that “the Constitution’s commerce clause prevents the federal government from regulating commerce that doesn’t cross state lines.”)

But lawyers familiar with our capricious legal system know better. The Supreme Court ruled in Wickard v. Filburn (1942) that even home gardens (in that case, a farmer’s growing wheat for his own consumption) are subject to federal laws that regulate interstate commerce. Economists and scholars have criticized this decision, but it continues to be cited and followed in Supreme Court rulings, such as those applying federal anti-drug laws to consumption of even home-grown medical marijuana. Indeed, many court decisions allow Congress to define as “interstate commerce” even non-commercial conduct that doesn’t cross state lines — something directly at odds with Rep. DeLauro’s claims. www.examiner.com...

So once they finish with the rabbit and dog owners they will be coming after the little old ladies selling pies at the church bake sale....

Oh wait they ALREADY HAVE!

FARM WARS: PA Church Ladies Raided by ‘Food Safety’ Cops

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
This is a complete joke. Government will gladly screw the little guy but when large corporations like Enron commit acts which should force them to be disolved they do nothing.

In calafornia 58,000 small companies were disolved from 2001-2 for minor infirngments and tax evasion. Guess how many large corporations were disolved for human rights abuses, violation of minumum wage law, violations of enviromental law and tax evasion? Exactly none. Not even Enron was disolved by the State when it should have been. This just goes to show that big corporations don't hate the government, they are the government.

Big corporations are fined all the time but being a large corporation they have the money to pay the fines.Your argument is kinda silly.Enron for example was fined 1.7 billion dollars (not including legal expenses) this hardly sounds like big corporations running the government.And even with taking this hit they were close to being put out of business had to take out loans to cover it and still not making a profit in fact continues to show losses. Mostly due to interest payments and stock depreciation.There not likely to be around in another decade or so.

edit on 5/21/11 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Buddy I'm not talking about fines. I'm talking about the right that the State has to disolve corporations as the State is the creator of the corporation. Small companies will be disolved/destroyed/dismantled(whatever word you prefer) in the blink of the eye, while large corporations get slap on the wrist fines which are only marginal costs compared to the profit they make from violating laws and regulations.

reply to post by g146541

there are areas of Kalifornia that some types just do not venture into unless they are part of a large armed party. I'm sure Missouri is as bad or worse. I wouldn't be surprised if folks start to come up missing if they show up with an alphabet agency badge and ill intent toward farmers....

They just passed the Food "safety" Modernization act of 2010 and it is going to set off a real ruckus!

There are over 2.2 million farmers in the USA. Only about 5,000 are big corporate farms, all the rest are family farms although some are incorporated. This does NOT include hobby farmers who refused to fill out the Ag Census. The temporary agent working the Ag Census said she got cursed up one side and down the other by EVERYONE she called who had not filled out the forms and no one at the office could understand why there was so much anger. This was in 2006 and 2007 when the Animal ID/Premises ID fight was just starting to heat up.

Now consider this.

The AVERAGE age of US farmers is over 55. That means many are Vietnam vets. Per capita, more Vietnam Vets suffer from chronic PTSD than from any other war. about 31 percent of men and 27 percent of women had suffered from PTSD at some point after their return from Vietnam. One in six soldiers returning from Iraq suffer from it.

These people represent many of the "back to the land" survivalist types who really just want to be left alone.... I have met several of them at auctions and farmers markets. I will tell you one thing. There is NO WAY I would want to show up at these guys homes without an invitation!!! And Mr smith and Mr. Weston are the least of it.

I spelunked (caved) and there are place you just DO NOT GO. My club had three members vanish in West Virgina over a five year period.

Reply to post by Vikus

You forgot to add that it is lehgal to hunt down and kill rabbits.

Bureaucrats, not so much.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by crimvelvet


The AVERAGE age of US farmers is over 55. That means many are Vietnam vets.

I'm sorry, but what?

Your math does not add. Might as well say many are hippies, or rednecks, or internet bloggers.

reply to post by burntheships


The way the man was getting my money was from me repaying a loan. When I got a letter from the federal govt was when I found out something was wrong. I thought it was just a clerical error. I called him and told him that there was a problem and when I met with him, he went over my payments and I saw all the payments were made. He then told me," I don't give a damn what the record shows, you are going to repay the loan again or I am going to take everything you own and sell it". I am 5'3" and he is 6'9", but I told him what part of my anatomy he could kiss.

I had him investigated by the Office of Inspector General at the suggestion of my lawyer. They determined that "they couldn't substantiate any of my claims". I mailed them a newspaper article showing where he had been arrested on a coc aine trafficking charge as the result of an ongoing investigation because they said he was no way involved in drugs and told them that I didn't think they wanted to find anything against him. When I filed a FOIA to get a copy of the report of the investigation, I was surprised at what I got back. I got LESS than I sent them. Even the letter that I sent them has part of it deleted. There were as many as 7 straight pages completely deleted, maybe a total of a good 20 total and the ones that were not deleted had his name and what I said he had done deleted. In my digging into this man, I found out other things that he had done, like writing his friends loans with no collateral and then letting the taxpayers pay the bill. He can make a loan for $200,000 without anybody over him approving it and he has taken advantage of it. I found out other things that I will not get into here that I have had my life threatened over. The govt is a bunch of crooks.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds

Perhaps. But the fact of the matter is these people knowingly ignored the rules, and now are whining about it

BULL POOP!

I very much doubt these people had any idea there were any regs.

DUDE, their LAWYER didn't even know what the law was! And that is one of the points of the story.

How many people out in the country have several dogs and occasionally sell pups??? At $200 a pop ONE litter goes over the blasted $500 dollar amount.

Think about it. There were 61,656,386 people living in the country in 1990. Out of that 61.5 million how many of them sell pups and how many of those who sell a few litters a year are aware there is even a law that may apply?

DO YOU know every blasted law on the books in your state??? Were you aware it is ILLEGAL to put carrot peelings from a store bought carrot into your compost heap if you live in Mass?

Originally posted by crimvelvet


DO YOU know every blasted law on the books in your state???

No, but as a for-profit farmer I AM aware of the laws that relate to my business. To engage in a business that deals with 'large contracts' one should likely be aware of the rules regulating siad business.. I have sold rabbits and Chickens in the past.

reply to post by amazed

I guess this means if I sell my extra few chicken eggs a week I will get a huge fine? I'll just give them away then, at least I will know others are getting healthy foods, at least until I am not allowed to give my food away.

I am sorry but even giving the eggs away is illegal and unfortunately I am not kidding.

This is a real life example of what has already occurred and what may be in store:

Today a state Ag inspector and two county officials show up and scare the bee-jesus out of me. First they accuse me of selling products and milk, then explain that even "giving milk products away" is illegal in California. Now everything is pasteurized, but it is illegal to share milk products in any form! They explained it was even ILLEGAL to give it to my own children if they did not live under my roof!

I can't even take a lasagna dish to my grown sons home without risk of being fined, arrested and or jailed! This is OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

Donna, Aug 12, 2008.

Conclusion
The related package of "food safety" bills is totalitarian. There are no two ways about it.

They allow government warrantless intrusion into and extreme, detailed, surveilled control over every aspect of farmers' land and home, straight-jacketing them into a bureaucratic nightmare which precludes their even functioning as farmers. ... www.opednews.com...