Yep, let's raise taxes and government when it suits our agenda!

Yep, it's more government and taxes, the two evil words in the "tea party/conservative/libertarian/whatever people like to rebrand themselves" dictionary. Remember when Republican leaders along with their vocal tea party followers whined none stop about the taxes and government under the Obama adminstration? Well, there's a different tune when it comes to social issues supported by these very same people:



That's right folks, that's what republicans want, that's what tea partiers want. They want to raise taxes on health insurers that leave medical options for woman to choose abortion, they want government to regulate a woman's body. We should allow states to decide on this matter!? So women, if your in Texas, Alabama, Kansas or whatever other state that cracks down on abortions, watch out! Your bodies are up for inspection! You will suffer penalties under taxes!

Yep, people want to force their own beliefs on others. "Life begins at conception!" Says who? And regardless, you want to enforce law over a womans body? Really? So it's perfectly fine to do all these things tea partiers and conservatives hate when it promotes their agendas? Pathetic.

Handmaids tale


We'd be heading this way if allowed these clowns to control and dictate this country. But hey, I personally know some women who support these measures. Unbelievable, and as usual, people on the rightwing keep shut (silently supporting these measures). If this gets too far, hopefully the supreme court will step in.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


" hopefully the supreme court will step in."

Fat chance

They have to raise taxes to pay off the huge debt. No choice in that. Well I suppose they can default and crash the economy but that is another story.

I don't get American politics. Americans as a whole hate big government and socialism, yet capitalism ie the banking system has sunk every American (except the elite rich) into economic strife through the greed of the few.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
They have to raise taxes to pay off the huge debt. No choice in that. Well I suppose they can default and crash the economy but that is another story.

I don't get American politics. Americans as a whole hate big government and socialism, yet capitalism ie the banking system has sunk every American (except the elite rich) into economic strife through the greed of the few.

The debt is the back wash from the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

The debt is also the giant derivatives scam being unspooled thru the never ending
bailouts and QE# that is basically printing money like the Wiemar Republic did before
it went into Hyperinflation.

Alot of ppl doubt the possibility of hyperinflation because they assume it is rare,
it has actually happened before right here in the US and 34 times around the world
in total and there is a man that says it has been triggered on purpose to loot nations,
and is about to be done here as well.

34 prior instances of Hyperinflation





As for various forms of government becoming corrupt, the founding fathers said as much.

The selfish always manipulate the world around them to get what they want, and what
they want is more, and it seems for some of them no amount is ever enough.

Look no further than the banksters and those who have played their game for a
very very long time.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
They have to raise taxes to pay off the huge debt. No choice in that.

I totally agree. You're preaching to the choir, check my other threads. It's just hypocritical how taxes is been used as a weapon to regulate abortion in this country by tea party advocates and other conservatives, those who have time and time again raised the constitution towards this current administration over the same thing.

I don't get American politics. Americans as a whole hate big government and socialism, yet capitalism ie the banking system.

Agreed again.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I used to sell insurance for several companies and I have never seen a policy that covers abortions.. really weird. But it is funny hypocrisy.

Personally, I always thought it was weird that Liberals support abortion .. the people that are all happy-go-lucky lets save the tress and feed Africans turn around and demand the right to inject a fetus with potassium chloride (stops the heart) and suck it out with a vacuum.

I'm pro-choice only because I'm a man. I think the Left though does major damage to especially young girls by advising abortions and making them seem ok, they end up an emotional mess with long lasting mental issues such as PTSD that go untreated.

Just one of those weird things I guess.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Personally, I always thought it was weird that Liberals support abortion .. the people that are all happy-go-lucky lets save the tress and feed Africans turn around and demand the right to inject a fetus with potassium chloride (stops the heart) and suck it out with a vacuum.

When it comes to healthcare for children with pre-existing conditions, screw em', they're on their own, say republicans and tea partiers. Enforce all fetuses to become human only to ditch them in a libertarianist world where every man is for himself, makes sense to you right? How about we force rape victims to just "suck it up" and deal with the further pain of pregnancy as well? Wonderful idea there.

As for comparing human beings to week old fetuses, there goes that definition of life again. Theres almost this assumption that life begins and conception, conservatives want to draw the line and the rest of us must follow. Right. Me, I don't personally support abortions for convenience sakes, but I do support a woman's right to make her decisions, and especially for those woman in unfortunate circumstances, it is incredible how there are people who insist to make these victims lives harder. As if the crime of force wasn't enough, they need to experience it from government and the public.

I'm pro-choice only because I'm a man. I think the Left though does major damage to especially young girls by advising abortions and making them seem ok, they end up an emotional mess with long lasting mental issues

You believe in forcing rape victims to spend a further 6 or so months taking in the pain of pregnancy ....and you wanna talk to me about their emotional issues?? Victims of molestation? The cure to their emotional pains is to force them to take up pregancy? And obviously, obviously you have no issue throwing money and government oversight onto this matter. The one thing you support to increase government on eh?

Regarding the right of th males, I'm a male and I believe my rights only go so far as in choosing to have intercourse with another woman. I don't fall pregnant, I don't have to feel the pain of pregnancy during 9 months, I don't have to carry that baby. The woman has to go through this as she is female. All I have to do is just ditch her and that's that, I don't have any further ties other than my DNA.

Until men gain the responsibility of being tied somehow to a woman's pregnancy, and mean physically, they don't have control as to how a woman handles a pregnancy. The woman has the baby in her body, she decides, anything beyond that and it is force. I know full well what I am getting myself into when I am with another woman, I need to take responsibility of that fact as a man, you have to, all men do.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


It's ironic you say "the emotional pain" they go through lol,
Me and my math teacher were actually discussing this yesterday afternoon and actually the people that DO get abortions usually have emotional issues because they eventually realize...Hey, I killed someone. And not just anyone, I killed MY kid. Not trying to dispute any beliefs or promote any of my own, just giving some insight. I personally know some girls that have went through abortion and usually there are supremely heavy feelings of remorse for the rest of their life. I mean sure at first an abortion as an easy answer but I don't think most people feel the real feelings and understand the magnitude of their actions until after the operation.

Originally posted by Se7enex
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

It's ironic you say "the emotional pain" they go through lol!
Me and my math teacher were actually discussing this yesterday afternoon and actually the people that DO get abortions usually have emotional issues because they eventually realize...Hey, I killed someone.

Obviously woman go through emotional pains when they carry out abortions, it is not an easy thing, that was never the argument. At the same time, there are woman, many of whom are victims of rape, of unspeakable crimes, young girls, who should not have to experience the force of government or a mob of political opportunists over their own bodies.

Do you support criminalizing a woman who was raped over the decision of her getting an abortion? You support funding for this? It is horrible that people have to suffer the emotional pain of one incident, and then they have to make the decision for another, and then have that right to decision, that control over their own destiny stripped away by government. This only forces them right back into the same situation they felt during the crime committed to them.

I personally know some girls that have went through abortion and usually there are supremely heavy feelings of remorse for the rest of their life.

Obviously, it's not an easy decision, but that is not excuse enough to put the rule of government, the force of government, on american citizens who wish to make these decisions themselves over their own bodies. The debate was never about the emotional issues that many woman experience when making the decision of abortion. It's about the right to one's own body.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Do you support criminalizing a woman who was raped over the decision of her getting an abortion?

Do they actually state that rape victims will have to pay for an abortion or are you merely assuming that fact??

Apart from that, I don't see why my tax dollars should go to people that are too lazy to use birth control..

The sick sure but healthy, lazy people, NO......

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Personally I don't have an exact standpoint on abortion/religion. It's one of those iffy subjects. I just know if I was ever to get pregnant, I would not get an abortion. I can't kill animals or anything like that so killing my own child would be unthinkable. Let's not forget though that America was founded upon Christianity. Am I a Christian? No. But America was founded on it and therefore we should follow the rules set forth by both Christianity and our FF. Unfortunately America is different and we live in a country governed by people who pay no attention to what we were both founded upon and the documents like the constitution and the amendments left by our ancestors. I personally think right now America is a very confused country as we seem to be migrating away from our core values and adopting new ones that don't necessarily benefit everyone. In my eyes abortion is premeditated murder. You're full willingly taking a child and killing it. It doesn't matter if it's yet to be born or not it's murder.

Originally posted by Se7enex
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Personally I don't have an exact standpoint on abortion/religion. It's one of those iffy subjects. I just know if I was ever to get pregnant, I would not get an abortion. I can't kill animals or anything like that so killing my own child would be unthinkable. Let's not forget though that America was founded upon Christianity. Am I a Christian? No. But America was founded on it and therefore we should follow the rules set forth by both Christianity and our FF. Unfortunately America is different and we live in a country governed by people who pay no attention to what we were both founded upon and the documents like the constitution and the amendments left by our ancestors. I personally think right now America is a very confused country as we seem to be migrating away from our core values and adopting new ones that don't necessarily benefit everyone. In my eyes abortion is premeditated murder. You're full willingly taking a child and killing it. It doesn't matter if it's yet to be born or not it's murder.

edit on 21-5-2011 by Se7enex because: (no reason given)

More confused then ever before I dare say and its only going to get worse before it gets better. Hope some relief comes in time before we become a 3rd world country.

Originally posted by Se7enex
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Personally I don't have an exact standpoint on abortion/religion. It's one of those iffy subjects. I just know if I was ever to get pregnant, I would not get an abortion.

That's a good decision. I do personally frown upon those who make the decisions not to have a baby out of convenience, that is, those who made the choice to have intercourse and who found themselves in that position. I also saw this documentary on a woman who was raped and made the decision to keep the baby, people like that are emotionally strong and I must say I admire a person for making choice. At the same time I understantand why a victim of a crime would consider the option. In either case, I would not want government or any force over a woman's body.

Let's not forget though that America was founded upon Christianity.

Unless Christianity is based only on Life, liberty and freedom, I disagree with this. The United states was not founded upon a christian foundation, hence the signing in Tripoli during the late 18th century. But that's another thread I guess.

In my eyes abortion is premeditated murder. You're full willingly taking a child and killing it. It doesn't matter if it's yet to be born or not it's murder.

Well if that's your personal view then I can understand. But to me, abortion is not a black and white issue. Any anti-abortion law is in my opinion force upon a woman's own body. I also believe it makes the situation worse.

Originally posted by Rockpuck


Personally, I always thought it was weird that Liberals support abortion .. the people that are all happy-go-lucky lets save the tress and feed Africans turn around and demand the right to inject a fetus with potassium chloride (stops the heart) and suck it out with a vacuum.

It's not about 'supporting' abortion. It's about refusing the right's attempts to interfere with medical decisions that should be left between a doctor and a patient.

Abortion's an ugly issue, because no-one denies that an abortion prevents a life that could have been formed from forming. However, there are complicated grey areas and any sort of legislation against abortion will inevitably trample the individual's rights and potentially their safety.

The simple fact is, if you don't approve of abortion you don't have to get one. There's no reason to force your opinions on anyone else. (I know you are pro-choice, this is not a direct response to you but rather anyone who favors anti-abortion laws). Instances of rape and incest, cases where the fetus will not survive the birth, cases where the health of the mother will be severely compromised by the birth... These are all situations where an abortion would be considered.

I don't think anyone advocates abortion as a form of birth control. Some people choose to do it, but their reasons should be their own. We shouldn't allow ideology to interfere with any medical decision, in my opinion.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


Yeah no kidding!
I think when I reach the age and attain some money i'm gonna leave. I just have a feeling that something bad is going to happen. Then again, EVERYONE hates America for good reasons, so I guess there is more then enough reason to think something bad will happen

There is always a reason for this country to be hated on. No other country comes close to both the horrors and accomplishments this country has achieved over the last few centuries. The biggest problem so far is taxes and anything else that leaves us with broke pockets.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Do they actually state that rape victims will have to pay for an abortion or are you merely assuming that fact?

I don't actually support tax payer funded abortions, but obviously we are not talking about the obligation of tax payers in this country. The measures against abortion have not been purely those of tax dollars, it is against abortion period.

Apart from that, I don't see why my tax dollars should go to people that are too lazy to use birth control.

Ah yes, those rape victims (including children) didn't think to use birth control. How unthoughtful!


I could fully understand your first point, but in the second one you lost me.

reply to post by Stop-loss!


There is a very good compromise to this. End any direct tax payer support to abortions (even family planning that may make it an option) and leave the decisions of american citizens over their own bodies the hell alone.

We save tax payer money funding abortions. We end government oversight over abortion that is costly.

More freedom to people to make the life changing decisions they need to, decrease government spending.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Do they actually state that rape victims will have to pay for an abortion or are you merely assuming that fact?

I don't actually support tax payer funded abortions, but obviously we are not talking about the obligation of tax payers in this country. The measures against abortion have not been purely those of tax dollars, it is against abortion period.

Apart from that, I don't see why my tax dollars should go to people that are too lazy to use birth control.

Ah yes, those rape victims (including children) didn't think to use birth control. How unthoughtful!
I could fully understand your first point, but in the second one you lost me.

What a stupid comment...
Obviously by my first statement I wholeheartedly support taxpayer funded abortions for rape victims etc..

Way to spin BS mate..

Originally posted by backinblack
What a stupid comment...
Obviously by my first statement I wholeheartedly support taxpayer funded abortions for rape victims etc.

Yep, there was no need to generalize everybody who gets an abortion as a bunch of lazy people. You included rape victims in that generalization and you know it. Please, continue making excuses.