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Originally posted by filosophia
well that's no way to treat a wife. You should be nice to her and treat her with respect. Maybe that warm bowl of soup is meant for her.
Originally posted by filosophia
Originally posted by AceWombat04
In your opinion or belief, why are you trapped in a cycle of reincarnation to begin with? Why are you a demi-god, rather than god? Why are you trapped within a mortal form? (And by extension, why, in your opinion or belief, are we all?)
Peace.
We become trapped in these cycles through ignorance of our true nature. The human form is an advanced species, in fact one step below God-realization. If we can gain this knowledge in this lifetime, we become god-like. When we die, we no longer return as a human being but instead stay as the infinite. It is because of our attachment to material objects that we reincarnate again and again as a human body.
But how do you believe we became ignorant of our true nature in the first place? If the premise is that we have a true nature that is beyond this corporeal reality (this reality being largely or wholly illusory) then how did this "true self" become trapped within this supposed cycle of reincarnation in the first place? Or do you believe we come into existence ignorant from the outset, and have to - essentially - "work our way up?" And if so, why is that the case in your opinion? If this reality is an illusion which keeps us ignorant of our true natures and the infinite, why does the illusion exist in the first place at all? I have seen people answer this question by saying, "in order for us to learn." But if our true nature is infinite, what does "the infinite" need with learning? It's infinite, isn't it? These are the questions which always plague me when delving into this philosophical subject matter and end up leaving me skeptical. Not because I'm attatched to material existence - if anything, I would just as soon be gone from this reality and from the ego and all that comes with it, even if that meant that I would no longer have any concept of self or identity (if such a thing is indeed possible) - but simply because these are legitimate questions that no one ever seems able to address. Can you give me answers to these questions that avoid that conclusion?
Originally posted by filosophia
Sorry, the rapture already happened, I'm not allowed to answer any more questions on this thread. Or maybe I just don't feel like it. There's over 400 replies, surely you have not read them all?
Originally posted by AceWombat04
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
:
- Why do those ostensibly trying to enlighten us and free us from our prison place such great emphasis then upon "escaping" from the illusion and reacquainting ourselves with our "true selves", if we/it/whatever entered into it by choice? If we were infinite, and chose to become entangled in something less than infinite by choice, wouldn't that choice be a part of our "true selves" as well? Ergo, wouldn't this ostensibly illusory reality be an aspect of our "true selves?"
That's making the assumption that "those" know what they speak of. They might be wrong, and simply speak of their own truth or beliefs (the same could be said of my original post). But lets just say they are right, and it is our purpose in life to "re-awaken" why would it be a contradiction? If a child wanted to drive a car, would you infringe on his/her free will by not taking his/her choice seriously? Put another way, have you ever had a lucid dream experience? If you have then you would know the feeling on gets once he/she realizes that it is all a dream and any limitation is self imposed. Personally I do not like the term "true self", because it implies that your current self isn't true which I believe loses purpose of incarnations. Once you view life as a game played by all different characters with choice added to become one thing or another, then in my eyes it becomes more about experience rather than making "right choices".
- What is being proposed is that we need to free ourselves from this illusory reality in order to reconnect with our true natures and become one with the infinite, presumably because that existence would be freer, more true, and more representative of the ultimate reality rather than an illusory reality. Okay, that sounds great. But why then would the infinite get "bored" as you propose? If that existence is more desirable than this one, why would "it" want to leave that state? If it's to interact with something, as you say, then is not this reality a necessary component of the whole (as you said, a limiting word) that facilitates that?
Again see above. I don't think "true existence" is being the whole; true existence is all the above. If you get to the point of "true enlightment" (if such a way of Being is possible in human form) and have the ability to rise rank, or go to the highest rank (infusion with the whole), then choice is there. Again not to kill the analogy, but think of it like a video game where you have fun playing it through. This video game is special however, in that it has infinite endings, infinite plots, infinite goods guys and bad guys, and it is up to the player to decide if he/she is satisfied and wants to end his/her game, or start a new one as a different character (could choose the bad guys this time). .
- If it didn't leave that state of infinite oneness, and it still exists in that state simultaneous with this more finite reality (and, presumably, many others,) then why, again, is there emphasis placed on escaping from this paradigm? It seems necessary to facilitate, or at least a natural consequence of, the infinite, since the infinite would naturally contain every possibility including this reality, would it not?
I think the term ignorance is bliss applies. Knowing all and being all, though certainly not lacking, has it's draw backs. Would you rather be an Einstein genius that has figured out all possibilities in the game of chess, or would you rather be a person with higher intelligence than average and know how to play (and hence have competition among peers?). Look at a child and their wonder of life, everything is fresh, new, and exciting. Would you see an old man has having an advantage because he has saw and experienced almost all that that child will eventually experience? EDIT: For whatever reason my original post didn't save in whole, so for this point I'll have to write from what I thought I wrote lol.
Just remember that if a person says you must do this or that for this reason or another, it is a good idea to take it with a grain of salt. I read a lot of comments of people that consider themselves spiritual and disapprove of Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs because of what they believe is repressive practices and dogma, yet suscribe to their own form. Tell me the difference between choosing right or wrong based on commandments or based on "wanting to become enlightened"? Tell me the difference between wanting to escape this illusion to emerge with the whole and become enlightened or reaching God in heaven through the process of Christ consciousness? If you do bad, or sin you go to hell, if you do bad then you create hell for yourself through karma. Both are very similar, only the terms and explainations change.
This is all my opinion of course and I offer no proof whatsoever. I have come to my own conclusions (which is still evolving) from my studies of spiritually, philosophy, and religon as well as my experiences and observations of myself and others. These are my own personal thoughts from asking myself similar questions such as the ones you asked yourself. All your questions are valid and anyone seriously studing their purpose in life should approach the subject matter with a critical mind. If we were made with such minds, why would it be heresy to use them? Peace be to you brother and I wish you well with your queries.
edit on 31-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)edit on 31-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)edit on 31-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)