Truth

I haven't practiced every religion, and thank God for it. You don't have to practice every religion to find truth. I'm not pitching a religion here to find truth. You cannot find truth from scripture, because scripture cannot be proved.

I was born Christian, and still believe Jesus came here with a message. I cannot subscribe to Christianity, or any deviation of it. The church is corrupt.

The bible delivers such a simple message that was appropriate for the time. But with all the latest scientific discoveries, and truth being found, I cannot accept scripture as truth. "God" must have spent a lot of time creating the fascinating fields of science and mathematics. Now we have all of these cool quantum physics studies, cosmology, mathematical models, and the bible overlooks it because it would have made no sense in the time.

Why would God create all of this awesome physical realness for us to explore, yet ask us to deny it and kill goats for him? Why does God need a sacrifice? I don't think "God"=he=she=it needs that.

Religion was created to control the masses. Guess what, the masses are asses.

Don't accept truth for what is delivered to you on a plate on Sunday. Seek truth.

I have to believe man created God in his image, not the other way around. It seems unreal to me that people accept God as the way it is taught in church, because any God that would create the physical realness we experience wouldn't be so critical of the monotonous worship we provide him.

My message should be delivered in a book and not a post because there is more to it. Let me break it down for you to discover it for yourself. Research the history of your scripture. Research the history of all scripture. Learn that you are not a robot. You are a consciousness. You are part of a whole. Your whole doesn't need physical sacrifice, because truth is not physical. We live in a game, a game to expand our consciousness.

In a recent post I explain the difference between the life in your head and the life in your shoes. Seek your truth.

Cool, something a bit diffrent, What you say has a lot of truth to it.
There is many more people turning up latley (my self included) that thinks exactly like this.
Im not sure about the chicken egg, god man,, what came first debate, i dont care..
But i have often thought as we get nearer to a truth, its whisked away into the fog so we can contiue the journey, what good would it be if we actually understood everything?its more fun to be playing the game from the inside, then to understand it and just watch from the outside..
Was the earth flat ? at one stage it was.. man couldnt travel out far enough to care about edges... then one day man went im going fro a walk.. god said oh (snip) i better do something about that... i know lets get rid of the edges.. and then there was a ball... man built a better telescope,, god though in a few more stars...
and so on and so on..
but what is man and god, as you say we are the same..
so when we say the hand of god is in heaven (space) then low and behold we find the hand of god...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/98f073dd241e.jpg[/atsimg]
someone said the universe is like a giant internet browser.. and the firefox galaxy was born...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1e706ad04c19.jpg[/atsimg]
eye of god.. yep add that into it as well...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b9b1a7c6c495.jpg[/atsimg]

god and ourselves like to have a bit of fun at each others expense.. its a fun game if you want it to be. you just have to look around..

Hello,
First of all, you were not born a Christian. No one has ever been born a Christian from their mothers womb. You were born in the image of your parents, and if you would have done some research into the Scriptures then these facts would not be lost on you.

Let me ask you something. Have you ever sat down with a Hebrew/Greek dictionary and concordance and a Holy Bible and researched a particular subject? A subject such as sacrifice maybe? You should try it and see how far it goes. The Bible is the most cohesive and comprehensive complete thought ever written and compiled into one collection of books. Something Moses carved on his staff thousands of years ago can answer and explain something written by Paul in a prison cell when they seem to have nothing to do with each other at first examination. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture.

Truth? You are far from it my friend. Truth isn't even on your radar right now. However, Jesus is ready to forgive you and embrace you again when you realize your folly.

God bless.

reply to post by sprocket2cog


I appreciate that what you have told me is a bit different. But I cannot understand why it is different. It took many years for me to explore reality outside of my born faith, and now that I seek it the universe seems to have expanded.

Surely, others have been on the same path as myself. Apparently we all have to find this for ourselves. I will not admit this to my loved ones, because they are happy in their faith. I am not. I need more. I don't want to corrupt them, I don't want them to corrupt me.

Obviously this had to have been explored before, I am not creating anything new.

Originally posted by HEisRiSeN2012

Let me ask you something. Have you ever sat down with a Hebrew/Greek dictionary and concordance and a Holy Bible and researched a particular subject? A subject such as sacrifice maybe? You should try it and see how far it goes. The Bible is the most cohesive and comprehensive complete thought ever written and compiled into one collection of books. Something Moses carved on his staff thousands of years ago can answer and explain something written by Paul in a prison cell when they seem to have nothing to do with each other at first examination. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture.

I do appreciate your response from a 10,000 year old earth. I have sought your answers in ancient scripture. However, I live in the year 2011 and they do not provide the answers I need.

I never took the time with a Hebrew/Greek dictionary, because honestly nobody with a conscious mind seeks truth in that. Your bible is a compilation of works that have been put together over years that you cannot really defend. Over 90 authors, put together by a monarchy to control masses.

I ask you to open your mind. If you can live happily in your fairy tail, please don't allow me to discredit it. If you are seeking truth- open your mind.e

reply to post by HEisRiSeN2012


I realise you are adressing the op, but when you talk about sacrifice, it made my ears pick up..
i too went for "THe Walk" one day to find jesus and ask him what it was all about, what i should do.. where i should go.."
You know what i choose to sacrifice?
Myself..
you know what for ?
Everybody...
I choose to fall into the pit, for my sins, not to die, not to save my self, but to find anyone who needed to be found.
One day i was at church, there was a picture on the wall of jesus pulling people from a river, saving them...
I asked the person sitting beside me.
"where do you see yourself in that picture?"
he said,"why im in the waters getting salvation from jesus why what do you see?
i said , "i see myself beside him helping pull them up as well.."
he went "oh i hadnt thought of that before, " and got up and walked off..
We all are the sons of god, jesus never said we couldn't also be like him, but we have to make the same sacrifices.. would you be willing to be the last one out of the pits of hell, to make sure every body got home. to sacrifice yourself for every other person that ever lived or wever will?
Jesus is real, what you say i real. but as you know there were others outside the garden in the beginning, not all of us are demons.. the bible never said all the others are evil. just some..
just as evil hides amongst the good, so to does the good shine amongst the evil.
You have grabbed a thread from the cloth that makes up the tapestry of life, that leads to a place called heaven though jesus, it weaves its self amongst other threads.. but not all lead to the same place. and not everyone walks the same path, but it dosnt make it wrong , or right, it just is...
as all roads lead home.. just the journey might be a little different sometimes.
I dont pretend to be jesus, but i do walk beside him, because even jesus might like someone to help him with the load some days,
I am the rear guard, one who waits for the last man to come home.. no one gets left behind..
that is my lot in life. not to walk the sheep track, but to wonder the dark forrests looking for those that want to come home..
but this is just the story i choose to tell. yours seems like the same story many are telling.. whats diffrent about your story? thats the fun stuff, the bits that arnt the same.
when you walk with jesus, and he says i been here a long time waiting for you, tell me something fun and interesting, what will you tell him.
peace and travel well good friend..
may you truly find what you seek.

reply to post by mathematic


Jesus might have came with a message (if he did exist) but he would be human, like you or i. Like Ghandi, like Martin Luther King - except less moral.

Even if we grant you the miracles (immaculate conception, vicarious redemption, water to wine) it still doesn't prove that he was sent by "GOD" or that his moral or ethical teachings are thereby correct.

The thread title is misleading. Christianity and jesus is not "truth". It's myth, legend and speculation regarding the cause of reality.

reply to post by mathematic


Let me just ask you this... if everything was broken up into time and space.. like it is now.. then at somepoint things would get created.. so why couldnt you be the one to walk this path for the first time in this current period....
its like laying out a deck of cards, they are all there to be seen.. but lay them out one at a time so that we only see one at a time, percive one at a time.. and all of a sudden we cant know what comes next, so to our limited minds that we have imposed on our selves to create this illusiojn, we could be walking here for the first time..
its not weather we really are or not, as time and place isnt real...
its how we think about it..
so why not think.. gee this is the first time its been done like this...
or not...
the choice is yours..
Walk the path you wnt to.. make it your own.. someone might like the story.. and thats what is about..
I hope im not telling you too much, but i feel we wouldnt be here doing this, if you didnt want to hear it..
travel well friend. find a good story to tell.
make every day feel like its new, its more fun that way,
peace
edit in response to your post below, yes he is one gate on one road, there is so many more as im sure you are seeing for yourself.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I never said Jesus was truth. He is a gateway.

I cannot fathom that the God who created me allowed me to perceive reality as - - - gay. Yeah, it's gay if we have to live our life the way prescribed by the bible.

God would not allow this perception if that's how we were to live. Nothing against homosexuals, they're going where I go after this ride.

reply to post by mathematic


I disagree that he is the gateway.

I don't think i am (or anyone is) bound by a human sacrifice and i don't think his death absolves the "sin" of an entire species of animal.

Many tribes and civilisations are still unaware of the story.

He also wasn't the best moral teacher. He told people that they must leave their families to follow him, without exception (dying, starving family members)

Luke 14:26-27
“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.”

Furthermore, we still can't prove the miracles, and even if granted, it still doesn't verify he was sent by the controller of the universe or that his moral and ethical teachings were thereby correct.

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34) is one of the controversial statements reported of Jesus in the Bible.

As Hitchens has said ""Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."

It's as if monotheists believe that before the 10 commandments were handed down to Moses, that humans had no concept of human suffering, It's as if Christians believe without God we would all be killers, murderers, rapists and theives - I think that's an insult to intelligence and our legacy of altruism as a species.

Listen guys,
You cannot claim to know Jesus and walk beside Him while only knowing of Him and not personally KNOWING Him. People do not walk different paths to the same goal...

Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

Religion was absolutely created to rule and control the masses and direct them into that wide gate which leads to destruction. Christianity has suffered the same fate over the years that Judaism has suffered and that fate is Paganism. Paganism has always been the number one tool of the enemy to confuse the saints and destroy their faith through lies and propaganda. All false faiths on the planet come from the same source and that source is Paganism. Islam is the worship of the moon God. Hinduism is the worship of demons. Humanism is the worship of ones self and all have at their core the worship of the creation and not the Creator.

Jesus is the only way, the only truth and the only life. Only by faith in His sacrifice and resurrection can we have a way to go where He went. I can "coexist" with people of other faiths while on this planet because the Lord has commanded us to love all people and to show them the love of God. The greatest thing I can do for another person is to tell them of Jesus and attempt to lead them to Him. (with the Holy Spirit of course) I would never attempt to force my convictions on someone who was unwilling to listen and to spread the Gospel by the sword is complete garbage. Jesus knows who will listen and receive Him and who will not.

Knowing Jesus is not a religious thing. You have to have a relationship with Christ and the only way to have this relationship is through reading the Word, through fasting and through prayer. Jesus never came to start a new religion... He came to be known.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by mathematic

 

I disagree that he is the gateway.

I don't think i am (or anyone is) bound by a human sacrifice and i don't think his death absolves the "sin" of an entire species of animal.

Many tribes and civilisations are still unaware of the story.

He also wasn't the best moral teacher. He told people that they must leave their families to follow him, without exception (dying, starving family members)

Luke 14:26-27
“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.”

Furthermore, we still can't prove the miracles, and even if granted, it still doesn't verify he was sent by the controller of the universe or that his moral and ethical teachings were thereby correct.

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34) is one of the controversial statements reported of Jesus in the Bible.

As Hitchens has said ""Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."

It's as if monotheists believe that before the 10 commandments were handed down to Moses, that humans had no concept of human suffering, It's as if Christians believe without God we would all be killers, murderers, rapists and theives - I think that's an insult to intelligence and our legacy of altruism as a species.

edit on 20/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Im pretty sure i've explained that passage to you before my friend. It doesn't mean leave your parents or family. It means don't love materialism...

And as for the OP...

You call Jesus a Gateway, yet you say truth isn't in the bible...

perhaps ye might clarify that for me?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


You are supposed to be aware and awake?

Ha! You are more asleep than most!

reply to post by HEisRiSeN2012


Then you should know that fasting isn't necessary what so ever...

reply to post by HEisRiSeN2012


Riveting tale, chap

Originally posted by HEisRiSeN2012
Listen guys,
You cannot claim to know Jesus and walk beside Him while only knowing of Him and not personally KNOWING Him. People do not walk different paths to the same goal...

That depends on the goal, what is jesus really asking us to do, and once we find him, is the personal message going to be the same, the bible is just the map, jesus is the guide, the goal is yoursellf
surely there is more then one path to the gate, just because some of us take the back roads to the city, dosnt make it less of the same city..

Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

This i see as a parable, for what is truley the narrow gate ?
is this actualy say there is but one gate for all, or that all gates are narrow, hinting that the gate for each of us is actually though ourselves? is the reason the gate narrow because no one else can pass it, they must pass though their own narrow gate in their heart and soul.
and is not the road that all the Christians take wide ? isnt the path we cut ourselves up the mountain going to be the narrow path..

Religion was absolutely created to rule and control the masses and direct them into that wide gate which leads to destruction. Christianity has suffered the same fate over the years that Judaism has suffered and that fate is Paganism. Paganism has always been the number one tool of the enemy to confuse the saints and destroy their faith through lies and propaganda. All false faiths on the planet come from the same source and that source is Paganism. Islam is the worship of the moon God. Hinduism is the worship of demons. Humanism is the worship of ones self and all have at their core the worship of the creation and not the Creator.

What is Christianity if not a religion ? if not a control...
You argue that any path not of one son is wrong, but are we not all sons of god.. nd if we make the same sacrafice in the heart as jesus, have we not found our own narrow gate?

Jesus is the only way, the only truth and the only life. Only by faith in His sacrifice and resurrection can we have a way to go where He went. I can "coexist" with people of other faiths while on this planet because the Lord has commanded us to love all people and to show them the love of God. The greatest thing I can do for another person is to tell them of Jesus and attempt to lead them to Him. (with the Holy Spirit of course) I would never attempt to force my convictions on someone who was unwilling to listen and to spread the Gospel by the sword is complete garbage. Jesus knows who will listen and receive Him and who will not.

Thank you my friend, at least you show some sense, that you chose to give people a choice to find the path themselves. but how can you be sure that the word wasnt written to fool us into a path that isnt what we are searching for? are we all after the same prize? did you stop to think that we might actually be traveling a section of the road together, but that at a crossroad in life our ways would part , im sure you know that the bilbe tells the storys of the others, but while it says there is evil others, it never actually says all the others are evil.
just as wolves hide in the sheep, wearing the skin of a lamb. so to do angels hide dressed as demons to help us from the dark...

Knowing Jesus is not a religious thing. You have to have a relationship with Christ and the only way to have this relationship is through reading the Word, through fasting and through prayer. Jesus never came to start a new religion... He came to be known.

Knowing jesus is religion.. yes you have to have a relationship with christ to reach the heaven that is portrayed to the masses.. i agree he didnt come to start a new relgion. and im also sure, he knows those who would die to save him.. if we needed to.

and as a little story, one i think of all the time...
"while travelling on the road up the mountain i passed jesus, he was listening to his mp3 player, bob marley could just be heard coming from his headphones.. I nodded to him, and he smiled and winked back.. we knew each other, and no words were needed, we both knew we had taken the hard road by ourselves. and he knew i had choosen to stay on the road until the sun went down and it was dark, and he liked that, not everyone was ready to wait for the last man, some were just in a hurry to get to the gate, with as many sheep as they could in tow.. and in the rush, they actually didnt see him for who he was.."
if jesus came to you and said hey im jesus.. we would not belive.. he never left.. and thats the sad thing, many of us pass him and turn our nose up, because we just think it is some thief in the night..

reply to post by HEisRiSeN2012


You are presenting doctrinal platitudes, only giving meaning on the assumption of 'faith', which in this case means YOUR faith.

If you choose to preach, referring to faith as an autonomous way of finding reality, you should remember, that you're competing with some 50.000 other faiths or denominations, claiming THEIR version as THE version. And then you can quibble with them. Even start a little violent skirmish, if you're that kind of christian.

If you see fit to lower yourself to include some rational arguments, they better BE rational, as non-theists usually have some knowledge of science/logic/philosophy etc. and don't buy any fakes.

Your move.

reply to post by sprocket2cog

This i see as a parable, for what is truley the narrow gate ?
is this actualy say there is but one gate for all, or that all gates are narrow, hinting that the gate for each of us is actually though ourselves? is the reason the gate narrow because no one else can pass it, they must pass though their own narrow gate in their heart and soul.
and is not the road that all the Christians take wide ? isnt the path we cut ourselves up the mountain going to be the narrow path..

This isn't a parable actually its very clear what the path is... and why its so hard to follow.

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

This IS the path my friend... And truely in this time very few walk it.

Its the path of spiritual progression...

The path of love..