"Cash For Clunkers" announced for electric cars.

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by jibeho

 

I didn't say anything about it being a cash for clunkers trade in program. I simply stated that you say it is a scam to make people pay their taxes so they can get the rebate but the source you quoted says the government wants to change it so the people get the rebate at the dealership.

I am attempting to comment on that and that alone. I am curious how it can be a scam to make you file your taxes if they give you the rebate off of the price of the car at the dealership (which means you would get it without filing your taxes)?

I'm not sure what relevancy the fraud regarding electric vehicle tax credits has with this discussion. In fact the fraud only further reinforces that changing the rebate from being received on your taxes to being received on the invoice at the time of purchase would be beneficial.

As for who actually gets the money if the rebate is applied to the dealership I would think the answer would be obvious. If I go to buy a car that stickers for $35,000 and I only pay $27,500 because there is a credit on the statement for the tax rebate then yes I did indeed receive $7,500 realized through the savings on the final invoice.

And as for the dealerships being able to record the vehicle selling at full price thanks to the rebate change I ask you to consider this: If I pay full price for the vehicle and receive the rebate on my taxes or if the government chips in the $7500 at the time of purchase makes no difference as to what the car sold for. Either way the automaker receives X amount for the purchase of the vehicle.

edit on 20-5-2011 by Dilligaf28 because: change grammer error

edit on 20-5-2011 by Dilligaf28 because: (no reason given)

You really are changing my words. I never mentioned a scam to "make people pay taxes" I said the program was a scam and then posted story detailing $30 million that was scammed from this program when they claimed the credit on their taxes. I also mentioned the problems of making this into a direct rebate program.

Second, who gets the money?? This is not a dealer sponsored incentive program like the majority of car buying incentives. Why should my tax dollars go to a "rebate" for someone to buy an electric vehicle when that rebate will be used to reimburse a manufacturer like GM who already has received a good chunk of tax payer "donations". The money keeps cycling back through the system that took it in the first place.

reply to post by jibeho

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Hey get your story straight!! This is no way a cash for clunkers program that you stated incorrectly. THis is just another tax credit scam that can only be claimed when you file taxes....

That statement seems to me to indicate that you feel this is a tax credit scam that can only be claimed when you file your taxes; in other words you have to pay taxes to get the money.

I am curious whether or not you plan to address my rebuttal of your statement that the automakers are using this as a way to record full sales prices for vehicles. After you have addressed my rebuttal I will be happy to address your question regarding the money staying in the system.

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by jibeho

 

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Hey get your story straight!! This is no way a cash for clunkers program that you stated incorrectly. THis is just another tax credit scam that can only be claimed when you file taxes....

That statement seems to me to indicate that you feel this is a tax credit scam that can only be claimed when you file your taxes; in other words you have to pay taxes to get the money.

I am curious whether or not you plan to address my rebuttal of your statement that the automakers are using this as a way to record full sales prices for vehicles. After you have addressed my rebuttal I will be happy to address your question regarding the money staying in the system.

I feel like I'm addressing a brick wall. The current program is a tax credit program that can only be claimed when you file taxes. They discovered $30 million in fraudulent claims. Obama wants to turn the program into a rebate program to avoid the tax credit problems.

Of course they are recording full sale price to pump the numbers. You list a nissan leaf for $32700 the $7500 current credit is issued and the customer now pays $25000. The dealer gets the credit and posts a $32700 sale. He's not eating anything and the sales numbers look good.

The whole $7500 tax credit idea came about from GM's lobby to get it for the Volt. For example GM gets to pump up their sales figures and bottom line whenever they sell a new Volt. They will show the full $41,000 sales price on their income statement, and also record the additional $7,500 as profit, which is above and beyond what they are making if they sold it at the post credit price of $33,500.

The federal government will then absorb the $7,500 in the form of issuing additional debt. It's circular accounting especially when you consider who owns GM. This was done solely for GM and yet it applies to all electrics included Golf Carts!! Which people have also gotten for FREE! in this program. Its a scam and now they want to turn it into cash at the dealer essentially. Paid for by the tax payers directly and not by adding to the never ending debt.

Will that suffice for ya.... In federally backed programs designed to boost sales the dealer won't get the shaft. When taxes increase on a business they don't absorb the cost they simply increase their pricing so the customer can pay for it.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


For that much money i would rather buy a viper.
I mean $40,500?
There are way 2 many things wrong with electric cars and the system (or lack there of) they have and then you put a tag of $40,500 on it?

Yeah no ill stick to gas as long as i can thank you.

Originally posted by GunzCoty
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

For that much money i would rather buy a viper.
I mean $40,500?

There are way 2 many things wrong with electric cars and the system (or lack there of) they have and then you put a tag of $40,500 on it?

Yeah no ill stick to gas as long as i can thank you.

If the EV1 project would've been allowed to continue we'd be considerably further ahead then what we are now so in that regard we are about a decade behind in the game.

Originally posted by abecedarian
I remember back in the early/mid 90's when CARB (California Air Resources Board- where the EPA takes cues from) was pushing electric vehicles and such (GM EV-1 anyone?) and Ed Begley Jr. bought one 'cause it would save the world, and it was potentially a multi-billion dollar subsidy. People did some research (doesn't take much research, just logical thought) and found that they could buy PZEV Cadillacs (at $40,000 each) to replace "gross polluter" vehicles, and that would clean up the air better than they could do by subsidizing EV's, and would be cheaper.

CARB, Big Oil and GM all conspired to kill the electric car!

Watch the video, "Who Killed The Electric Car?" here :
www.veoh.com...