Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by EvolEric
You are right, now since you are a Christian I have one question for you 'Trinity' believers. If the Son does not know the time, how then can He be
'God'? Does that not say the Son isnt the Father, or what you Christians call God? And if so call 'God' died on the cross, which is impossible
cause hes eternal, how are you still here breathing, and how is the universe still around?
You actually have two questions.
The short answer for question #1: You fail to distinguish pre-resurrection and post-resurrection Christ.
The long answer:
Hebrews 2 and Phil. 2:7 goes into detail on this 'issue' of not knowing the time/hour. In Hebrews 2, it's stated that Christ was made lower than
the angels for a little while. in Phil it is stated he emptied himself of all things. Ie, while he walked on Earth (and at the time he said that), he
was fully dependent on the Father as a Man and an example for us. So what did he empty himself of, and what was he before he was made lower than the
That leads us to the real question, who was he after his resurrection? That little while is over (as it is in our time line), and he's resumed his
rightful place above the angels at the right hand of the Father. So what does the Bible say about his deity now? He now knows all things as expressed
by Peter, a claim he did not refute, and expressed omnipotence (John 21:17, Mat 28:20), two attributes that only the tetragammaton possesses.
He also explains this change quite clearly in John 14 if you look closely enough. His description of himself after he leaves (read, resurrected) is
that The Father is in him, and he is in the Father. Where he is, the Father is. If you've seen the Father, you've seen Christ. He will send the
Holy Spirit, and the Father will send the Holy Spirit. He even nails the point home further by stating that where the Spirit is, He is, linking all
'3' of them together as one. Only after that he stops talking about a post resurrection body, and switches to present day does he say the Father is
greater than Him.
What should really ruffle peoples feathers who deny the deity of Christ is that all the OT saints that "saw" YHWH bowed down and worshiped Christ
(if you've seen me, you've seen the father). In fact, it cant be any other way. if you didn't see Christ you didn't see the Father (John
Further more, the 'tying up loose ends' answer is in Rev 1:1 in which God the Father revealed this time of restoration to Christ, and Christ in a
post resurrection sense does now know his hour. Read Rev 1:1 very carefully to understand what is being relieved to whom and why.
Secondly, compare Matthew 24:36 to Acts 1:6-7. In these two sections he is asked the same question, but gave a different answer. Before his
resurrection he did not know, and lets it known that that only the Father knows. After his resurrection he does not add that phrase, but instead says
it's not for YOU to know things the Father has put into his own authority. He did not say 'us', or 'not even the son'. His different way of
answering the same question twice implies that after the resurrection he does now know date/hour but will not speak it without the Fathers permission.
Now link that knowledge with Hebrews 2, Rev 1:1, Rev 10, John 1:1-3,14 and Psalm 2, 110, etc etc.
There's reasons why he would know after his resurrection and not before, but I'm going to let you do your own homework on that question. I've
given you a good starting point with the above information, and I could probably fill a library with more. I suggest you do your own home work, as
the answer might surprise you.
Now for your second question.
The short answer: You failed to recognize the Spirit of God is also the Creator, probably as a result of some flavor of Russelism. Additionally there
is a defined difference between Body, Soul, and Spirit, and you failed in reading comprehension ie, Gen 1:2, John 1:14, John 2:21, Luke 3:22 and Luke
The long answer:
Well, the 'where was the earth shattering Kaboom when he died!' question is really silly. The real question that should be asked is what exactly
died? Did his spirit die with his body too? Thankfully, Christ himself gave you that answer. If you recall, the Father gave him his Spirit in Luke
3:22 at his baptism (as a side note: that entire chapter is a beautiful representation of the trinity in plain site). Later, on the cross Christ in
Luke 23:46, he entrusts the Spirit to the Father, making him responsible for it, gives it up, and dies. The point being is, Christ's body was dead,
but his spirit was safely entrusted to the Father. As his Body was just the Tabernacle/temple (John 1:14, John 2:21) it does not mean the Spirit/Soul
died too, just the Spirits dwelling place.
Additionally, the Holy Spirit was not only involved in Creation (or Re-Creation depending on your interpretation of Gen 1:1-2), but 'he' was the
first aspect of God introduced into scripture, when 'he; 'brooded' over the waters in Gen 1:2 before the Tetragammaton spoke in Genesis 1:3.
As for the deity of Christ, I strongly follow Deut 6:3-4, in which the Lord our God is One Lord. Acknowledging just John 1:1 and Deut 6:3-4 alone
demands I recognize them as one. Not to mention the may other scriptures throughout the Old Testament that have certain abilities subscribed to YHWH
alone that Christ also performs on Earth. Isaiah also has plenty of scriptures that makes it plain that there is only One God, and he recognizes none
beside him including the "2' people talking in Isaiah 44:6. There's plenty more, but again I'm not going to list them all here.
Besides, Arianism or the modern day equivalent being Russellism and it's clones seems what your learning towards with your post. I'm gathering you
deny the deity of Christ, and then to confuse the matter more, throw in some sacred name movement cultism to focus on the endless disputes of the law
that Paul warns against in 1 Timothy 1 and Titus 3:9.
This is the one of the reasons I broke off Christianity, cause its absurd, and too many dumb people running around those churches. Read your
Scriptures, pray for the truth, and ask your Heavenly Father for the True Name of Himself and His Son. That is the Father is Yahuwah (YHWH) and His
Son is Yahuwshuwah.
Except I don't just read the the scriptures, I study them. Everything God has given to mankind has a reason and purpose. I do agree that very few
churches actually teach the word of God. This is why I do home fellowship only, under the guidance of a VERY few selective teachers. As an example,
Christians should be celebrating Passover -- not easter.
As for his Hebrew name which you used, which has various translations and interpolations, I prefer Yeshua as do most Messianic congregations.
Just as a thought, It's ironic that you use the name 'Yahuwshuwah' which is not located in any scriptures, yet tell people to read them. I'm not
sure exactly what that is about and kind of a confusing double standard if you ask me.
As for that spelling, I am familiar with Daud's 'formula' for this version of Christ's name as he based it mainly off of exodus 23 and I consider
it flimsy at best. The argument he presents for the word 'name' as it is used, can also mean "the Deity as being present with mortals" such as
it was used and implied in 1Ki 8:29, 2ki 23:27, and 1Ki 3:2. That representation fits the book of Joshua which was what Exodus 23's verse was
speaking of. Namely the Angel of the LORD that Joshua met, who just happens to be YHWH (Gen 16:7-13, Gen 22:15-18, Gen 33:11-13 etc) and in context
with John 17 as well (Ie, Isaiah 7:14 John 1:1, Matthew 1:23, etc) regarding his name, ie God is with us.
Those scriptures are not so easy to reconcile if denying the deity of Christ, but harmonizes the scriptures perfectly if you do.
Even more ironic is for you to use this variation of his Hebrew name that means YHWH is Salvation, yet Christ is the only Savior (Acts 4). Christ has
to be YHWH as Isaiah 43:11 is pretty clear who the savior is. He is/was/shall be YHWH, there is NO one else. You need to reconcile that on your
As for asking the Heavenly Father for just a name, I would implore people including you to pray to the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob for the truth
in full. Note the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob phrase. If a name is that important, then his answer should be rather direct and quick, no?
Have a good evening.