5-21-2011 Rapture... Get the facts strait...

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by soaringhawk

 

Works both ways, friend. God's name is above ALL names, and His name is Jehovah. Period. End of responses.

God is called Yahweh before he is called Jehova in the bible buddy but lets no split hairs as he is also called Adonay, El Shaddai etc etc. When will you Christians learn that multiple Gods are refered to in your bible not just one. That is why you find both solar and lunar cults in the bible. Moses and the jews are lunar - worshipping after sunset (the sabbath starting at sundown on Friday) and the Egyptians, Romans etc are solar worshipping the sun/son during the day. Do some research on religeous history and origins instead of relying on only one man made book and you will be suprised what you might learn

reply to post by TattooedWarrior


False god's are referred to in the Holy Bible. One Lord with many titles. One example of an idol is Molech.
Through out the Bible we read how there were Jews, not all, but there were some that followed the gods of foreigners. But God loved them and still does as they are His chosen and we, the Gentiles are grafted in.

That's why Paul says true Israel is the church. The real Jew is one inwardly and not outwardly.
True circumcision is of the heart and not the flesh. The Jews were not and are not righteous.
It is the divine will of God that He make a covenant with them. As a Christian I don't have all the answers but there is safety in what I do know and I can lean on that. I can trust in the Lord to protect me from falling away, falling into a lie and keep me on that straight narrow path.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


One lie makes it fall apart. I do know what I'm talking about. Muhammad denies Jesus is the Son of God and that's really all that's needed to show that hey, this guy is not from God.
But there's plenty more to show he wasn't. Where Jesus said to love our enemies, violence is given the a o k in Islam. Jesus made it clear as day of who He is and who the Holy Spirit is. Muhammad sure isn't it the Holy Spirit. Muhammad is no where mentioned in the Biblical books. He contradicted what's taught in both the Old & New Testament. Anti-Christ, because it denies the divinity of Jesus. Anti-God because he who denies the Son denies the Father. Where the Lord came to free us from sin and fulfill the law by His death & resurrection, Islam desires to bring man under another law claiming to be from God. Jesus sets us free, Islam enslaves. The Jews never kept the law. There are none righteous. You can't get salvation through works.

It is what it is and nothing you say can change it. Islam is a false religion and that goes for every single other path out there. No one but Jesus died for your sins. Muhammad surely had a rude awakening when he left this earth and met the real Lord. There are no levels of hell & heaven. There's no second chance. You can lie all you want, but the truth never changes and God does not change. Like every person born into this world, you have a fallen nature that can only be washed by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

There's no other name by which we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12

I was visited in a spiritual sense by the Lord in mid 2003. That led me to private prayer for weeks. Slowly reading the Holy Bible starting with the gospel according to Matthew. Eventually I had a true born again experience. Who I was, what I cared about, how I viewed myself, life and the world was all different.

No one can take that away from me and say it's a lie. Jesus is real, He and the Father are one and you will never have eternal life outside of Jesus the Christ. He alone is the one you must embrace.

He said it clear that He and He alone is the way, the truth and the life. God does not deny Himself. The scriptures were never corrupted. By the fruits people bear we will know them. The fruit of Christ is sweet and eternal life. There is only death in all else.
I hope some day I can count you as a brother and that you will know the real God.

Originally posted by soaringhawk

I was visited in a spiritual sense by the Lord in mid 2003.

Oh, I see now. Sorry, what was I thinking. I mean, clearly, you are right, since the "Lord" visited you.

Don't bother to answer. It's all clear now.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Visited in a spiritual sense. Not physically. In the sense of how all Christian's are Christian. No one seeks God. It is by grace through faith that we're saved and not of ourselves, so none can boast. You have a problem with what I said and yet believe Muhammad was visited by the angel Gabriel while he sat in a cave and that the Qu'ran existed in heaven always. The truth is the truth and until I was opened up to it, I didn't care about following Jesus Christ.

I was made to go to church as a kid and hated it. Jesus is Lord and every knee will bow. I know that no amount of talking to you or anyone that's not Christian will do any good unless the Holy Spirit works. It was the Father who did the works through His Son Jesus Christ. He came in the name of the Father and we Christians are to be like a little Jesus. We are to be imitator's of Him. May you some day come to know the truth!
John 3:3-8

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
..... Jesus is Lord and every knee will bow. ....

The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. (5:75)

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Your point? Jesus is the Word made flesh. So of course He ate and drank. You want to limit what God, the creator of the universe can do? the Lord [U]walked in the garden and spoke to Adam & Eve.

The Lord made for them clothing out of animal skin. Is it unimaginable that the Creator, who took physical form in the Old Testament, would come down to die for the sins of the world? That He would live as we do, except being without sin at all? The appearances in the Old Testament is the same Word that was born from the virgin Mary and died for the elect and the whole world.

You are jumping around because you have no defence. Jesus made it clear who He is, what He came to do and what we must do to be saved. So you are calling Him a liar. If he lied he can't be a prophet. He was a prophet and so much more.
He is God in flesh. The truth is what it is. There is no debate about it. You do what you do because you know no better. Just as I did what I did for the same reason. I was dead spiritually and so are you. We all are lost until the Holy Spirit makes us alive.

John 1:1-3


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Originally posted by soaringhawk



1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Who wrote that? John the Apostle? The BEST Christian Scholars say NO. The best secular scholars say NO. The historians say NO. You say yes (probably). Bravo!

The author - or better said authorS, since there were at least 2, are unknown, which is the case with all the authors in the New Testament except maybe a few letters from Antichrist Paul.

The whole John Gospel is a later development, strongly influenced by pagan philosophy (mostly greek) - where the authorS attempt to DEIFY Jesus - a stark contrast to the synoptic Gospels (the first three).

In fact, the verses you quoted are a direct copy of the greek logos theory which existed centuries before the authorS attributed them to John the Apostle.

So, your whole arguments, WHENEVER you bring any from the Gospels, or any NT writ for that matter are moot.

Since, the BOOKS themself are anonymous writings, none of them written by a single eye witness, and all of them written DECADES after Jesus.

But, of course you would shut your eyes before these facts, and you think you are better than all those CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS who acknowledge this.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


The letter's were written first and the gospel account's after. There weren't written decades after.
You've provided nothing beneficial and instead show you're ignorant of Biblical history.
Being a Biblical scholar means nothing. There are biblical scholars that deny scripture. Nice try.
The issue is you have a trouble with the truth and try to find a way around it.
The truth is, no one can follow God unless the Holy Spirit enters your life. No one seeks God.
And all their studies, all their time will amount to nothing just as your daily prayers amount to nothing. The Holy Trinity is shown from the very beginning in the creation story in Genesis.

I notice you quote this or that, you refer to so called Biblical scholars but offer nothing in defence of Islam. Nothing to defend what you hold onto it. And that's what matters. Unless the Holy Spirit comes in your life, you are lost and headed to hell. We all are. If I hadn't been saved, I'd be lost and eventually going to hell.

The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 16:17,18

This is exactly what the devil wants to do. Destroy the church, destroy God. But he cannot and is in fact on a leash. I have given you the fact's which you are unable to accept as true because you are blind to the truth just as the Jews were that called Jesus a blasphemer. As I said, one lie is all it takes and Islam is full of them.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
you refer to so called Biblical scholars but offer nothing in defence of Islam. Nothing to defend what you hold onto it. And that's what matters.

Unlike you, and the likes of you, full of EMPTY TALK about the "Holy Spirit" that has ENTERED YOU, and moot points like that, I, in fact offer proof for my claims:

Show me a single book, other than Qur'an, that:

- doesn't fall into any literary criteria
- has it's opening statement (Bismillah) made of 19 characters
- where the number 19 appears as a word once in that 6000+ verses book
- and it just so happens that the first words of that book to ever be revealed to the man are made of 19 words
- and although the chapter containing these words is the first revealed chapter, in the book itself it is chapter no. 96 - the 19th ch. from the end
- what's more weird, this ch. (96) has, guess what, 19 verses
- furthermore, this book has the word for "day" scattered throughout it exactly 365 times
- the word for month exactly 12 times
- the word for sea exactly 32 times (71.11111% out of 45 - amount of water on earth)
- and the word for land 13 times (28.88889% out of 45 - amount of land on earth)
- has "angel" mentioned 88 times, just as "devil" (88 times)
- has a chapter called "sun" each verse of which ends with the letter H(e) (Hydrogen/Helium - accidentally the main elements of the sun)
- has a chapter called "iron", which, is chapter no. 57 - the middle of the book sort to say - just like the middle of the iron isotopes (57)
- and the word "The iron" - "El hadid" has, by "pure chance" the numerical value of 57, whereas "iron" (Hadid) has a numerical value of 26 - absolutely coincidentally the atomic number of iron
- still more, it mentions "tree" 26 times, just as the word "plant"
- it also has "seven heavens" repeated 7 times. And even "The creation of the heavens" also 7 times.
- further, this book has the word "paradise" repeated 77 times - like the word "hell"
- it also has the word "man" repeated 23 times, just like "woman" and, this, just for the "fun", is also:
- the number of the human chromosomes (46) from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo; 23 each from mother and father.
- this utterly "unspectacular" book, being more than 1400 years old, has in it, the descriptions of:
-- the Big Bang -- the Expansion of the Universe -- the Big Crunch -- the Dark Matter -- the Black Holes -- the relativity of time -- the origin of iron from outer space -- the significance of fingertips -- the pain receptors in the skin, etc...
- further, in this "any book with good amount of pages", we find that it has:
-- 114 chapters, and the sum of the chapter numbers (1+2+...+114) is: 6555
-- the sum of the verses (7+286+...) is 6236
-- out of the total sum of ch. number plus number of v. (1 + 7, 2 + 286,) we get .... wait for it:
-- total of the odd numbers: 6555
-- total of the even numbers: 6236
-- interestingly, in this book the author makes a quite strange oath. "By the even and the odd ..." (Q, 89:3)
- now, this book has an even weirder property: it is NOT written chronologically - the author doesn't start with verse 1 of ch. 1, then writes verse 2 of ch. 1 etc ...
So, during hardship, getting tortured, attacked etc. for 23 years he writes a verse here and there, from totally DIFFERENT chapters, and the whole time he keeps in mind (since he cant ACTUALLY write/read) where which verse will go, in which chapter, after which verse etc.
AND ALL THAT WHILE CREATING A SUPREME MATHEMATICAL SYSTEM AND DESCRIBING SCIENTIFIC FACTS DISCOVERED THOUSAND+ YEARS LATER.

Nay, but those who disbelieve live in denial, And Allah, all unseen, surroundeth them. Nay, this is a glorious Qur'an! (Qur'an, 85:19-21)

The Holy Bible is a library of books consisting of history, prophecy, songs, poems, wise sayings of Solomon, the gospel accounts, the letters from the Apostles and the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. Just because people make profit off it, because there are many version's, means nothing. The text is still the same if you go with the KJV or ESV. The Qur'an has been changed and anyone can look up these changes. So that's also a lie that it hasn't.

You haven't offered any proof for Islam being true. As I said, one lie is all it takes to bring the whole thing down. Just one lie.
1 John 2:22,23

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

The so called scientific facts in the Qu'ran mean nothing and no supposed breakthroughs mean a thing.
The devil comes as an angel of light and so do the other fallen angels. He is the father of lies and full of counterfeit. The devil is full of knowledge. God uses His elect and those that are not His to carry out His will.

It's no wonder that there are similarities in religion's. The truth of God, of Jesus and what we must do to have salvation has been attacked and perverted from the beginning of the church.

Jude 1:1-4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

1 John 2:18,19

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."


They are perverter's of the truth and that is exactly what Muhammad was. He was deceived but also a liar and he's not in heaven. No one can claim to have the truth if they desire to draw people away from the true God and says that Jesus is not the Son of God. Truth is truth, a lie is a lie.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
You haven't offered any proof for Islam being true.

Are you blind? READ MY POST ABOVE. Find me ONE book that fulfills those criteria other than Qur'an!

Originally posted by soaringhawk
You haven't offered any proof for Islam being true. As I said, one lie is all it takes to bring the whole thing down. Just one lie.
1 John 2:22,23

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Even based on your anonymous quotes there - you cannot claim anything against Muhammed! Since we muslims, are the only NON CHRISTIAN faith who have a tenet of faith to BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST.

Let me repeat that for you: Muhammed TESTIFIED that Jesus is the Christ.


Bring more moot points from your anonymous writings ...

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


All you've shown me is that you have a misunderstanding of God, the Old & New Testament books, which you've probably not ever read in their entirety.
You've shown me you look to numbers and other things to try proving Islam is true.
That's why in Isaiah 53:1-6 we read, " 1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."


Proof shows there is more evidence for the historical reliability of the New Testament than any other ancient text.

Oh and since we are at the First Epistle of John, pray tell me, what happend to 1 John 5:7-8 - ya know, the one that says that there are three witnesses in heaven - the Father, the Word and The Spirit - and these three are ONE - you main "proof" for trinity until a few years back ...?

What's that? It's been thrown out as a FORGERY?

No way!

I thought your Bible wise the unchangeable Word of God!!


Bunch of forgeries and anonymous writings ...

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


You may claim to believe him as a prophet and the Messiah but not to the T.
That is where Islam falls apart. One lie is all it takes. It doesn't matter what anyone believes if you are believing a lie. Jesus was not only a prophet and He is not only the Christ. People had a misconception of Him of what the Messiah was supposed to be. You also do. Jesus was a prophet, He is the Messiah and He is the Son of God and all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily. He and the Father are one. There is nothing left to be said to you.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily. He and the Father are one.

Are they now? "Godhead" and stuff?

Read my post above about 1 John 5:7-8 --- ya know the one that you always used TO BASH US WITH - yelling "Look!!! Here is says and these three are ONE!!"

Ya know, the one that has now been THROWN OUT OF THE BIBLE as a clear FORGERY ...


Bunch of forgeries and anonymous writings ...

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


? Three bear witness in heaven. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three agree as one. It's not taken out. It's not a forgery.
I have my KJV, NKJV and my New Geneva Study Bible, NKJV and it's there. The N.I.V has scripture missing but that's because it's translated from a corrupt text. This is nothing new and any Christian that has learned Biblical history knows this. Colossians 2:8-10

" 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"

The Qu'ran however has been changed and anyone can find these changes. You are attacking me, taking this personally. But if you were after truth you wouldn't. But as I said, the truth is none seek God. Islam is a lie. Muhammad did not die for your sins and unless we are saved by the Lord Jesus there is no salvation.

May the Holy Spirit come upon you as a mighty rushing wind and awaken you to the truth of the one and only Lord Jesus Christ who reigns forever and ever! Amen.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

? Three bear witness in heaven. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three agree as one. It's not taken out. I have my KJV, NKJV and my New Geneva Study Bible, NKJV and it's there. The N.I.V has scripture missing but that's because it's translated from a corrupt text. This is nothing new and any Christian that has learned Biblical history knows this. The Qu'ran however has been changed and anyone can find these changes.

Oh what are you talking about?

It has been THROWN OUT of every modern BIBLE because it has been PROVEN that it is a clear FORGERY - it was INSERTED in the Bible as late as the 16th century!

I told you - you are shutting your eyes before the truth. I can imagine sitting you there: eyes shut, fingers on your ears, mumbling "nanananana, dont wanna see, dont wanna hear, nananananana"

"there is no god but allah,and mohammed is his prophet"...yet Jesus fits in there somewhere...as does Joseph Smith....but since this is now May 22 and there was no rapture,this whole thread should be closed...