5-21-2011 Rapture... Get the facts strait...

reply to post by Common Scarecrow
All of this division between the Bible and the Quran is futile. For one thing in Acient Times these two books were One Book. In the original Bible, dated 1311, There were many different Gods named in the Old Testement. As in Genesis, the God was called. El, an Egyptian God. [it was King James that changed them all to God.] Then there are the Nag Hammadi Text, that neither Book has. These books were written by Jesus, Mary, James, John, Thomas, Paul and Peter; in the time of Jesus. They were discovered in 1945. Here is

Jesus's own story of Genesis:

www.gnosis.org...

PS I am a Baptist. My Father had a Doctors Degree in Theology. I have Studied in College and on my own.

reply to post by coolottie


I've heard it all before and it's a lie. You've brought nothing new that hasn't been spewed by liberal biblical scholars before. You say you're a Baptist but it's really just a label. There's one bride of Christ and there shouldn't be denomination's. And why mention what your father is, he has nothing to do with the validity of scripture. You've been deceived and are wrong on Biblical history.
The Holy Bible & the Qu'ran were never one book. The Holy Bible is a library of books. In the time that Jesus walked the earth, the Old Testament had been translated into Greek already. Muhammad didn't arrive till 600 years later.

The devil is a deceiver, the father of all lies. He is a counterfeiter and so it's no wonder that there may be similarities in religious system's. None of it is supported by real historical fact. It's only speculation and the last time I looked, speculation is meaningless. Funny you link to a Gnosis website. Gnosis meaning knowledge. It's nothing more than mystery babylon crap reinvented as so called new age.

Originally posted by EvolEric
I've seen too many people on here mock Christians
over this stupid Rapture prophecy BS...

I wanna set some things strait...


Christians are not saying this... extreme fundamentalist lunatic's are...

I'm Christian... my family is Christian... we aren't saying the rapture is coming...

Jesus did not predict Sunday's Rapture...

The Bible is not saying 5-21-2011 is the Rapture


A lunatic by the name of Harold Camping did....


This is what is in the Bible says about the Rapture and the End of Time...

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Acts 1:7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has put in his own authority.

Mathew 24:36 "But the day and hour no one knows.not even the angels in heaven,but my Father only.

If Harold and his followers actually read the Bible...

They would know they were wrong...

Harold Camping is a false profit...

-End of Line

edit on 5/20/11 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)

Harold Camping == elite anti-religion shill

reply to post by soaringhawk


I never said I didn't like it. All I know is that there is One God and only One God, and his name isn't Jesus, it's Jehovah.

Originally posted by OldCorp
I've never in my life seen a Christian spew such hateful, venomous bile in my life; that seems to be the exclusive domain of Atheists such as yourself. This Camping character is a nutjob sure, but you are painting ALL Christians, and people of other faiths, with a VERY wide and inaccurate brush. I'll take your assertions apart one at a time:

Well, I said it before and I'll say it again, ask the gays if Christians spew hatred. Also ask the abortion doctors, you know, the dead ones. Also, check throughout history because religion has killed the majority of people, through wars and trying to prove their god is right over others, as that is what every holy book states...

1. There is a thing called "Separation of Church and State" in the US. A simple prayer is not allowed in schools anymore as they were when I grew up. Schools these days are taking special pains to expunge religion from not only the schools, but the textbooks as well. Your claim that ANY school board is "Creationist" in any way is patently absurd.

I'm not sure where you live but church and state are no longer seperating anywhere in western culture. People will not elect a president if they thought he was an atheist, why his religious beliefs matter is beyond me. Again, there is a huge battle right now because religious people want evolution taken out of text books, because it goes against their almighty...

1.1. I won't speak for other religions, but Christianity is the largest provider of food for the hungry, shelter for the homeless, and medical care for those who would otherwise die. Just by way of example, Christian charities around the world provided twice as much aid to the Muslim victims of the Boxing Day tsunami than did the world's governments; and TEN times as much as other Muslim countries around the world. Iran donated a whole $67,000 to tsunami relief; Christian charities provided BILLIONS.

I had to laugh here, because I have this arguement with Catholics all the time, the Vatican makes 100 billion or so a year and that alone could solve the hunger issue throughout the world, but yet hunger and famine still persists. Please don't use that argument as EVERYONE knows the church could and should do much, much more.

2. Anyone with a brain realizes that Jesus was a Jew; olive-skinned and dark-haired. Depictions of a "old white guy in the sky" went out of vogue in the Middle Ages.

Yeah Jesus was a Jew, and when the commandments were written they were about respecting your fellow Jew, not man, but Jew.

3. I think you're just insane. No Christian I know supports the rape of women or child molestations. If you're talking about the Catholic Church in re. child molestations, I can guarantee that while it has happened, it is not supported or encouraged - it is punished. When it has happened, and covered up, it is such a horrible betrayal of a priest's position of trust that it gets a lot more attention than the rapes and molestations committed by those influenced by Satan; but I guarantee you that the incidences are statistically insignificant when compared to similar crimes committed by those with no religious affiliation.

If you go to church, give money or support the church you are supporting rape and molestation. If pepsi was raping people and I was still buying pepsi I would be supporting them. The pope has had accusations of molestation brought about him before, and that is not counting how many time he has covered up what he has been informed of. None of the priests were punished, they were moved, to another congregation to molest different little boys. Satan does not exist, so that argument means nothing, and yes rapes and molestations occur outside the church, of course, but, they are not by men who claim they are holier than thou, people who were in a respected position and trusted with little kids.

If a school teacher were doing it, their punishments would be leaps and bounds above the priests.

4. First, I'd like to know where you got this "2 million" number. Did you count them all? Did you read the Bible and attribute every single death to The Almighty? And the Devil is a coward; he NEVER does his own dirty work. Al he does is lead people away from God, and when humans are separated from The Lord they lose whatever spirituality they have and revert to what they are - animals. If you were to HONESTLY count up those the Devil has led astray and subsequently damned - you'll arrive at a figure in the BILLIONS. God on the other hand is "not willing that ANY should perish."

4.1) God isn't against people having knowledge, He is against people having knowledge they aren't ready for. No responsible Father, which I believe God to be, is going to put His children in a position where they are in over their head. Adam and Eve were spiritual children who were not ready to "become like The Most High." It's the same thing as not giving a 3-year-old a loaded gun.

The Devil is a liar. He rebelled against The Almighty and LOST. He's also a petulant child who wants to hurt God in the only way he can, which is to lead His children into damnation; and he uses people like you to do his dirty work. How does it feel to be used like that? I don't think that you will like the reward that your "good guy" Satan will give you for all of your faithful service.

You need to get on your knees my friend, and reflect on why it is that you have such hatred towards people who have never done a thing to you.

I will bow to no one, ever. There is no god, he is in the same category as Santa Claus for me. It is a way for people to feel better about themselves. God gets all the good and none of the bad, people made up "Satan" for this. Another cop out.

An if you look up the percentage of wars fought over religion you would find a lot are exactly in that context. Deny it or not, religious people are a detriment to society, and on a forum where the motto is deny ignorance we a flowing with it in a religious thread.

Oh, just for clarification, I do no mean anyone that believes in a higher spiritual plain or whatever, I'm talking about god believers, the ones that go to church. God is a religious word, about a jealous person who hates if you don't bow down to him. I have read the holy books, and they are all the same BS, those books are what made me an atheist.

Religious people do not equal spiritual people....

Pred...

If any spelling mistakes it because I am on an iPad and it's hard as hell to break it into sections like this.

reply to post by soaringhawk

The Torah is the only thing written that has not been changed at all since it was first written.

Well, I can see you have never read the Nag Hammadi, or have studied the history of Christian Theology, doubt you ever studied anything the Nicene Council wrote, [ there are 14 of the biggest books]
Most Preachers tell their congregation not to read anything but the Bible and a sin to read anything else. To me this is a sin. What in the world does "Libral" or "New Age" have to do with what I said. Nothing
It is futile to discuss this with those that are afraid to at least read the information.
You sure give the Devil a lot of power.

Many versions of the bible existed before the King James and the advent of mass printing.

Nicene Creed is a list of beliefs that you need to acknowledge in order to call yourself a Christian.

What Emperor Constantine did when he commissioned the Official Bible was not so much change the original...there was no original. The people he chose for the task decided which scriptures went int the Bible and which were left out. It became a combination of Old Jewish Laws and creation myths. And some of the teaching of Jesus as well as letters written by certain disciples.

We are finding more and more of the original texts that were edited for the official Roman Empire version. But they are little studied and reported

There are a lot of good sources on this Link
answers.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by coolottie

The Torah is the only thing written that has not been changed at all since it was first written.

Excuse me Sir / Madam. Since Moses is the Author of the Torah, and since the Torah has never changed, as you say, pray tell me, how did he manage to write the following AFTER HIS DEATH:

"And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.
Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone.
The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over."
Deuteronomy 34:5-8


G'day to you.

reply to post by aero56


That's not what the Holy Bible says. You either accept it all or none of it. You can't take bits and pieces to suit your need so you can be comfortable. You are putting God in a box. One of your own making and that is idolatry. I gave you verses that show Jesus equaled Himself to God. You can take it or leave it. But don't claim that Jesus isn't God when Jesus said He is. You are being a liar.Don't you realize that?
That can't make you happy. It can't make you happy to live your life picking and choosing just because some verses don't fit easy with you. There's plenty I don't understand, that I don't know. But what I do know I can take safety in and I can lean it. The LORD will not contradict Himself, He will not deny Himself. He will not lead those that are His astray.

Originally posted by soaringhawk
reply to post by aero56

 

That's not what the Holy Bible says. You either accept it all or none of it. You can't take bits and pieces to suit your need so you can be comfortable.

That to me is where the ignorance lies in religious people. They are not even sure what the official rules are and make their own up on the fly. God made rules, if you do not follow them then you are not a student.

Ask people who their god hates, 9 times out of 10 it's the same people as them. You will usually get a grin out of them.

The one that always gets me is when they somehow avoid a crappy situation like an accident, "god was with them" and/or "god was there to help them" but, if they got into the accident or crappy situation, where was god then? They always give the good credit to god and when bad happens there's the damn devil.

And then they wonder why we think they believe in fairy tales.

Pred...

reply to post by coolottie


I have researched early church history. And like I said, you're speaking nonsense. I don't go to 'church'. I don't belong to a denomination. I and every other Christian is the church.

There were books left out simply because they contradicted scripture. There is no conspiracy, and the translators of the holy scriptures were all highly educated. There is more evidence for the historical reliability of the New Testament than any other ancient text. That is a fact. I know there were Bible's before the KJV. It has everything to do with mystery Babylon and the so called new age movement. The mystery schools. They are the one's that spread lies to attack the faith of those with weak faith or new in the faith. They are the one's that don't believe in God and are nothing but Luciferian dogs. There is no proof for anything you said. Read everything, listen to everyone but believe NOTHING unless YOU can PROVE IT THROUGH YOUR OWN RESEARCH!

Originally posted by predator0187
They always give the good credit to god and when bad happens there's the damn devil.

Who is "they"?

As a muslim, I do not blame the devil for accidents. I believe in this:

"When disaster strikes them, (they) say, "Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return." (2:156)

reply to post by predator0187


God hates sin, loves the sinner. I suggest you actually read the Holy Bible front to back because I've read your post and I really think most of you are troll's. You've done nothing but regurgitate the same garbage that people say over and over again as if you're incapable of thinking for yourself but I don't think that's the case. What ever the truth is, you know it, or do you? Maybe you're even sure what you believe. Plenty have been killed by people that were not Christian. The Roman Emperor Nero. He had Christians murdered and tortured in horrific ways.
Hitler ( his life shows he wasn't a Christian) Mao, Stalin and plenty others through out world history.

Human nature is universally the same and only the Holy Spirit can open our eyes and create in us a new nature with the ability to follow the truth. I've been a Christian since 2003 and that's only because of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by predator0187
They always give the good credit to god and when bad happens there's the damn devil.

Who is "they"?

As a muslim, I do not blame the devil for accidents. I believe in this:

"When disaster strikes them, (they) say, "Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return." (2:156)

Well, we live in a christian nation, so my apologies. Muslims just believe anyone that disagrees that the Muslim god is the savior should die. Don't deny that true in all religions.

All gods are jealous SOB's.

Whats your poison? Koran, Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita? I prefer the later for decent scripture.

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
Muslims just believe anyone that disagrees that the Muslim god is the savior should die.

Isn't this ATS, "denying ignorance" and the like?
Produce your proof for your claim above.

Thank you.

reply to post by EvolEric


Thank you.

reply to post by soaringhawk


Call me a troll and I'm out. I have read most of the holy books including the plagiarized buy-bull, cover to cover, that and that alone is why I'm an atheist.

Use any ad hominen attack, I will not attack back. Ignorant is not an insult, it is a lack of knowledge which can be easily gained.

I have also done many university level theology classes including the reformation, when the church was actually charging to make people spend less time in purgatory. Or when Constantine took over the church and absolved most of the pagan symbology in it, something that Christ was against, but yeah, I don't know anything.

Pred...

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Isn't this ATS, "denying ignorance" and the like?
Produce your proof for your claim above.

Thank you.

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)

Have a great thread I'm done reciting your books.... beating a dead horse...

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Isn't this ATS, "denying ignorance" and the like?
Produce your proof for your claim above.

Thank you.

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

Pred...

All verses you posted, except the one above I left - have NOTHING to do with your claim that we should kill, or rather those who do not believe in "our God" shall die.

And regarding the verse above:
The one you quoted is NOT verse 190, but rather 191.
You see, like many bigots here (not saying you are one), you either "forgot", or "left out" the verse BEFORE this one, because, ya know, it suits your "claim".
Here is the REAL verse 190:

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

Why do you people do this? Seriously?

You can and WILL never find ONE verse in the entire Qur'an which commans us (muslims) to just go out there and kill those who do not believe in God.

In fact, throughout the entire Qur'an, you will find verses like this:

"And whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] himself; and whoever strays - say, "I am only [one] of the warners." (27:92)

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:192

If they give in we will accept them.

I never once said everything about your books is crap, I'm just smart enough to know it's a fictional story.

The Bhagavad Gita is a brilliant book, one of my favorites.

I actually like Islam better than Christianity, minus the oppression of women, and that is both culture and religion.

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:192

If they give in we will accept them.

And see - you did it again!

Did you just like that, FORGET the verse 190? You know, the one that says fight those WHO FIGHT YOU?
You know, as in, they ATTACK US so we must DEFEND ourself?
Ringing any bell?

What are we to do if they attack us? Just sit and wait to be slaughtered?`Of course we must fight them! and THEN comes the verse above - if they STOP ATTACKING US, then God will forgive them.