It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by ontarff
I do not see the credentials of the unbiased experts from FactCheck that published this article. This article does not provide the empirical data for the scientific analysis in a report published in any journal that would be provided for scrutiny to any scientific community.
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by ontarff
I do not see the credentials of the unbiased experts from FactCheck that published this article. This article does not provide the empirical data for the scientific analysis in a report published in any journal that would be provided for scrutiny to any scientific community.
I see. So when you said "They could be examined by a committee of well known document experts not paid by any special interest groups." you didnt really mean that, since what I presented is EXACTLY that.
You are just moving the goal posts.
Originally posted by ontarff
Please see my edited re-post. Henig and Miller did not provide empirical evidence of the original 1961 document.
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by ontarff
Please see my edited re-post. Henig and Miller did not provide empirical evidence of the original 1961 document.
Okay. Goal-post-mover.
So, can you describe what exactly this 'empirical evidence' would be and who specifically you would trust to verify it?
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by ontarff
You asked for evidence confirmed by a third party. I showed it. You then changed the parameters. That is called moving the goal posts. Now you are continuing to do so.
So, I will dismiss your dismissal of my question and ask yet again :So, can you describe what exactly this 'empirical evidence' would be and who specifically you would trust to verify it?
It seems a simple question to answer. But, of course, the last time you defined parameters, and evidence was supplied which fit those parameters, you merely changed the parameters.
So, again, please define the parameters and stick to them.
edit on 22-5-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Lighterside
reply to post by TrueAmerican
So the 'Debt Collector' err.. 'Al' doesn't wish to have his identity or location disclosed? And the only place his story is being told is on a program with an obvious anti Obama narrative?
Ya, shaping up to be the conspiracy of all conspiracies all right....
IMO there's no reason to take this program, or it's guest seriously.
Originally posted by ontarff
Again, I will repeat, a committee of experts should be formed, that are unbiased, that are not paid for their analysis by any special interest group, to examine and analyze the original 1961 proof of live birth. The scientific analysis and procedures used to determine authenticity of the original birth certificate would be published for scrutiny by the scientific community and those educated to understand the scientific method used.
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by ontarff
Again, I will repeat, a committee of experts should be formed, that are unbiased, that are not paid for their analysis by any special interest group, to examine and analyze the original 1961 proof of live birth. The scientific analysis and procedures used to determine authenticity of the original birth certificate would be published for scrutiny by the scientific community and those educated to understand the scientific method used.
Noted.
Can you define 'unbiased'?
you would accept their findings if they dont align with your own pre-determined conclusions?edit on 22-5-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)
unbiased or unbiassed (ʌnˈbaɪəst) — adj 1. having no bias or prejudice; fair or impartial 2. statistics a. (of a sample) not affected by any extraneous factors, conflated variables, or selectivity which influence its distribution; random b. (of an estimator) having an expected value equal to the parameter being estimated; having zero bias c. Also called: discriminatory (of a significance test). Having a power greater than the predetermined significance level
em·pir·i·cal (m-pîr-kl) adj. 1. a. Relying on or derived from observation or experiment: empirical results that supported the hypothesis. b. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment: empirical laws. 2. Guided by practical experience and not theory, especially in medicine.
Originally posted by DYepes
Well thats all fine and dandy guys, but this thread was started in reference to the NEW bull# of social security numbers, not the already six feet under issue of the birth certificate.
I just want to prepare myself for the next one, cuz this social security numbers issue im certain wont last the end of the month.
Im guessing the next one may be... ohh yea he will probably be accused of having multiple passports with different names or something along those lines. Ok everyone get ready to hear the passport fabrication soon, its the next step in this hilarious comedy.
Originally posted by DYepes
He does exist on paper. You just cannot access his private paper files due to privacy laws. I cannot access your private documentation either because of privacy laws. Can you prove to me you exist as who you say you are? Cuz you got me really worried now that you may be an enemy agent. No seriously...
Originally posted by DYepes
He does exist on paper. You just cannot access his private paper files due to privacy laws. I cannot access your private documentation either because of privacy laws. I dont know who you are and where you have been for the last fifty years? Can you prove to me you exist as who you say you are? Cuz you got me really worried now that you may be an enemy agent. No seriously...edit on 5/22/2011 by DYepes because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ontarff
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by ontarff
Please see my edited re-post. Henig and Miller did not provide empirical evidence of the original 1961 document.
Okay. Goal-post-mover.
So, can you describe what exactly this 'empirical evidence' would be and who specifically you would trust to verify it?
I am going to dismiss your name calling and only state that the information provided in the FactCheck article was not sufficient to support any scientific argument for authenticity of the original 1961 birth certificate.
Originally posted by wcitizen
Originally posted by ontarff
Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Originally posted by ontarff
Please see my edited re-post. Henig and Miller did not provide empirical evidence of the original 1961 document.
Okay. Goal-post-mover.
So, can you describe what exactly this 'empirical evidence' would be and who specifically you would trust to verify it?
I am going to dismiss your name calling and only state that the information provided in the FactCheck article was not sufficient to support any scientific argument for authenticity of the original 1961 birth certificate.
Which means you're going to avoid the question, lol.
Originally posted by ontarff
Yes there are privacy laws to protect most of us on a very limited basis, but there are transparency requirements for all elected officials. Transparency is required to avoid these kinds of problems. If you think you are promised privacy from anyone like the FBI, CIA or even the IRS, you are mistaken. Even debt collectors and private investigators can attain any information about you. The Patriot Act assures this as well.edit on 5/22/2011 by ontarff because: (no reason given)edit on 5/22/2011 by ontarff because: correct term.
you seem to believe that law does not exist in America? That there are not hundreds of thousands, if not millions of INDIVIDUALS involved and dedicated to their careers in law enforcement, forensics, intelligence gathering and national security, many of which themselves have their own negative opinions of Obama. That not a single one of them, surely thousands with the security clearance to gather any information they may need, would go right ahead and present the FACTUAL evidence required to present formal charges and prove these accusations?
Many of them would surely die in the line of duty (and many have, God bless their souls) fearless of their enemies because they believe in their duty to America. Why would they feel any less when presented with these supposed criminal actions?
Im sure the line that will be presented in response to this will be something along the lines of:
"Its a massive conspiracy by TPTB/Obama/Antichrist with orders that have been passed down to all agencies" or maybe
"Because Americans have become conditioned to not care" or
"Everyone's loyalty to the Commander in Chief supercedes the possibility of destabalizing the nation by prosecuting the POTUS"
When the simple answer really is just "none of it is true" .
As a former police officer, with experience using computer networks (such as NCIC, Accurint, Lexus Nexus, NYSPIN, etc...) to search for information, I am very concerned about this person's safety (if his story is as legit as it appears to be). To use softwares like that, and do the searches that he's done, he would have to be registered to the systems and log into them. Every search is saved, searchable, and points directly back to the user that performed it. You better believe that "they" are figuring out who this guy is right now. The ABSOLUTE WORST thing this person can do is remain anonymous. The more attention he can garner for himself, the less likely he will have a mysterious, Clintonian-style accident.