Survey Results: Online Privacy, Internet Advertising and The Independent Web

You, the users of the "Independent Web," have spoken, and the results of the survey are in with a total of 34,727 responses -- our most popular survey ever! As you'll see below, there are some interesting surprises. For me, the biggest surprise was the number of people indicating they have some awareness of the core issue. And an even bigger surprise are the responses to the last two questions -- well beyond what I expected.

Our survey system "detected" that only 4,917 ATS members responded to the survey, leaving the majority of other respondents (29,810) as non-member guests/visitors.

This data will be printed and presented to each elected representative available (at our expense) during our visit to Washington, DC. At last estimate, some 107 representatives will be meeting with the owners of "long-tail" websites, concerned about these issue.

As someone that runs such sites, myself, I am very aware of the issues, and can testify that the majority of income from these means generally comes from Google Adsense and other like-advertising situations.

We, as the smaller guys, have little means to be able to compete against big websites, which, in the end, are where the majority of advertisers go to place their ads.

It can be an ugly situation :|

Since you are in the neighborhood, would you mind tossing a hardcopy of the "other poll" results on the front porch of that old house on Pennsivania Ave?
Thank you!

reply to post by Jomina


Well... You know My solution... Get rid of the need for money. Release the plenum energy extraction methods. (For any who don't know how that would work, please read : The End of Entropy - the foundation - read first www.abovetopsecret.com... , and The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform - the structure www.abovetopsecret.com... )

As for the poll, it holds little in the way of surprises for Me... I hope the legislation can be stopped.

reply to post by Amaterasu


6 and 10 did not show up on my computer can someone tell me what they are thanks

I did not know about this survey until now... so ATS is actively promoting the ability of websites to track our browsing habits, huh? Good to know where you guys stand on this.

Please excuse my ignorance, as i'm not well informed on the subject...

Why would this damage "effective advertisement". Sounds to me like a cop-out for marketing departments because they can't come up with their own ideas and feel the need to steal them from the general public. I mean you can't even type up anything on an office document anymore that is private to just yourself. All data is ran through a schema repository and transferred to databases without your permission. If you didn't take the time to read through the EULA then, too bad...

Who gave anyone the right to track people's habits online anyways? And what happens when the data is accidentally stolen? Well, then... too bad.

This is not a bash on the websites that run small analytical tools, as they aren't really a problem. Its the big fish that are tracking your purchases, scanning your e-mail, and pulling data from your pc without your awareness.

Like that free e-mail, but didn't know it was used to pick your brain? Well, too bad...
Like watching tv, surfing the internet, and talking on the phone, but didn't know that every channel, conversation, and url was tied to you, your location, and given out to who knows? Sorry, buried in the Terms of Service... Too Bad

But its okay, you agreed to it. Just click "accept", or sign right here... we'll take care of you...

Originally posted by pikappa
so ATS is actively promoting the ability of websites to track our browsing habits, huh?

No. That's not what this is about. More details are in the survey announcement thread.

Originally posted by WdBASH
Why would this damage "effective advertisement".

Without the ability to use "cookies," or some other means of remembering users, it's nearly impossible for firms delivering third-party ads to know who received which ad and how often.

steal them from the general public.

Nothing of the sort is happening.

Who gave anyone the right to track people's habits online anyways?

The retained data is anonymous, and not specific to "people."

Its the big fish that are tracking your purchases, scanning your e-mail, and pulling data from your pc without your awareness.

All of which are much more serious privacy concerns, unrelated to online advertising.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


If you say so, okay... sure sounds like it to me though (and yes, I've read the whole thread).

Myself and Mark Allin (Springer) are headed to Washington, DC, along with several dozen other operators of independent websites, to lobby elected representatives on behalf of the independent web. We will be armed with your answers to this survey, in effect showing those elected officials the actual opinions of Internet users who care about their favorite websites.

Another question I have, as again, i'm not very well informed on this subject....

When they say that "the information is not used to identify you" or similar hogwash...
Can they spout that garbage because they use some vaugue runaround in accordance with applicable law?

For instance, yes from a legal standpoint it may not personally identify you. It identified your PC, which was purchased at a certain store, that is connected with a bank account. That bank account is tied with a mailing address, etc.. Or that PC is hitting a specific DNS server which is under authority of a specific service provider. Which can be located to a certain address by the provider. All things purchased, connected, or consumed are tied to not a person but.... dahhh daahhh dahhhhhhh... A PROFILE.

But its okay, i feel much safer in this disgusting, nanny state, corporate pimp, government whore, perverted world because... they didn't identify me as A PERSON

Originally posted by pikappa
sure sounds like it to me though

At no time did we ever mention anything remotely related to "websites" tracking user's "browsing habits." Which, is impossible as once you leave a site, there is no way to know what you do next.

Originally posted by WdBASH
For instance, yes from a legal standpoint it may not personally identify you. It identified your PC, which was purchased at a certain store, that is connected with a bank account.

Your example isn't possible, as the cookie (a text-file on your computer) used for online advertising is a non-identifying number such as something like: XJ78WS90WGM4U2-HUSKU-38902-H8SS72AQOP, or similar. The technology uses that alphanumeric identifier to reference a database record that attempts to retain the ads you've seen/clicked on the sites you've visited that use the services of that specific third-party ad provider. Unless you volunteer additional information at some point, there's no way to know any specific personal details about you or your computer.

If that process concerns you, there's already an option on every browser to delete cookies.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Deleting my cookies off of my PC won't affect information stored on a server. Who says that server doesn't connect with a database that pulled my MAC Address? Who says my MAC address isn't tied to some vague profile thats tied to everything else about me. Sure, I may not provide the details then and there, but over time, it will happen.

Believe me SO,
This is neither an attack at you or this wonderful website, but I think some companies and the government are overstepping some boundries that shouldn't have to be defined by law. They should have the morals not to do it. Advertising may not work like i've described, but is there a possibility its one part of a very large puzzle? I don't know if advertising as you've described it is bad, but all i can see is a double edged sword here.

Originally posted by WdBASH
Who says that server doesn't connect with a database that pulled my MAC Address?

The privacy policies of the involved parties.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks, I'm relieved. Our browsing habits can't be tracked, our privacy is safe. Much ado about nothing, as they say. Now, if only someone explained to Mozilla and Google that they're going to kill the independent web...

www.geekosystem.com...

Fact of the matter, in the end, is that if you want to spend large amounts of time carefully setting up and maintaining a truly anonymous web presence you can. You can also choose to limit your internet access to public terminals (libraries, cafes, etc).

If you want to surf the web from home AND have a life outside of the computer, then tracking cookies and advertising profiles are the reality. Sorry, I don't like it any more than anyone else. I think it sucks, and I do think it does (or at least has the potential) to tie an identity to the surfing habits.

But that being said, I can stop them in their tracks right now. I can simply choose to not access the internet.

I'm picking up what Skeptic Overlord is throwin' down though: This legislation is a well-crafted backdoor attack on independent sites. Benefits TPTB 'cause they quell dissenting opinion, benefits Big Ebusiness, 'cause we will lose many of our "out of the box" news sources and product suppliers.
Small sites will have to switch to a paid membership model very quickly, to fund a marketing department or to simply pay the monthly bills. I'd love to get a ballpark figure on what ATS puts out each month to handle upkeep and the traffic here...I bet it's more than most of us make a year!

So I for one will continue (for now) to feed this damned beast. The benefit of the internet still outweighs the price.

I think you should just create a paid membership program along with free memberships. That way you can keep the site how it is with the advertising for all free member and guests. But if people who are regular members of this site would like to pay a small monthly or yearly fee they could have an advertisement free account that wouldn't track cookies and would be more anonymous.

Originally posted by blamethegreys
If you want to surf the web from home AND have a life outside of the computer, then tracking cookies and advertising profiles are the reality.

It's not just the Internet... simply having a listed land-line home phone opens one up to a long and surprising list of privacy intrusions and data collection.

And the sad fact, knowing what I know of the core technology and retargeting techniques (a lot), our very-simple proposed solution that would force browsers to expire any third-party cookie at 48 hours is very-workable and viable solution that would make everyone happy -- except, of course, the corporate-money-backed politicians with ulterior motives.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Tell me about it. I don't even have to walk out the front door anymore to feel like somebody's (remove explicitve)
The solution you speak of does sound like it would please a lot of people. I can see your concern with this legislation, and that you would like to keep this site free and open. However; in the long run, you my not have any option but to charge a membership fee. What a pickle.