What would be a good gun for my mother?

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posted on May, 24 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by tomten
 


Total number of crimes, yes. We also have nearly five times the population.

Per Capita we are much safer than most of Europe.

Acording to the Telegraph,


The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa...


It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.


Telegraph Article


Well.. it seem to be different numbers floating around.
Of the 50 countries listed here:
Crimes per capita, world wide.
USA is on 8'th place.




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 





He's right movie boy.... Police and Military are trained to clear malfunctions(jams)under stress,.


So are many civilians. I was taught how in my NRA Defense Outside of The Home course. Did I learn it with live fire zooming over head? No, but I did learn to clear suprise jams on a live firing line with instrucors in my ear. Not exactly the same, but the skill is there. Being able to do it under stress mainly comes down to muscle memory. That is a matter of practice.




Revolvers have less to go wrong.


They do, but I have seen it happen. I have seen revolvers freeze up for several reasons. Anything mechanical can fail.




You are responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel; if you can't deal with a threat with 6 well placed shots. you are probably screwed even with a big bad auto pistol.


Jared Reston Incident

Jared Reston was shot point blank by a .45acp. It hit him in the chin and careened out through his neck. He was also shot in the right arm, his buttock, and thigh. He survived. He actually won the gunfight. However, it took him 14 shots.

He was ambushed by the first shot. It hit him in the chin and he fell down. The perp then shot him several more times striking him in the arm and leg. Reston ended up shooting up hill at his attacker from a distance. He was at a disadvantage because of his injuries and terrain.

The attacker started to flee, but continued firing over his shoulder. Then he came back and took up a position to offer a kill shot. By the time the perp returned he had been shot once in the abdomen as he turned to run and twice in the back. (Remember he was still shooting while he ran away.) One shot broke the perps arm, but he kept fighting.

What stopped the perp? He was hit some where in the head and fell down on to reston. However, he was still struggling. Reston had to shoot him two more times in the head to end the fight.

The fight will be what it wants to be. Do not limit yourself or any one else. Reston was hit multiple times by a .45acp and wasn't screwed. The perp took five shots of 180gr .40S&W and continued to fight. It was shot 6 and 7 that disconeccted the central nervous system and ended the fight.




I have both; I was trained to carry the1911, That puts me in a different category than somebodies Mom.


The average 1911 carries 7+1. That is a whopping total of 8 rounds. A Walther PK 380 holds 9 rounds. It is a lock breach design making it easier to shoot than most autos on the market. It has the advantage of higher capacity and being much easier for most women of a more mature age to shoot. If the lady can rack it, it will do the job. So really it doesn't put you in a very different category at all. You are trained to carry a low capacity auto. So can nearly anybody's mom now. Plus there are training classes available nation wide through the NRA.

I know there are recoil differences and the .45acp is a better defensive round. However, as we see there is no promise that even seven rounds of .45acp will do the trick. It comes down to shot placement. It is better to strike dead center with a .380 than to miss with a .357 magnum or a .45acp.



So what. If I get the threat stopped in the first 3 rounds or few seconds. Statitically most gunfights last a few seconds and occur at point blank range.


Statistically speaking the average American will never need a gun for defense. Statistically speaking a lot of things are unlikely. However, when carrying a gun it isn't about the odds, it is about the stakes.

ETA:
I want to suggest that you read Captain Fairbairn's book "Shooting to Live." In 1942 Fairbairn had been serving in th Shainghai police for many years. He had been involved in over 200 incidents of violence as a cop. He was also responsible for training hundreds of cops how to survive in what was the world's most dangerous city. His guys came out on top more often than not. In twelve years 42 of his police were killed. 260 criminals were killed. Styles have advanced since then and the numbers have grown to favor the good guys even more.

All of that was to establish his credentials for the masses. Here comes the point.

In 1942 Fairbairn wrote that the semi-automatics uniformed officers used were every bit as accurate and reliable as the revolvers that his undercover guys used. I like the way he said it. "If their weapons had been in any way unsatisfactory, twenty years should have sufficed to reveal the defects."

You are talking about a force of over six thousand men that had been in over 660 shoot outs in twelve years. That is pretty much one shoot out every week for more than a decade. In not one of those instances did the officer's semi-auto lead to his injury or death. In fact he said there had not been one incident to shed the "slightest doubt" on the semi-auto as a reliable service weapon.

That was nearly 70 years ago.
edit on 24-5-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by tomten
 


Your numbers are from 1998 - 2000. America has had a decade of decreasing crime rates since then.

My numbers are from an article printed in 2009. The numbers come from the data collected through 2007 and released in late 2008. The numbers are nearly a decade more current and better reflect current conditions.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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The best firearm for your mother is one she feels comfortable with and can shoot well.

Take her to a range where you can rent different firearms.

I suggest a wheel gun for ease of use under stress...



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by AP-Chris
reply to post by 46ACE
 





He's right movie boy.... Police and Military are trained to clear malfunctions(jams)under stress,. Revolvers have less to go wrong. You are responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel; if you can't deal with a threat with 6 well placed shots. you are probably screwed even with a big bad auto pistol. I have both; I was trained to carry the1911, That puts me in a different category than somebodies Mom.


Sorry, but you are lagging behind in the last century. You are confining yourself to a firearm that usuually carries less rounds and is slower to reload because you think semi-autos are less reliable than revolvers. The Colt 1911 you mention is renowned for it's reliablilty



Wait a minute ;I love my 1911(carried one concealed(under a suit jacket) in the military) though I did have to beat the slide off mypersonal one with 2x4 once when the ejector bent. The point I and the other poster were making was:

MOM will not be trained nor experienced enough to realize:"Hey the gun didn't fully cycle,there's a spent case sticking out of the ejection port ("a stove pipe" failure to eject).

I know and practice The recovery procedure. "tap/rackandfire: "Tap": ensure the magazine is firmly seated in the gun. "Rack" the slide,chambering a fresh round and clearing the jam. and get back into the fight.
A revolver is not as antiquated as you think, it is has none of those possibilities or complexities. inthecaseof a misfire. The Auto: cycle the slide,clearing the bad and rechambering a fresh round.Revolver: you pull the trigger again.

For a trained shooter who practices regularly;there's no argument here: The auto pistol is a formula1 race car.
"Mom" would be better off with k frame 4" .38

Additionally :

55% of gunfights take place 0-5 feet.
• 20% of gunfights take place in 5-10 feet.
• 20% of gunfights take place in 10-21 feet.
• 95% of gunfights take place in 0-21 feet. (Source- FBI)
• The average man can cover 21 feet of ground in 1.5 seconds.
• The average man cannot draw a gun from concealment in under 2 seconds.
• Seek and use cover. Be aware of false cover. (ie bushes - that's concealment, not cover)
• The average gunfight is over in 3-5 seconds.
• 3 to 4 shots are usually fired.

• Most gunfights take place in low light conditions.
• On average, one shot in four strikes someone.


forum.saiga-12.com.../topic/19967-gunfight-statistics/


Originally posted by AP-Chris
eto as are a host of other autos by quality manufacturers. I carried an M9, it went bang every time as does my Glock. The trigger pull on a Glock isn't great, but it's better than most revolvers being fired double action.


You are not the first person to say "if you can't deal with a threat with 6 well placed shots, you are probably screwed."

That's a callous disregard for someone's life. What if they are in a bad situation against multiple threats? Don't you want to at least give them a chance with a few more rounds instead of just writing them off as screwed?

Since you called me a "movie boy", I'll just say I have quite a bit more experience than many, but less than a few people here.

It is very possible, and most times likely, that you will go through more than 6 rounds in a firefight indoors unless you catch the attacker unaware. Since he is breaking in to your house, he senses are already on full alert while you may be coming out of a deep sleep. In fact, if you don't catch him in the first round or two, you can expect alot of gunfire to exchange real quick if he's armed. And I can tell you most of the gunfire exchanged won't be "well placed shots," it'll be the best you can shoot as you are waking up and shooting from whatever cover you're ducking behind... and you'll be shooting at anything you can see exposed or whatever you hope your bullets will go through to get him. Of course, maybe you'll get lucky and he will silhouette himself in a hallway and you can double tap him center mass with 4 rounds to spare...

The best advice that I can tell the OP is to reinforce the entry doors. Doors on most American suburb houses are easy to kick in. Home Depot sells a one piece door frame reinforcement kit: Home Depot door kit

If not that, at least replace the crappy little woodscrews with 3" ones that go into the frame instead of just the trim. Replace the screws for the hinges with longer ones also. Security film on first floor windows and stops that restrict window opening to 8" would be good also.

If someone kicks your door in when you are asleep, you only have a few seconds to wake up and get your weapon before they are upon you. That's what you really need to prevent or delay for as long as possible.

Alarms? Sure, but secure the doors and windows first. It's cheaper and provides better immediate physical protection.
edit on 24-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Definitely a revolver, due to the simplicity of the design, and function. I would recommend the Taurus model 617. It's a 7-shot .357 with a 2" barrel. My gun shop sells them for around $350. I wouldn't recommend keeping it loaded with .357 rounds for mom, but with a .38 special, it's very tame. Has a good grip, and dependable. For being so small, it still has a bit of weight to it, so even with .357 loads, the recoil is manageable.

If you wanna spend a few more bucks, the Taurus Model 608 holds 8 rounds, is a bit larger, with a 4" ported barrel. They are VERY manageable with .38 special loads, due to the size and weight, and largely to the ported barrel. They also hold the same capacity as a 1911, and if you wanna have fun at the range, you can still shoot full house .357 loads!!

Even more important than which gun to choose is to make sure you get her some training, and she keeps in practice. Shooting on instinct and proper shot placement is more important than any other factor.

Oh, yeah, and get her a big dog.
edit on 8-6-2011 by deesul69 because: (no reason given)





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