Israel approves 1,500 settler homes in east Jerusalem following Obama's speech

Obama did another speech today about Israel... and guess what Israel has done again.

Israel approves new West Bank settler homes: NGO

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak has approved the construction of 294 new homes in Beitar Ilit settlement on the occupied West Bank, anti-settlement NGO Peace Now reported on Sunday.

Everytime Obama speaks about Israel going back to 1967 borders, Israel approves new settlements. They really don't care.

Obama should cut their foreign aid ASAP.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Israels economy is booming.

I really dont think they need americas foreign aid. And Maybe americans would be better off having their government invest in their own industries, as opposed to another countries...

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by mayabong

 

aye..

you really are stubborn.

Well, people who are telling hte truth tend to not want to back down from someone who's deliberatly spreading misinformation.

Egypt had GONEB into Israel. They had entered Israel,

Do what? No. No, they hadn't. This is, in every sense of the word, a complete lie.

aswell as amassing their army at the Israeli Border....

Thats not a military provocation to you?

Here's a history lesson for other readers; I've already pointed this stuff out to dontreally, so I don't expect he'll pay attention this second time, either.

As most people know, Israel and Egypt weren't buddies at the time. Egypt had joined in the attack on Israel in 1948, and Israel had attacked and invaded Egypt in 1956. There were few, if any lines of communication, and these had dwindled even fewer by the late 60's, due to Israel and Egypt taking different sides in the cold war. Egypt got buddy-buddy with the Soviets; it was Soviet engineering that built the Aswan Dam, for instance, and it was soviet grain and money keeping Egypt going strong. So in 1967, when the Soviets brought intelligence to Nasser that said the Israelis were planning an attack on Egypt, Nasser did what any lucid statesman would do; he started putting his troops on the border and closed Egypt's territorial waters to Israeli shipping and put his allies on alert.

This is not provocation. This is a defensive measure against a known aggressive enemy based on seemingly solid intelligence from a strong ally.

Of course, this response would have alarmed the Israelis; here's a military sitting at the border, and calls are going out from Egypt to all corners of the middle east. There's two possibilities.

1) Either the Arabs are planning something...
or
2) Someone got information of an actual attack being planned by Israel, and alerted Egypt.

Either way the decision was made to launch an attack on Egypt.

Now think for a moment. if you're planning to attack another nation, do you a) park your military and air force inside your border, in plain sight of the person you're going to attack, or b) attack suddenly, without giving them time to prepare, much less evaluate your forces?

There were few lines of communication; and had they been used, I doubt either side would have taken the word of the other. Still, both were members of the UN, and it would have been simple enough to go "Uh, hey, we have a situation here, any help?"

My guess - and this is a guess - is that the Soviet intelligence was accurate, and Israel was forced to step up its timetable. Nasser, counting on conventional methods of displays of might on the front and diplomatic efforts in the back to handle such situations, got caught with his pants down. Israel's attack on Egypt of course activated Egypt's allies, particularly Syria, and the war was on. I make this guess for once simple reason; I can't for the life of me figure out what the USSR would have gained by lying to Egypt. Even if it were simply mistaken intelligence, I can't imagine that the Soviets would have left Egypt to hang after their goof. I could of course be wrong on this. I don't think I'll ever know one way or another.

I wonder how America would respond if China were entering american waters or entering America proper... What if china was buildign their army at the American Border?

We'd ask them what the hell they think they're doing. It'd be called a "diplomatic incident" and would probably be taken to the UN. The United States would not go "OMFG CHINESE PEOPLE SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT!"

Would the world criticize America for responding pre-emptively when all signs indicate that China is planning a military attack?

Well, yes, they would. Because "the rules" don't allow for "pre-emptive" attacks. If you have to wonder why, might I direct your attention to Iraq?

Have you ever heard of a pre-emptive attack? Do you understand the utility in such attacks? Do you think it would be right to do just do away with the idea alltogether?

Given that pre-emptive attacks are almost universally launched by the aggressive force that fabricates claims of threat from the nation they're attacking (again, see Iraq) and thus require immense proof of aggressive intent from the force you're attacking to be considered valid, under the internationally (including by Israel) accepted rules of warfare?

Stick to Buddhism/spirituality mayabong. You dont understand a thing about politics.

Ah, the blind calling others nearsighted.

Or how bout this:

Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23.

And? Any nation can declare anything to be cassus belli. This ability does not actually mean that wars launched on the basis of said cassus belli are actually valid and legal. That is, just because Israel ways "We will consider X to be justification for war" does not actually mean that they have any legal right or authority to declare war over X.

That is, closing the straits to Israeli shipping is not an act of military aggression, and is thus not valid cause for war under the international laws of warfare. Now, if Egypt had parked its navy in Israeli territorial waters to keep ships from leaving Elat, that would qualify. Egypt deciding to close its territorial waters to shipping from a nation - any nation - is Egypt's right as a sovereign nation.

It is nothing short of AMAZING that a thread which regards or atleast is trying to contend that Israel building on their own land in the west bank

Is that sort of like New York building on its own land in Quebec? Do you even understand the words you're stringing together?

is a "big middle finger to america",

America says "If you want this money, you stop doing this." Israel agrees, takes the money, then does it anyway. Yeah, that's a middle finger. Also, by your standards, an excuse to bomb the hell out of Israel.

yet Egypts closing a strait used by Israeli tankers, thus of importance to the Israeli economy/infrastructure, to you cannot be legitimately regarded an act of war...

Finally, you say something truthful, even though you were trying to be sarcastic, yes. Egypt managing shipping in Egyptian territorial waters is Egypt's sovereign right, and Israel can kiss off. Saying that closing the straits of Tiran was justification to attack Egypt is no different than saying cancelling scrap iron and oil sales to japan was just cause for the attack on Pearl harbor.

Except the United States and Japan actually had a legally-binding trade agreement in that case, so hey, I guess Israel's actions are at least somewhat less valid than Imperial Japan's.

IN ALL other times and places, this would be regarded as a provocation of war. Economic war. Israel had even warned them.... So they attacked, because THEY were attacked. They were instigated with, and not vice-verca.

No, in fact, that's not the case at all. First, as I've clarified, Israel was not attacked. if they were, then what the hell are you talking about "pre-emptive strikes" for? Second, Israel's "warning" bears no weight at all, under international law. Third, a nation moving its military around within its own borders is not actually instigation and is not cause for war.

Serioiusly man..Read up on this... Are you Blind? Can you read? They had made military pacts, even Iraq sent troops into Jordan...and so when Israel responded to this gross military/economic provocation, now THEY are the ones deemed the instigators!!?

Specifically they made a defensive military pact, agreeing that if one was attacked, the others would mobilize. It's standard operating procedure that, when you're formed of an impending attack, you go to your allies and ask them to help you out.

And again, this was by no means a "provocation" - neither military nor economic. it was certainly not "gross." So, yes, when Israel makes the decision to launch a surprise attack (which may not actually have been s big surprise) then they are the ones instigating. Try to keep up

And you consider yourself a man of truth, of fairness, of justice??

Youre full of # if you think that.

Mayabong should take this line as a deep compliment.

Here is a map of Israel settlement.

reply to post by dontreally

Well...that would have been the case if the Arav Goyim didnt decide to attack Israel unprovoked...

Why do you continue to lie??
You get called out on it every time and it just makes you look bad..

If you can't defend Israel with the truth then are they really worth defending???

reply to post by schuyler


How about I set up a tent on YOUR land and move in? After all it is ONLY a small tent. Do you see how rediculous you argument is? The other thing to consider is settlements are a clear violation of international law.

Dear God in heaven, Israel is building houses for Israelis in Israel? What's next? America building houses in America for Americans? Italy building homes in...in...ITALY?!? Someone call the U.N.! We have to stop this NOW!


/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American
Dear God in heaven, Israel is building houses for Israelis in Israel? What's next? America building houses in America for Americans? Italy building homes in...in...ITALY?!? Someone call the U.N.! We have to stop this NOW!


/TOA

So you know where the borders are??

Care to show us this map??

Originally posted by The Old American
Dear God in heaven, Israel is building houses for Israelis in Israel? What's next? America building houses in America for Americans? Italy building homes in...in...ITALY?!? Someone call the U.N.! We have to stop this NOW!


/TOA

No Israel is building houses in Palestine. So it would be more like dear dog in heaven, Mexico is building houses in America, Italy is building homes in Austria. Not to mention the settlements are a flagrant violation of international law and even the most prominent pro-Zionists such as Alan Dershowitz don't support them (not becuase they are against them necassarily but becuase they can't find a justification to support them).

reply to post by dontreally

Hi dontreally -

Check out a book called The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006) by the great Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, who found that he had the guts actually (and finally) 'to tell it like it really was' (and was viciously maligned for his valiant efforts at getting to the historical truth of the founding of the modern state of Yisro'el (mainly by using what is known as 'hard documentary evidence', (as opposed to 'zionist propaganda') and by actually (shock and awe !!!) interviewing actual living eye witnesses) - the ccriticism levied against him was mainly by the right wing extremist-zionist 'orthodox' (!) camp in eretz Yisro'el).

The ISBN # is 13:978-1-85168-467-0 (and also: ISBN # 10:1-85168-467-0) and I think you can get it on Amazon.com fairly easily : this book will open your mind to other realities, and make your discussion of this topic 'more adult' to say the least...

Many serious modern academic historians who have devoted their lives to studying this period in the middle east (esp between c. 1930 to 1967 and beyond) have been very grateful for someone of high academic standing like Ilan Pappe (and he is not alone, thankfully) finally 'to come out of the closet' within eretz Yisro'el and expose all the racist mythmaking surrounding the 'founding of the 'Jewish' State of Yisro'el' (esp between the years of the initial UN Partition Resolution beginning in November 1947 through the UN Resolution 181 calling for 'partition' and the years which immediately followed ) mainly by examining previously withheld key documents (esp. the overtly racist 'private' correspondence of Ben-Guiron to various person e.g. to Moshe Sharett, the new 'foreign Minister Designate' in early 1948, who was living abroad at the time) whose evidence shatters your jejune presuppositions which you have gulllibly espoused in your post. Expressions such as

'We cannot any longer wait for a Tagmul (Palestinian armed lit. 'retaliation') to come along in our favour so we can strike back with force - rather we must now begin our own Yotzmah (i.e. take the lit. 'initiative') against these indigenous goyim that live now in Eretz Yisro'el wherein the world as a whole must believe that the Arabs were the ones who had initiated the violence - I cannot stress this strongly enough...as you know, the indigenous Arab population would like to keep their lives 'as normal' and will not give us enough military retaliation to cause us to justify wiping them off the face of the land - we must begin our own aggressive campaign..and make it look like they did it...'

---Ben Gurion to Moshe Sharrett, Dec 1947


And don't ever forget the familiar mantra/motto of the Mossad : 'By DECEPTION you shall wage War....'

The key word is 'deception' here...now... go read around your subject a little and don't be shocked as to what dirty little worms you might uncover when you flip over the dirty underbelly of modern Yisro'eli history....what we to-day call the Black Pages...

And very black they are indeed...

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

And? Any nation can declare anything to be cassus belli. This ability does not actually mean that wars launched on the basis of said cassus belli are actually valid and legal. That is, just because Israel ways "We will consider X to be justification for war" does not actually mean that they have any legal right or authority to declare war over X. That is, closing the straits to Israeli shipping is not an act of military aggression, and is thus not valid cause for war under the international laws of warfare. Now, if Egypt had parked its navy in Israeli territorial waters to keep ships from leaving Elat, that would qualify. Egypt deciding to close its territorial waters to shipping from a nation - any nation - is Egypt's right as a sovereign nation

So if Panama decided to block the panama canal to lets say China, that wouldnt be a provocation of war? Even though China would be 'attacked' economically front such an act? Listen. and please dont bother citing latin expressions. Words can cause fights, just as much as a physical action.. If i use a particular street to get to work and getting to work, getting paid, and providing for my family depends on me getting to work on time, and thus me using this route, and some 'nemesis' of mine decides to park his car in front of the street where his house is... this wouldnt be very fair, would it? Egypt may consider the suez canal its 'territory' but nonetheless, many many countries depend on their ships going through this canal in order to participate in international commerce. So Israels warning very much was a valid warning. This wasnt just some "any nation can declare anything to be cassus belli"..No, this is something that if done, could have disastrous effects on the Israeli economy. On their standard of living. And thus it is undoubtedly, and incontrovertibly a legitimate provocation of war.

Is that sort of like New York building on its own land in Quebec? Do you even understand the words you're stringing together?

This is a stupid analogy. The west Bank has since time immemorial been called "Judea and Samaria"...Judea, in Hebrew ,Yehuda, like Yehudim, the Jews who were exiled from there. A land which bears copious witness to their connection with it. It is nothing at all like Quebec and New York .

reply to post by dontreally

This wasnt just some "any nation can declare anything to be cassus belli"..No, this is something that if done, could have disastrous effects on the Israeli economy. On their standard of living. And thus it is undoubtedly, and incontrovertibly a legitimate provocation of war.

BS, shipping still got through before the canal was built..
It just takes longer but it isn't disastrous as you state..

And if blockading a canal on your own land is "undoubtedly, and incontrovertibly a legitimate provocation of war"
then what is blockading the entire population of Palestine ?
Yet you question why Hamas responds??
Hypocrisy much??.......But then it is Israel.

reply to post by TheMaverick


The Arabs stole it from the Jews. The Jews smartly were given some of their land back and took the rest only AFTER being attacked by the Arabs. The Arabs have a million square miles of land and its all a big waste in most cases. Why do they need another 100 square miles of land?? Have you ever asked yourself that?

I hope you study ancient history and learn that Palestine was never a nation and never will be. It was a region encompassing most of the mid-east in biblical times. Hell Yassar Arrafat invented the word Palestinian to put a name with the false cause.

Jerusalem is not even Islams holiest site yet it is for Jews and Christians yet we have to put up with them ransacking our most holiest site and building a mosque on-top of ours.

Do you think they would allow us to do that to Mecca, HELL NO!!!

As far as im concerned we should destroy that abomination at the Temple Mount and to hell with the consequence.

This whole Pally game is a lie made by the devil himself to punish us.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant

Originally posted by The Old American
Dear God in heaven, Israel is building houses for Israelis in Israel? What's next? America building houses in America for Americans? Italy building homes in...in...ITALY?!? Someone call the U.N.! We have to stop this NOW!


/TOA

No Israel is building houses in Palestine.

So you can say the same thing about Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon? Palestine was and will never be a state. It was a region in BIBLICAL times, you know when the Arabs stole the land from the Jews!!!!!!!

Get your facts straight and stop smelling the bull the NAZI Arabs are cooking for you.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Obama did another speech today about Israel... and guess what Israel has done again.

Israel approves new West Bank settler homes: NGO

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak has approved the construction of 294 new homes in Beitar Ilit settlement on the occupied West Bank, anti-settlement NGO Peace Now reported on Sunday.

Everytime Obama speaks about Israel going back to 1967 borders, Israel approves new settlements. They really don't care.

Obama should cut their foreign aid ASAP.

I really feel sorry for you for ever being against Israel. Obama doesn't scare Israel, its the other way around. Israel can not afford to listen to this Jackal Obama.

reply to post by Sky watcher


I hope you learn some history also..

The Jews smartly were given some of their land back and took the rest only AFTER being attacked by the Arabs.

Israel stole the land when ISRAEL attacked the Arabs in 1967..Fact..

reply to post by gem_man

Of course Israel AGREED by signing the Oslo accord NOT to build any more settlements but then when did Israel honor any of their agreements?

Of course you can show me the paragraph/article or even "enclosed letter" (big HINT) stating that Israel will not build no more settlements that was signed by Israel as part of Oslo accord.
But when honoring real facts is important when smearing Israel is in agenda?

reply to post by Sigismundus

By DECEPTION you shall wage War....'

Well , you certainly do. Care to state source for Ben Gurion letter citation? You know, saying thousand times Yisroel or goyim will not turn it into truth.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Hi Zero

It would help you understand the larger picture if you went out and got the book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe - so you can read first hand all the mountains of shocking documentary evidence presented there for yourself - his bibliogrpahy and all of his hundreds of original source citations/footnotes etc. are very extensive - even though unfortunately a good chunk of the Ben Gurion material is still in Hebrew and yet to be translated for the layman-

Only be warned: Pappe's inciteful book is not for the squeamish - it would probably shock any newcomer to this material to his foundations if he / she has never come across a wealth of so much previously squelched information - including so many of the nasty (and until the days of the Internet, well-covered up in the past) details ref: Ben Gurion's highly (what we would call to-day 'downright racist' genocidal/exterminatory plans (= using Yisro'eli 'false flag operations' and other war 'deceptions') against the Palestinian civilian population which resulted in such atrocities as Deir Yasin (the book lists more than 25 of such massacres, some of which came to the 'shock and awe' of Albert Einstein who asked the Israeli govt to cease and desist in such atrocities against unarmed civilians -

The document source for the original Nov 1947 quote was taken from the papers currently being housed in the Ben-Gurion Archives 1.1.47 to 1.31.48 - and close-corresponding sentiments of not only David Ben Gurion but also those who supported his plan for 'incentives' to make Palestine 'Arab-rein' (='free of Arabs') and a lot of new and disgusting like-documentation can be found in the recently released (supposedly 'unexpurgated') Ben Gurion Diaries (esp those from 1935 to 1957 - and during 1947-1951 in reference to e.g. the Plan Gimmel and the revised Plan Dalet which called for 'false flag' Hagana type massacres carried out by the Stern and Irgun 'zionist' terrorist 'gangs specifically targeted unarmed civilian Palestinian villages) also: see e.g. the documents held in the CZA - The Cental Zionist Archives, specifically 45/1 protocol 2 of 2nd November 1947 which states the same exterminatory plan of action against the indigenous Palestinian civilian population.

The more one digs, the more one finds of these atrocities, which are beyond sickenig to the modern reader.

I can quote some other related documents from the Ben Gurion Diaries in another post when I get some time this week - the race hatred contained in them is more than a little shocking to say the least - that is, if one has any humanity at all left...

It may not matter how many houses the settlers get allocated to them. The dynamics of the whole area are slowly changing and probably not to the favour of Israel. Also the Palestinians outbreed the Israelis and although some Orthodox and settler families have large numbers of children, eventually the Palestinians will outnumber the Israelis. +
(Their number does not include those Palestinians living outside their homeland).

Its actually an incredible nuisance that when the Jews were told to leave Babylon, they decided for some reason not to return to the land they claim their God gave them and to their capital city Jerusalem.

Had they have gone back immediately on leaving Babylon to that land today's situation would not exist.