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Cold Fusion, Still alive and kicking

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posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Inventors Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi announced the "E-CAT" in January claiming they had created a reactor that produces massive amounts of energy by fusing nickel and hydrogen nuclei at room temperature.





The latest tests on the energy catalyzer by NyTeknik took place in Bologna on April 19 and 28. The test, as with previous tests, aimed to measure the net energy that the device generates as accurately as possible. The results of the tests from both dates showed a developed net power of between 2.3 and 2.6 kilowatts with and input electric power of 300 watts. (www.nyteknik.se...)




Linky


This is somthing we need to keep a eye on. If this continues to be proven and works commercially, this will be on the scale of us deiscovering fire all over again. It will be one of the biggest scienctific discoveries of our time.

edit on 19-5-2011 by DrakeDarc because: Forgot the link.




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by DrakeDarc
 


Very cool that it is proving capable of overunity.

If enough energy starts coming from effectively free sources (the plenum would be optimal), the need for money will dissipate.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by DrakeDarc
 


s#it. If the tests continue to stand up I'd be expecting a knock on my door which extends into my lab and around the device altogether. I wonder who's writing it in their agenda to buy them out?

I feel like we're watching the seeds of a conspiracy a la Tesla being planted.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Yea, it has been covered, but this is NEW news saying a fairly well known tech company tested and proved what the inventors were saying, adding more credibility to their story, making it more realistic that it WILL change things.
edit on 19-5-2011 by DrakeDarc because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by windus
 


I was thinking the same thing. I just hope these guys aren't "Mugged" or in a car "Accident" Lets just hope.
edit on 19-5-2011 by DrakeDarc because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by DrakeDarc
 


Very cool that it is proving capable of overunity.

If enough energy starts coming from effectively free sources (the plenum would be optimal), the need for money will dissipate.


And when Rossi turns out to be a fraud... What then?


Cry suppression....




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Its being proved to work. The company NYTECNIK just tested it. Wheres the inclination of being a fraud coming from?

From the Company



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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The latest from Rossi's house of cards:

Dear Ing. Rossi: what are the (pre)conditions for entering the group of people that are doing a sort of “beta testing” of the E-cat, providing a STRICT Not disclosure agreement, where and if needed?
I can ensure that some accademics here in italy are really interested in a indipendent evaluation and some has the correct “pedigree” not only as for the field of application but for the human and social point of view.
One of these could be, Prof. U. Bardi of the University of Florence, Who has been deeply involved either on the topic of oil depletion (is the founder of aspo italia) and all the other main issues concerning the energy emergency in our little earth. Our association ha proved in the course of the years not to be easily muted or silenced by the main stream majors.
Besides that we are not afraid to put at test new ideas as proved, with the story of the “cinquino elettrico” ( you can check on internet about that, and of kitegen.
You could check as well by yourself about Aspo and Ugo Bardi.

Could we arrange something about having one of the prototipe and put it at work, as well as the others, at the University of Florence, department of chimics, under the responsibility of Prof. bardi?
Good, work, anyway,

Pietro Cambi


Rossi has been offered for someone to come in and verify. Someone who isn't connected to him...

His response:


Andrea Rossi
May 18th, 2011 at 11:12 AM

Dear Dr Pietro Cambi:
We will not make any other validation test after the ones we already did. From November our products will be on the market. As for the R&D we already made an agreement with other Universities.
Warm regards,
A.R.
1

He can't hide behind the proprietary info argument because he already stated he has the reactors running all over the place:


Q:Some good E-Cat trivia for the fans:
1. How many e-cats are in continuous operation today? [97]
2. How many geographic locations are e-cats running today? [4]
3. Are there any e-cats running in the US with businesses you own or individuals you trust? [Yes]
4. Any estimate on how much fuel has been spent over the life of your research? [Less than if I was taxist]
5. Is there anything confidential about how you use electrolysis for the reactor is is that industry standard technology? [I do not use electrolysis]





He doesn't need to verify because he already made a deal with his buddies from N.H.


How much do you pay for the agreement?

Cassarino: Unfortunately that’s confidential.

Have you paid anything to Rossi yet?

Cassarino: Yes we have.

How much?

Cassarino: Let’s put it like this, it was an important piece of the equation.
1

There goes the argument that Rossi wasn't going to accept money until the ecats were turning profit. So just another broken card holding up the house.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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So we will have to wait and see happens then.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Nuts. I was eager to believe in honest human ingenuity.

Is cold fusion just as silly and invalid as that orgone energy nonsense or a variety of hackneyed Tesla side projects? Or is it just too difficult and expensive to be plausibly achieved by a small group of people like this.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by DrakeDarc
reply to post by boncho
 


Its being proved to work. The company NYTECNIK just tested it. Wheres the inclination of being a fraud coming from?

From the Company


No independent blind tests were ever done. And the ecat has never been tested in a closed system. Seems like it would be the first thing someone would do when achieving the results that Rossi's claims.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by windus
Is cold fusion just as silly and invalid as that orgone energy nonsense or a variety of hackneyed Tesla side projects? Or is it just too difficult and expensive to be plausibly achieved by a small group of people like this.
The jury is still out on cold fusion. The US Navy has published an interesting paper, but nobody has confirmed it (that I'm aware of) and critics say they didn't rule out other sources for the high energy neutrons. So we'll see. Neutrons are hard to detect.

Boncho is right about this outfit, it has all the signs of being fraudulent. I'd actually like to be proven wrong in this case, if they are really selling working over-unity generators in a few months. But I'd be willing to bet donuts to dollars that won't happen and there will be a million excuses like there always are surrounding claims like this. This reminds me of 2001 when Bearden said he'd be in commercial production of his gadget by 2002. That didn't happen and now he's asking for 11 million dollars from investors, or should we call them "suckers", if they fall for it?
edit on 20-5-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by Amaterasu
reply to post by DrakeDarc
 


Very cool that it is proving capable of overunity.

If enough energy starts coming from effectively free sources (the plenum would be optimal), the need for money will dissipate.


And when Rossi turns out to be a fraud... What then?

Cry suppression....



Only if Their place is raided and all tech removed, and They both "commit suicide" or have a "car accident." Or if They suddenly withdraw the apparatus and go silent.

When those things happen, I do cry "suppression." And it HAS happened. Look into Royal Rife, Wilhelm Reich, and many others.

If, on the other hand, Their machine is proven to be a hoax, showing HOW it was hoaxed... I doubt "suppression" will be the word of the day.

What will YOU do when Rossi turns out to be genuine?



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 





What will YOU do when Rossi turns out to be genuine?


Invest in stock.....


But I already did my due diligence on it and unfortunately, it is too risky.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Rossi is not selling stock. He does not want investors. He wants customers and will guarantee his invention or the customer will not have to pay. He gets no money up front.

This doesn't sound like a scam to me.

Having read many LENR papers, I suspect that this is real. The theory won't be known for a while but the effect doesn't need a theory to work.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by boncho
 


Rossi is not selling stock. He does not want investors. He wants customers and will guarantee his invention or the customer will not have to pay. He gets no money up front.

This doesn't sound like a scam to me.

Having read many LENR papers, I suspect that this is real. The theory won't be known for a while but the effect doesn't need a theory to work.


Wow, you missed the earlier post: Rossi already took money. The lies fall down one by one with this guy. Everything that is used to defend the guy seems to break away as the man is not good for his word whatsoever.

How much do you pay for the agreement?

Cassarino: Unfortunately that’s confidential.

Have you paid anything to Rossi yet?

Cassarino: Yes we have.

How much?

Cassarino: Let’s put it like this, it was an important piece of the equation.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Why did he get money? Rights to sell the technology.

He can't make much money selling exclusive franchises. If he wanted investors he could get many more than a small US company.

All of this will resolve itself, in time, and squealing about fraud without evidence will only require you to eat crow if it works.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


I have no problem eating crow if it works. In fact, I would happy to be cut down a notch. If you read the other threads on the forum regarding Rossi you will see where my position comes from. But I can summarize:


He ran a company that was paid money to take in toxic waste, he then claimed to convert it to usable fuel and "sold" it to a company that was defunct and no longer actually operation.

He caused millions of dollars in environmental damage with PetroDragon, the company was charged with fraud and other charges, around the same time he was charged with tax evasion because he was transporting a large sum of gold over an international border.

Rossi racked up five convictions from this mess but never really explained them.

His systems that he had in Italy were sold across the world, when they didn't do what they were supposed to for the clients that purchased, he blamed shoddy manufacturing.

He has a dead person working on his online blog, that looks and is represented as a "physics journal", but it is not a journal.

He has another person on the board that claimed to be a secret agent for the DOE, whose wife went undercover as a hooker to expose the prostitution world, but now writes about "free energy" and "cold fusion".

Oh, he has a fake diploma from Kensington U, which was charged and shut down by the government because it was in fact a diploma mill.

Defkalion, the company that was to do the 1mw plant, was created a few months ago. Was made very similar to another company with a similar name. Has no one established working for it, (in fact, the representatives use gmail accounts)


There is a few more items, but they are more rumors than anything so I wont touch on them. Oh, and then there is the constant lying and story changes that seem to happen on a monthly basis.


So yeah, I'll hold my breath.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 

reply to post by boncho
 

Pteridine and boncho, I think both of you are great contributors to ATS. I like reading posts from both of you and find them informative and even if I may not always agree with your positions, I find you support them admirably which is what great debating and forum posting is all about.

But I've gotta go with boncho on this one.

And yes pteridine, you might be right and boncho and I might be eating crow a year from now, and frankly, nothing would make me happier, especially since my electric bill will go down by 90%, I can buy plenty of ketchup with the extra $90 a month, to season the crow I'm eating!


By the way I'm not arguing that cold fusion won't work someday, it might, though I think the jury is still out on cold fusion or LENR in general. But I think boncho makes some very good points about why this outfit is suspect, that have nothing to do with cold fusion.

But I guess we are all in a "wait and see" mode since Rossi said he'd give the university a unit to experiment on later this year. I don't fully understand why he'd need to pay them 500,000 Euros to develop and test it:

www.nyteknik.se...


So far he says he has invested 500,000 Euros in developing and building 100 reactors, of ten kilowatts each, that comprise the Athens plant. He also claims that more than a thousand reactors have been built and destroyed during the development...From Leonardo Corporation Rossi is now paying the remaining 500,000 Euros to the Physics Department of Bologna University, following a new agreement under which the university will help Rossi with the continued development of the reactor and studies of its physical phenomena.
I have some experience in business planning, and this business plan doesn't make much sense. In the business world i operate in, you develop the product first, then you sell and manufacture it. His timeline is very strange since he's manufacturing the generators, but also paying the university a fortune for development?

But at least he's using his own money and not begging for investors, so I give him credit for that.

Let's compare notes in 2012 and see if his installation in Athens, Greece is really running. That should be interesting.



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