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PC Racist Affirmative Action Madness

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posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:01 AM
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Two stories that reveal the madness behind affirmative action in the US ;

www.suntimes.com...

" The Chicago Fire Department must hire 111 bypassed black firefighter candidates — and distribute “tens of millions of dollars” in damages to 6,000 others who will never get that chance — a federal appeals court ruled Friday, upholding a landmark ruling."


" “The city gave a test back in 1995 that did not measure the ability to be a firefighter. It made it more than six times more likely that white applicants would be hired rather than African Americans with no job-related justification. Nothing about getting a high score on that test predicted anything about whether you’d be a superior firefighter.”

When results from the 1995 entrance exam were disappointing for minorities, the city established a cutoff score of 89 and hired randomly from the top 1,800 “well-qualified” candidates.

In 2005, a federal judge ruled that the city’s decision had the effect of perpetuating the predominantly white status quo, since 78 percent of those ‘‘well-qualified’’ candidates were white. "


Sound bad doesnt it.


Those evil racist white men in the Chicago fire service designed a test deliberatly to exclude black candidates from passing the test to keep the fire service all white.


Hold on , but what does this say ;


www.vdare.com...


" Daley set out to create an objective, relevant test that would also get rid of the racial gap. He would pay big money for cutting edge civil service exams that would not discriminate against blacks and Hispanics.

Daley gave a large contract to a black consultant named Dr. James Outtz, who positions himself as a psychometrician who could come up with tests that minorities would do well upon. As the Chicago Sun-Times reported in 2009, "The ‘95 exam was drafted by an African American with an eye toward diversifying the Fire Department."


Dr. James Outzz is black by the way.

The previous test before 1995 was racist as more whites than blacks passed the old test.

So the Chicago fire service hired a black psychologist Dr. James Outzz ( which is not racist of course is it
) specifically to create a test in 1995 that would mean more blacks than whites would pass the entrance test ( which is also not racist is it
).

Then when the new 1995 test fails to ensure more blacks than whites pass the test ( which is not racist is it
), the Chicago fire department are then sued for tens of millions of dollars by only black applicants ( but not failed white applicants which is not racist is it
) as they failed the test designed by the black psychologist Dr. James Outtz which was specifically designed and implemented in the fire service as a test to ensure more black males passed the test than whites ( which is not racist is it
)

Yep.

America has gone mad.


edit on 19-5-2011 by leejohnbarnes because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2011 by leejohnbarnes because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2011 by leejohnbarnes because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 


Granted these two stories do show a pretty extreme political correctness but it's important to remember that in some places there is still very real discrimination against minorities. Whilst I don't agree with these sorts of programs which aim to favour certain people one has to bear in mind that these things aren't meant to be crazy they're meant to get rid of some of the prejudices that still remain



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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How do you design a test that favours black or white people?
Aren't you all American's?
Do black American's get a different type education to white American's?



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 


Granted these two stories do show a pretty extreme political correctness but it's important to remember that in some places there is still very real discrimination against minorities. Whilst I don't agree with these sorts of programs which aim to favour certain people one has to bear in mind that these things aren't meant to be crazy they're meant to get rid of some of the prejudices that still remain



I agree that discirmination exists.

But imposing a new form of racial discrmination, affirmative action, to end white racism is to legitimise and institutionalise racism itself.

What next - affirmative action laws to force more white people to be able to NBA stars ?

Laws to ensure white people can be olympic marathon and spinters ?

This is all getting very Kurt Vonnegut and 'Harrison Bergerson' to my way of thinking.

What next - chains on the feet of black basketball stars to ensure more white men can jump higher ?

www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by Roguesheep
 


Same here i thought they where all americans first, but i guess somebody decided it will be better to call them african american, i dont get that...



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 


Exactly it is going a bit overboard I'd agree with that 100%. I think the motives are well intentioned but their actions are a bit drastic

edit on 19-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:46 AM
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What next - affirmative action laws to force more white people to be able to NBA stars ?


It's things like this that give you away...you know, along with the question mark you put next to the psychologists color(wtf?)

The issue in these cases is; that in the first place - discrimination is tolerated by people like you. Did you make a thread about the faulty-hiring they did prior to being caught? No? I wonder why.

Test results were IRRELEVANT before. How is it remotely acceptable that a person scoring closer to 100% is not hired over someone who scores less? Is it because of their family name? Skin color?

It then takes a psychologist and a way-out-there approach to try and fix things.

But because of people like you, this "fixing things" will be regarded as an enemy move. So you will perpetuate this racism. Kind of like what your "enemy" is doing.

The most prudent move would've been to fire people responsible for hiring, hire new ones - add clausules to their contract- which is ridiculous but bear with me-, put in a system that checks test results compared to hired/not-hired.

But that's too complicated and the people(black, white, yellow, green, purple, blue etc before you get the wrong idea AGAIN) won't be able to relay the point - they want to see some direct justice - ie. hiring of people based on skin color.

It's like running around in a circle, within a circle within a circle.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by dukeofjive
 


It doesn't make sense to me either it's a bit like me calling myself "Irish English" because my grandparent's
come from Ireland even though I have never lived or even visited the country.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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Personal responsibility has left the building. (Along with Elvis)
Why blame yourself when you can blame the test, society, white men, sun spots. . .
edit on 19-5-2011 by beezzer because: white mans fault



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini

What next - affirmative action laws to force more white people to be able to NBA stars ?


It's things like this that give you away...you know, along with the question mark you put next to the psychologists color(wtf?)

The issue in these cases is; that in the first place - discrimination is tolerated by people like you. Did you make a thread about the faulty-hiring they did prior to being caught? No? I wonder why.

Test results were IRRELEVANT before. How is it remotely acceptable that a person scoring closer to 100% is not hired over someone who scores less? Is it because of their family name? Skin color?

It then takes a psychologist and a way-out-there approach to try and fix things.

But because of people like you, this "fixing things" will be regarded as an enemy move. So you will perpetuate this racism. Kind of like what your "enemy" is doing.

The most prudent move would've been to fire people responsible for hiring, hire new ones - add clausules to their contract- which is ridiculous but bear with me-, put in a system that checks test results compared to hired/not-hired.

But that's too complicated and the people(black, white, yellow, green, purple, blue etc before you get the wrong idea AGAIN) won't be able to relay the point - they want to see some direct justice - ie. hiring of people based on skin color.

It's like running around in a circle, within a circle within a circle.


Why would you fire anyone? A test is a test. Skin color makes no difference in how someone takes or answers a test, does it? If I take a math test, and a black person takes a math test, does either of us have an advantage or disadvantage because of the color of our skin?

If I was a fireman, I would rather have a guy who scored high on the test have my back, than someone, white or black, who just got the job because of quotas.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini

What next - affirmative action laws to force more white people to be able to NBA stars ?


It's things like this that give you away...you know, along with the question mark you put next to the psychologists color(wtf?)

The issue in these cases is; that in the first place - discrimination is tolerated by people like you. Did you make a thread about the faulty-hiring they did prior to being caught? No? I wonder why.

Test results were IRRELEVANT before. How is it remotely acceptable that a person scoring closer to 100% is not hired over someone who scores less? Is it because of their family name? Skin color?

It then takes a psychologist and a way-out-there approach to try and fix things.

But because of people like you, this "fixing things" will be regarded as an enemy move. So you will perpetuate this racism. Kind of like what your "enemy" is doing.

The most prudent move would've been to fire people responsible for hiring, hire new ones - add clausules to their contract- which is ridiculous but bear with me-, put in a system that checks test results compared to hired/not-hired.

But that's too complicated and the people(black, white, yellow, green, purple, blue etc before you get the wrong idea AGAIN) won't be able to relay the point - they want to see some direct justice - ie. hiring of people based on skin color.

It's like running around in a circle, within a circle within a circle.



The fact the only threads you jump on Zamini are the ones that seek to defend white people from racism, and you always defend the racists, shows us all we need to know where you are coming from.

Re-read the article - you have ignored the facts to try and create facile narrative that bears no rfelction of the reality, simply in order to allow you to be racist against whites.

The tests were not neutral tests - they were predicated on ensuring more blacks than whites passed the tests and were formulated by a black pyschologist for that very reason.

So now you want the entire basis of our society - a meritocracy - to be scrapped to ensure a racial outcome.

What next - should e hire blind fire fighters to assist the blind ?

What about fire fighters with no legs ?

Or fire fighters with no arms to represent the armless ?

Trust zamini to ignore the whole issue - that the tests were written by a black psychologist to employ more blacks -in order to complain that the problem was the pre-1995 tests.

Yep - welcome to Zaminis World.

Its not the one everyone else lives in.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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Can someone PLEASE explain to me how a written test can favor one race over another? This has always baffled me. What questions are asked that one race can answer, but another race has difficulty with? This is a civil service exam we are talking about, right?



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by retiredTxn
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how a written test can favor one race over another? This has always baffled me. What questions are asked that one race can answer, but another race has difficulty with? This is a civil service exam we are talking about, right?



The simple solution is to lower the test scores.

The theory goes that as blacks dont go to university in relation to the same numbers of whites, this is racist and due to white oppression, and therefore test scores must be lowered to deal with that racism by allowing blacks to join on lower test scores.

Regardless of the reason why individuals do not go to university, if one racial group goes more often then that is regarded as due to racism.

Exept of course if the people not going to university are white and working class.

Then its not racism - thats a class issue and the parents of white childen must be blamed for not inspiring their children enough to go to university.

But the fact that the NBA, American Football, soccer, sport and the music business all have more black than white numbers in proportion to their percentage of the population is not racism though, that is something positive to be admired.




edit on 19-5-2011 by leejohnbarnes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


Why would you fire anyone?


If I were in charge I wouldn't just fire the people responsible. I would charge them with taking away the livelihood of people out of sheer ignorance.


A test is a test. Skin color makes no difference in how someone takes or answers a test, does it?


I completely agree with you.

SO WHY WERE PEOPLE DENIED BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR?

From the article which I hope you read:


“The city gave a test back in 1995 that did not measure the ability to be a firefighter. It made it more than six times more likely that white applicants would be hired rather than African Americans with no job-related justification. Nothing about getting a high score on that test predicted anything about whether you’d be a superior firefighter.”



If I was a fireman, I would rather have a guy who scored high on the test have my back, than someone, white or black, who just got the job because of quotas.


If you'd read with more attention you would have known, that prior to this ruling, you would've been stuck with people who were scoring high or low on a test that had little to do with the occupation. If anything, I'd argue that the test(I'm taking it is a test to see how one's brain would work in times of stress) would put you in harms way more so than not.

The tests were NOT relevant to the occupation. They were most likely some gibberish tests which didn't reflect on the job. So when a test does not reflect on the job, then how was hiring done? Well, apparently based on skin color.


Re-read the article - you have ignored the facts to try and create facile narrative that bears no rfelction of the reality, simply in order to allow you to be racist against whites.


You re-read the article and then you STILL posted?


The tests were not neutral tests - they were predicated on ensuring more blacks than whites passed the tests and were formulated by a black pyschologist for that very reason.


If you would care to educate yourself, it is a GIVEN that people with different cultural backgrounds make tests different than compared to those with a Anglo-Saxon-Christian(you get jumpy about the word white no?) cultural background(which is also a cultural background - so you doing tests in China wouldn't net you the same results as the test in the USA - even if the only difference was the way questions were formed). This is shown with IQ tests and the whole #storm behind them.

So I see absolutely nothing wrong with making a test more apt to the takers of the test, but not to the length of compromising the abilities needed in order to become whatever you are taking a test for.


What next - should e hire blind fire fighters to assist the blind ?


This gives you away. You are now comparing discrimination based on skin color to discrimination based on the lack of a capability. I can't tell you without using words that would get this post scrapped, how backward your thinking is.



Trust zamini to ignore the whole issue - that the tests were written by a black psychologist to employ more blacks -in order to complain that the problem was the pre-1995 tests.


Come on..don't make it that easy.



Yep - welcome to Zaminis World.


I don't think you hold the authority to welcome anyone into my world



Its not the one everyone else lives in.


Tell me something new...

Edit:

I honestly believe you lack the intelligence level needed to comprehend these situations. Why do you force yourself into such debates then? Yes, racism is moronic. Yes, reverse racism is equally moronic. That's why your approach and the approach of authorities in this case should be scrutinized. But not based on a moronic notion of skin color, but rather a scientific-business like approach.
edit on 19-5-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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I just want to say as a black american, I'm sick and tried of affirmative action. Why would I want something in law that says that someone gave me something because im black. Or when I work my butt off at work and get a raise or promotion, to be told that the reason i got it is because of affirmative action. Before affirmative action my ancestors had it hard , But they stepped up to the plate and their achievements meant something . I just think affirmative action , welfare , and things like this made us weak. Just look at how fast blacks were move up before welfare, and affirmative action.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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I will take this very slowly for you zamini.

Are you ready.

You may need some crayons to take notes so you can follow this - the big blue one and the red one on a big bit of white paper will allow you to make a nice flow chart.

Okay then - here we go.

Prior to 1995 a 'problem' was discovered in that more whites than blacks were passing the fire fighter entrance exams.

So in 1995 they ordered new tests to be designed.

The new tests were specifically designed by a black psychologist to ensure that more black people passed the tests.

Yet the problem persisted -again more white people passed the test than blacks.


So the failed black applicants went to court and said the tests were flawed as they contained questions not related to the role of fire fighters.

They were correct.

They contained questions unrelated to the fire service that were designed to favour black people when they answered them, and to discriminate against whites when they tried to answer them.

SHOCK - HORROR !

Even after these racially biased questions were included in the new test - still more whites than blacks passed the test !

DOH !

SO THE FAILED BLACK APPLICANTS WENT TO COURT AND SUED THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

So the court then states that the tests designed by the black psychologist to ensure more black people passed the test, were racist as they still did not result in more black people passing the test and also that as the questions in the test were unrelated to the fire serivice, and were designed to allow more blacks than whites to answer those questions, that the test was fundamentally flawed. .

Therefore the court in its judgement stated that the tests designed by a black psychologist to get more black people to pass the tests were rubbish and awarded in favour of the failed black applicants.

Of course they were rubbish - the test wasnt designed to get the best qualified people for the fire service, the test was designed to ensure more black people got into the fire service - and so the test they contained questions based on issues unrelated to the fire service that black people could answer easier simply as they were black.

Therefore the court held that as ;

1) The test contained questions that were unrelated to the role of the fire service

2) that the test still meant less black people than white people passed the test

that the fire brugade were liable in law for the black people failing the test, even though the test was designed by a black psychologist to ensure more black people were able to join the fire service.

Heres a thought ;

1) why didnt they employ a psychologist who could draft up a test that could ensure more black people could pass the test, instead of a black psychologist on the racist assumption that a black psychologist could draft up a test that favoured black people more efficiently than a black one just because he was black.

A bit racist that isnt it.

2) Why would they create a test in the first place that rejected merit and was designed solely to ensure more black people passed the test than whites ?

A bit racist isnt that.

3) why didnt they just accept the fact that blacks are less able to pass the exams to be a firefighter than whites and simply give the jobs based on merit rather than assuming that as less blacks pass the test, that this was duee to some innate racial bias in the tests ?

Oh no - thats facing reality and we cannot do that

I am white.

I could not be a firefighter.

Do I scream racism - no.




As for you Zamini - it appears that you are unable to understand the issues involved in this case, so your opinion is therefore meaningless.

Now carry on being racist to whites, you are good at that even if you are not very good at being able to contextually analyse these cases for the relevant issues in this discussion

Did you remember to use your nice crayons ? .




edit on 19-5-2011 by leejohnbarnes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 



Therefore the court in his judgement stateds that the tests designed by a black psychologist to get more black people to pass the tests were rubbish and awarded in favour of the failed black applicants.


There are scientific reasons for that, but who would pay attention to that on a website that denies ignorance.

Lets just base it on skin color.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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Oh and Zamini ;

" The city gave a test back in 1995 that did not measure the ability to be a firefighter. It made it more than six times more likely that white applicants would be hired rather than African Americans with no job-related justification. Nothing about getting a high score on that test predicted anything about whether you’d be a superior firefighter.”


The 1995 test the guy is talking about in the quote above was a test designed by a black psychologist, a test designed to ensure more blacks than whites passed the test and a test imposed on the fire service to ensure that more blacks were recruited to the fire service.

So even though ;

1) a black psychologist designed the test

2) the test was designed to favour black people and discrminate against whites

3) that the test was imposed on the fire service specifically to recruit more black fire fighters

The result of that test was that six times more whites than blacks passed the test.

Just goes to prove - blaming racism was always bogus.

That creating anti-white racist tests will not and does not ensure more blacks will be able to pass the test and that even if you impose racist anti-white tests to help blacks that jthose blacks who fail that test will still be able to sue for damages for failing that anti-white racist test.

Pathetic.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 



Therefore the court in his judgement stateds that the tests designed by a black psychologist to get more black people to pass the tests were rubbish and awarded in favour of the failed black applicants.


There are scientific reasons for that, but who would pay attention to that on a website that denies ignorance.

Lets just base it on skin color.




Is that it !

Is that all you can say now I have torn your false statements to total shreds !

Ha ha ha ha you have been busted and owned !




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by leejohnbarnes
 


There are scientific reasons for that, but who would pay attention to that on a website that denies ignorance.

Lets just base it on skin color.


What scientific reasons? What questions are asked that one race can answer better than another? Seems all anyone wants to do is base hiring on race, rather than highest scores. Examples of questions they might ask that favor one race over another?




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