Big oil conspiracy! 376mpg Opel car back in 1973

MODS - if this is in the wrong section, I apologise and please move to the relevant section.

The great oil swindle.

While reading that Germany had just performed a test and made a conventional car perform 126mpg (link at the bottom of the page), I did find this interesting article below.

It looks like big oil companies have already been testing vehicles that can do 349mpg yet that information is not widely known (and possibly they do not want you to know).

So here goes, There was a bet placed between two engineers regarding who could get the best fuel economy.

General motors were predicting 80mpg cars back in 1939 then Shell started to investigate 'greener cars' (before the term was made up).

What is interesting about this story is :-

1. these fuel economy figures were achieved at all
2. the tests were started back in 1939 running to 1979
3. what are they achieving now (that we do not know about).

So from the story (below) are we all to wrap our cars up in thermal blankets and superheat our fuel tanks to get uber mileage ?

Quote from web site :-

Some folks at Shell Oil Co. wrote “Fuel Economy of the Gasoline Engine” (ISBN 0-470-99132-1); it was published by John Wiley & Sons, New York, in 1977. On page 42 Shell Oil quotes the President of General Motors, he, in 1929, predicted 80 MPG by 1939. Between pages 221 and 223 Shell writes of their achievements: 49.73 MPG around 1939; 149.95 MPG with a 1947 Studebaker in 1949; 244.35 MPG with a 1959 Fiat 600 in 1968; 376.59 MPG with a 1959 Opel in 1973. The Library of Congress (LOC), in September 1990, did not have a copy of this book. It was missing from the files. I bought my copy from Maryland Book Exchange around 1980 after a professor informed me that it was used as an engineering text at the University of West Virginia. VPI published a paper, March 1979, concerning maximum achievable fuel economy. This paper has several charts illustrating achievable and impossible fuel economy.

Link here

Big Oil conspiracy

Shell's High Mileage Test Car (Fiat 500) can be found at :-

Shell Fiat test car

Skoda Fabia smashed fuel economy record :-

Skoda Fabia smashed fuel record

This is awful however, the government has always been known to not promote savings on fuel usage.

Hence the electric car has taken years to bring out along with hydrogen cars ... I think in Brazil or somewhere, cars have been running on Sugar Canes and even now, you can tweak your engine a little bit and run your diesel car on used cooking oil. But if the government finds you doing so, they fine you heavily.

If these cars, that you have mentioned, were still in production or were used by everyone, then how would countries and people become millionaires via oil etc.?

"They" don't want anyone to have low fuel taking cars ...

On the other hand, it's a bit our fault too, coz everyone wants big sized cars, big engined cars for speed etc. and when you cater for these aspects you have to make a car that takes a whole lot of fuel, be it diesel or petrol.

reply to post by diddy1234



The technology was there from the outset of the 20th century and I am thinking more than just Nikola Tesla had great ideas. We are being fleeced by people of great power. The monopoly of the controlling powers has to be broken up for us to move on socially, economically and as a species. They have accumulated so much wealth that it is apparent their game now is absolute power. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". That is one of the main reasons as to why the Declaration of Independence was meticulously written and then the Constitution was to be ammended by a democratic process. The technology in ones hands that makes you independent of "them", whoever they really are, foils their desire for absolute control. Sorry for the rant.

Excellent post. Very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing. What a great invention the gasoline vaporizer was. It wouldn't be the first time it took 70-80 years for technology to make it mainstream.

reply to post by diddy1234

I love how today, the Shell oil company is trying to get people to use their "Nitrogen Enriched" gasoline. Nitrogen is a waste of time, it does NOTHING BUT REDUCE mileage!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nitrogen does not burn and it slows the process and reduces heat which is what creates power, BTU's create the energy for power, the higher the burn, like with racing fuels, under compression, the greater the horsepower. Anyone who knows engines or has studied thermal dynamics knows this.

IT'S ALL A SCAM!!! DO NOT BUY SHELL FUEL WITH NITROGEN!!!!!

You realize you can go out and buy a car now that gets 80mpg??

FUSION HYBRID AVERAGES 81.5 MPG, SETS WORLD RECORD WITH 1,445 MILES ON SINGLE TANK OF GAS

Drivers trained in mileage-maximizing techniques achieve 1,445 miles on a single tank of gas in a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid – averaging 81.5 mpg in Washington, D.C. – and set world record for gasoline-powered, midsize sedan

1

The 1973 Shell-Opel car:
A letter from Shell.

"The Opel was driven 14 miles on 134 grams of fuel."

Was it a car that could be driven cross country with that kind of mileage? No. It was a heavily modified car that ran under ideal conditions for only 14 miles. The car's engine was heated and it vaporized the fuel before ignition, (from what I gather).

1

Interesting enough, a restoration company put up a warning page to anyone that would buy the near $400k Shell-Opel car (which the owner is trying to sell).Here is the warning page.

One of the things they mention is that the car is not road worthy. By looking at the pictures you can see that there is no suspension. They also say that there isn't enough power in the car for it to climb steep grades.

And finally, let' not forget we have emission standards today....




With all that being said, I think I'll look to a Fusion hybrid if I want a car with good gas mileage.

Good job on misrepresenting the idea.

You cannot buy the Fusion hybrid in the UK..... yet

Also like in Europe there is more competition from Diesel engined cars.

My original post was mainly to highlight :-

1. advances in technology going back to 1939, yet they are only coming to light now
2. why are we stuck with cars with 35 to 50 mpg's ?
3. these cars show what testing was performed from 1939 to 1979, so what are the oil companies testing now, cars with 500mpg ?

reply to post by boncho


About the Skoda Fabia

The claimed combined economy of the eco-hatch is 83.1mpg, but the Austrian specialist topped it with a combination of fuel-saving driving techniques.The feat took place on the A7 - Germany's longest motorway

Read more: www.autoexpress.co.uk...

I already posted the Fusion hybrid which gets around the same MPG. The drivers in this test used certain techniques that are not realistic of everyday driving to achieve a higher MPG.

This is nothing new. You can go out and buy the same class of car tomorrow if you wish.

more about the Skoda Fabia:

It's a diesel car. Diesels already get good mileage.But with little tricks you can get a great boost.

Driving 65mph will lower fuel mileage up to 15% as compared to driving 55.

1

Diesel fuel economy is nothing new....

Still, diesels are known for getting extra mileage out of every gallon of fuel. They offer better torque than many gasoline engines. And their price differential over gasoline models generally is much smaller than that for hybrids.

1





Hmm.... Coverup, suppression... I don't see it.

The Republicans have just successfully voted and insured that Big Oil keep getting welfare.

RON PAUL HOW COULD YOU side with Republicans. I thought you were a real American. I guess I was wrong.

Claimed fuel economy and real world economy are two different things.

These 'tests' are performed in a lab on a rolling road.
Some ECU management computers can detect when in a testing environment (like on a rolling road with the hand brake on) and then change the emission levels to achieve what us normal drives cannot.

Also regarding the EU testing (at least) the car chosen for a test has to be a production car but can have any number of fuel saving techniques added as long as they are available to customers as an optional extra.
For example low rolling resistant tires.

So your SX version of car may have had low rolling resistant tires, low viscosity engine oil, no spare tire and no water in the washer bottle.
Silly things like this that the real world driver just would not have.
Who would want a sports version of car with low rolling resistant tyres, but I bet they are an optional extra if you want it.

Check it out if you want, go to GM's web page and select a car you like.
Then see what optional extras there are to save fuel.
Ford in the UK even charge extra now to have a spare wheel on your brand new car !

Originally posted by diddy1234
You cannot buy the Fusion hybrid in the UK..... yet

Also like in Europe there is more competition from Diesel engined cars.

My original post was mainly to highlight :-

1. advances in technology going back to 1939, yet they are only coming to light now
2. why are we stuck with cars with 35 to 50 mpg's ?
3. these cars show what testing was performed from 1939 to 1979, so what are the oil companies testing now, cars with 500mpg ?

European-built cars are generally more fuel-efficient than American vehicles. While Europe has many higher efficiency diesel cars, European gasoline vehicles are on average also more efficient than gasoline-powered vehicles in the USA.

Most European vehicles cited in the CSI study run on diesel engines, which tend to achieve greater fuel efficiency than gas engines.

Selling those cars in the United States is difficult because of emission standards, --------

Another reason why many European models are not marketed in the United States is that labor unions object to having the big 3 import any new foreign built models regardless of fuel economy while laying off workers at home.

You cannot buy the Fusion hybrid in the UK..... yet

Even if you can't, you can buy others:



The "Supermini"
1

Ford

A reasonably modern European supermini and many mid-size cars, including station wagons, may manage motorway travel at 5 L/100 km (47 mpg US/56 mpg imp) or 6.5 L/100 km in city traffic (36 mpg US/43 mpg imp), with carbon dioxide emissions of around 140 g/km.

1

There are better ones though:

HONDA Insight Petrol Hybrid M5 MPG: 83.10
CITROEN C2 1.4 HDi Diesel M5 MPG: 68.90

If you want to see more.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. advances in technology going back to 1939, yet they are only coming to light now

No, you are completely wrong here. Garage enthusiasts have been tinkering around for over a half century with stuff like this. If you noticed, it was the gas and car companies that ran these little competitions.

Where is the big suppression you are talking about? I can guarantee you any suppression there is, is a much more mundane story. Want to find a conspiracy? Explain why GM used their god awful plastic interiors with ugly knobs for 15 years without updating. There is probably something juicy there.....



The cars you put in your OP, one is nothing special or nothing new, and the other is a test car that is not road worthy. Built only for one reason. It is not a realistic production car and it only had one purpose.

I can build you a cardboard box with wheels that runs of a lawnmower engine with great fuel economy... Does not = you driving it to work everyday.

2. why are we stuck with cars with 35 to 50 mpg's ?

We aren't as long as we buy the right car and don't drive like idiots. If you want better fuel economy a lot has to do with acceleration and speeding. As well as taking proper care of your car and having proper tire pressure.

3. these cars show what testing was performed from 1939 to 1979, so what are the oil companies testing now, cars with 500mpg ?

Well, considering that technology advances but they are still using the same fuels (excluding hybrids) then, there is only so much you can get out of the fuel.

Just so you don't get your hopes up expecting some car to do 1500mpg or something like that in the future.....

There won't be some miracle tech that is going to make a car run 1000% more efficient while using the same fuel. Physics/Chemistry/etc. likes to hamper things when they reach 100%.

Modern gasoline engines have an average efficiency of about 18% to 20% when used to power a car. In other words, of the total heat energy of gasoline, about 80% is ejected as heat from the exhaust, as mechanical sound energy, or consumed by the motor (friction, air turbulence, heat through the cylinder walls or cylinder head, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and electrical generator), and only about 20% of the fuel energy moves the vehicle.

And technically, the Shell-Opel car was not even in the same class as your average car because it vaporized its fuel before combustion.

reply to post by diddy1234

These 'tests' are performed in a lab on a rolling road. Some ECU management computers can detect when in a testing environment (like on a rolling road with the hand brake on) and then change the emission levels to achieve what us normal drives cannot.

This applies to the cars you posted in your OP as well.

Dear god man, it's the same thing.


You offer no proof of anything and now you have contradicted yourself, this may have well gone in the rant forum. Your position now is: MPG listing are only reliable when they fit in with the position you have on the issue.


To recap:

You actually posted a car that has no suspension, citing it as a major fuel saver, and then complain that Ford tweak their cars for their MPG tests with added extras. (Although I assume the Ford has a suspension).

you can vaporize fuel by preheating it and it being sucked through a screen into the intake, but the greatest way to increase fuel efficiency is through gear reduction. the more gears you have the less fuel is required.
also the shorter the stroke and diameter of the piston requires less fuel as well timing.

These automotive engineers have had 100 years or better to know exactly how not to give us quality in longevity and fuel efficiency, because there is an entire industry to support and the bottom line is sales and service.

but the cool thing is we can research and develop and modify our own vehicles and engines to achieve what we think is fair and efficient and not let ourselves be dragged into their limitations

Originally posted by simone50m
The Republicans have just successfully voted and insured that Big Oil keep getting welfare.

RON PAUL HOW COULD YOU side with Republicans. I thought you were a real American. I guess I was wrong.

It depends on what you consider a subside, Ron Paul considers them tax breaks, which isn't hypocritical of him since he has no problem with people or businesses not paying taxes. It is hypocritical of other republicans though, since they always complain about people not paying taxes, but they have no problem with corporations not paying taxes.

Thanks for the articles, OP.

Regarding the Opel, some of those modifications would be dangerous on a road-car, eliminating a car's cooling system would surely cause it to overheat (especially in traffic), and replacing a car's oils and fluids with low-viscosity versions would cripple a car's low-end torque. Still they're good examples of how tweaking a car's mechanics can push mileage to an extreme, but again, these were under test conditions and not real-world conditions.

The real damage to any efforts to produce high-mileage cars is, in many respects, caused by the American culture's love affair with heavy bloated gas-guzzlers. Instead of moving towards lighter, more efficient cars we got Hummers with 9 - 10 MPG and then gave tax breaks for buying them! It's all about driving a status symbol built like a tank.

Big Auto makers have long been in league with Big Oil to keep low-efficiency gas-guzzlers with planned obsolescence in the showrooms. Just watch "Who killed the electric car?"

I'm surprised VW is allowed to stay in business!

Diesel VW Goes 1,531 Miles On One Tank

Conway drove a standard production model Passat BlueMotion with a 1.6-liter TDI engine good for 105 horsepower. The car has a 77.25-liter (about 20.3 gallons) tank that ran dry just short of Calais, France, on the way home, according to the Sun. Conway spent 33 hours, 53 minutes behind the wheel and averaged 45 mph.

VW and the British press say he got 90 mpg, and since it’s Europe we’re assuming they’re talking Imperial gallons. If so, that’s 74.9 mpg U.S.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

Big Auto makers have long been in league with Big Oil to keep low-efficiency gas-guzzlers with planned obsolescence in the showrooms. Just watch "Who killed the electric car?"

"Who killed the electric car?" is for the most part, complete bunk. They started with lead-acid batteries and went on to NiMH. They had horrible charging times unless done with specific equipment that was not available to most of the people leasing and had a very low range. The range was reduced when using A/C, fan, headlights or anything else electric in the car.

We are just starting to see better battery technologies come out, and hence, better electric/hybrid cars as well.



While everyone complains about their being no electric cars, you can go out and buy one if you choose to:
www.teslamotors.com...

Have fun covering the cost of the high-tech systems of course. The li-ion batteries cost a fortune. And until they come out with cheaper battery technologies these cars are not realities.


And as far as big oil goes.... What about big gas, big coal, and other big industries that stand to produce all the energy that is needed to power electric cars? Or, are they not part of the club....

reply to post by daddio


nitrogen enriched gasoline -i wonder what brain dead moron that works for the oil giant came up with this fanciful farce of an idea.i would like to know how they came up with this brilliant scam of theirs . as it is just another way of fleecing us their customers.
the reason being that i work for a u.s. based food company and we use nitrogen to blanket our cooking oil so that it does not go rancid in the holding tanks .key word here is BLANKET ;meaning that it forms a layer above the oil to keep the air from getting to the oil.
being as that nitrogen is a colorless odorless GAS that floats above a liquid ,how in the hell did they combine the 2 ,the old gag of go to the stockroom and get me a bucket full of air to the new kid on the block,they must think we are as gullible as can be .

reply to post by picrat


Funny thing about liquids is that you can saturate them with gases. Of course, we know this everytime we drink a carbonated beverage. That's all co2 in there.

The findings from decades of on-track testing with the Ferrari Formula One race team are built into every drop of Shell V-Power gasoline. And now we have formulated Shell V-Power gasoline with the highest concentration of our NEW Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System, making it even better than before.

1


I don't know where Shell's data is on the nitrogen enrichment, but I will say that I would rather put that into my car before hooking up some "HHO" or likewise device peddled by crackpots.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by picrat

 

I don't know where Shell's data is on the nitrogen enrichment, but I will say that I would rather put that into my car before hooking up some "HHO" or likewise device peddled by crackpots.

And that type of thinking is exactly the reason why the average U.S. car only gets 24MPG. I doubt if Newton, da Vinci, Tesla or Einstein would have thought the same way.