Britain could have 'crushed Germany within three years' if RAF had not REJECTED inventor's plans

The Allies would have crushed Nazi Germany 'within three years' if the RAF had not rejected plans by a British inventor to build the world's first jet-powered fighter planes, according to new research.

Inventor Sir Frank Whittle was told his designs for a 500mph jet were 'totally unrealistic' and RAF chiefs refused to invest a penny in their development.

It meant the RAF engineer was forced to circulate his patent internationally in the hope of finding a private investor.

But the document fell into enemy hands and was used as the blueprint for Germany's own jet development programme.

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www.dailymail.co.uk...

I have looked everywhere and have not been able to find this on ATS.

reply to post by Viking9019


i would imagine in a real world that his ideas didn't fit the plans of others , Short wars arn't really profitable , nor do they reduce populations quick enough. ..

history yanks my goat :/

rambox

A very interesting article.

Goes to show you what we know and what was can be two different things.

Just like Microsofts history with IBM. IBM passed on windows and look what happened.

Overview again. If Hitler would have continued with his bombing of British airfields in the early part of the Battle of Britain this Island would have been defenceless. We all speak of the Illuminati and other such things on here. Well many, including the British royal family were fascist and or Hitler supporters in the 30's.
The Papacy runs it all and to the bedevilment of the European Enlightenment over two horrific World Wars, in order to excite the religious hysteria we see now means no surprise over the corruption of tactics or technology to achieve their aims.

Interesting find, just the kind of technology the Nazi's were game for, not being keen on tech with jewish connections (anyway other topic entirely).

Made me think of the tetraethyl transactions of 38/39. Tetraethyl lead was an additive used in aviation gasoline and basically Goering's flyboys couldn't leave the ground without it. Thank's to Walter Teagle the chairman of Standard Oil of New Jersey (owned by Rockefeller's Chase Bank), he was also a director of American I.G. Chem. Corp. (itself a subsidiarie of I.G.Farben, oh it's like some big happy war-machine country club).

Anyhoo, Teagle arranged the 'borrowing' of 500 tons of the stuff to I.G.Farben in 38, the company president no less travelled to london to get it off a company called Ethyl, even returning the following year to get another $15 million worth.

Result? Goering was ready to blitz london.

Teagle even helped the Japanese get some tetraethyl, what a guy, so commited to helping his friends.

reply to post by goldentorch


True about the royals, memory hazy on this but there was a royal called Charles who went Nazi side with his chums when it kicked off, signed up and played no minor part. Scared the cake out of Hitler as well this chap, only heard scraps, but it's another of those little known threads of WW2.

reply to post by Viking9019


The Luftwaffe had the ME 262 before the allies had their own fighter jet. But Goering wasnt able to turn the tide.
The P-51 even achieved victory over the ME 262 in some cases, because the turn radius was minor and had an exellent performance also.

reply to post by Karmayogi11


The Nazis even had a prototype Junkers-390, with six-engines no less! One even flew non-stop for 32 hours to within miles of NYC to get some photos.

Not only did the Germans have jet fighters, they had the Arado twin jet bomber that was untouchable by any Allied fighter of the day.

reply to post by Viking9019


I'm not so certain Jet Fighter = Win.

It certainly didn't for Germany. Germany had absolute air superiority for a long period of time. Even if they had built the 262 earlier and in larger numbers, their poor strategic implements would have still cost them the war. Similarly - I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference for Britain. Britain's Spitfire was a hugely successful fighter against the 109.

The key to the successful defense of Britain was not air superiority, however. The early warning radar systems were completely overlooked in their importance by the Germans (who, apparently, believed the British were just flat-out psychic since Britain's fighters were always in their face every time they came flying across the channel, and Germany seemed to accept it as a fact of life). This was further exacerbated as Germany spent most of its time bombing empty airfields (the British disguised their airfields in farmland, country roads/hedges, etc - pretty damned clever).

Much of the German apathy can be attributed to double-agents active within the Nazi regime. German military leaders believed Britain's aircraft production was merely a fraction of what it actually was.

Germany could have easily crushed Britain if they had actually decided to commit to an invasion. For whatever reasons - overconfidence on behalf of Germany... perhaps a dream of just getting Britain to surrender rather than commit to an invasion... no one can be quite sure (though it is known that Hitler never expected fight Britain - or really wanted to, for that matter) - but Germany never did invade, and lost their chance.

Really - to say that a jet fighter would have made Britain end the war much quicker is not much different than Hitler's belief projects like the V-2, Me 262, and other "Wonder Weapons" held the key to winning his wars.

Could¨ve, would've, should've. Hindsight at best. How they recon that it would've been succesfull in the first place? How they think that air dominance would've reduced the ground war in to 3 years then? It might have helped a little but that's it imho. Jets of that age weren't that good to begin with.

That;s some crazy stuff. It drive's me angry as ducks to know my great-granddad died in that war in the last few years he was killed and they could have ended it in 3 years (possibly). Countless killed on Omagh beach and the other landings, and this one guy wasn't listened to? Just imagine what other tech has been rejected and will pop up sometime later.

reply to post by Eocrow
Dim ond os yw'n ffaith, fy ffrind.

reply to post by Viking9019
But the real advantage was to be faster, ie, sound barrier. As Spitfires reached that speed they became uncontrollable, causing many to nosedive. To have to contend with Jet engine speeds and not lose control the aircraft had to have an "Adjustable Aft wing" or tail elevator, also adjustable wing or "Swing wings" would have helped. (Hindsight is a wonderful thing!)
Whittle had multiple nervous breakdowns due to stressfull deadlines&work commitments. But had a patent taken out as early 1930 for the "Blower" or afterburner, using exhaust gases for propulsion (just like a modern day turbo on a car) and Turboprops were used before 1945.
Whitles Idea needed the backing of certain people, some of who dismissed it as "Too simple to work" which no doubt aided his breakdowns.
But, sadly, the war would have been won no sooner with the Jet engine due to the lack of understanding of aerodynamics.
Even F1 cars have adjustable wing, so much so that one could drive through the Monaco tunnel upside down due to the "upside down" wing causing downforce rather than lift.
It wasn't yet the "jet age" in '43

If the British had the jet fighters it would not have stopped the war.

Jet fighters burn a lot of fuel and had a short range. In those days they would have been real good for defence but not for long range attacks across the channel into Germany.

Yes the jet fighters might have helped the British during the battle of Briton but would not have had the range to be used over Germany in any numbers.

The Germans would have shot down the jets when they ran short of fuel in any attack on Germany.

In the US and British bombing of Germany speed was never the problem.
It was all about range and bomb load.

And i know of no raid over the UK by the Germans with there jets because they did not have the range to be useful.

Originally posted by funbox
reply to post by Viking9019

 

i would imagine in a real world that his ideas didn't fit the plans of others , Short wars arn't really profitable , nor do they reduce populations quick enough. ..

history yanks my goat :/

rambox

It was in Britains interest to win the war as quickly as possible. The war absolutely destroyed Britains economy and put us into debt with the USA for he next 60 years. It wrecked Britains standing in the world, despite being on the winning side and modern revisionism even tends to portray Britain as a junior partner in the war effort behind the USA, rather than the equal partner ( in terms of forces, manpower, commitments etc) it really was.

In 1931-36 there was no inkling there might be a war, between 1936-39, those in power with fresh memories of the horrors of WW1 were absolutely determined to avoid any war, almost at any cost, so your statement doesn't stack up to reality.

reply to post by waynos


hmm 60 million dead doesn't stack up to reality ether. i mean 60 million dead people for what? a Jewish state?
how many border changed dramtically after the war? how many coffers were filled?

funbox

reply to post by funbox




what is the relevance of your last post to the discussion? You inferred that Whittles genius somehow went against British plans for a long war to build up the coffers and cull the population. Any examination of the facts quickly shows how that is a flawed position.

It is worth pointing out that in 1931 the RAF was just preparing to accept the firs 200mph fighter, the Hawker Fury, into service.

At this time biplanes were still the order of the day with tubular structures and fabric skins. Even the monoplane Hawker Hurricane, which didn't reach service until 1937, was built this way and the monocoque stressed skin Spitfire was regarded as exceptionally risky and the problems encountered in producing it brought the Spitfire perilously close to complete cancellation several times during 1938-40.

Any idea that a serviceable jet fighter might be produced in this timeframe is pure fantasy. Airframe technology was nowhere near ready.

Contrary to the impression given in the article, Ohain in Germany faced the same official disinterest and negativity that Whittle did. This largely contributed to the very lengthy development time of the Me 262.

Yes Germany had Briton completely on the ropes but thankfully Hitler was in charge and turned what could have been German domination over Briton into an opportunity for them to rebound back.

Briton's airforce was nearly crushed but upon a successful bombing mission by Briton into Germany he turned the German airforce onto civilian targets instead of maintaining the assult on specific Raf targets.

Also holding back the German troops at Dunkirk and allowing the British army to escape to England was a huge mistake as all those soldiers returned to war.

Briton got very lucky as they were very close to being out of the war for a couple of years.