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Russia unveils plans for "invincible" ICBM

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posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Russia could have or is presently working on the same or similar type of "Hypersonic ICBM" that the US has or is now working on.

The info on the project is a bit sketchy at best.


And yet you apparently know that they're working on the same thing as the US.



reply to post by bsbray11
 


Yeah I said


Russia "could" have or is presently working on the same or similar type of "Hypersonic ICBM" that the US has or is now working on.

The info on the project is a bit sketchy at best.


I was referring to the info being sketchy at best regarding what is available on the US project. Some of us do have an interest in this stuff outside of ATS.


aerospace daily and defense report


Apr 26, 2007

Michael Bruno/Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

Rebuffed by Congress last year over a proposal to convert submarine-based nuclear ballistic missiles into conventional strike platforms, the U.S. Air Force now is pushing for a so-called Conventional Strike Missile (CSM) that would be based on land and follow a different flight path than intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), an officer said April 25.

The CSM is eyed for rollout by about 2014, according to Maj. Gregory Jones, chief of the spacelift requirements branch. The program would use existing commercial or excess military rocket motors for a medium-lift ballistic missile that deploys a hypersonic glide warhead.




posted on May, 18 2011 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Yeah, could be the same project, but it doesn't make much difference. I'm sure both Russia and the US have all kinds of classified weapons no one else knows about, including their opposing nation. Only the insane would want to start a war between the US and Russia, or the US and China either.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 03:31 AM
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Topol-Ms are apparently already deployed with strong countermeasures against anything the US could use to shoot them down with... ie, flares, laser shielding, in-flight maneuverability, etc. The problem with Topols was that you had to sacrifice countermeasures for more MIRVs per missile.

Since Russia is claiming much advancement in a Topol replacement (RS-24 Yars), I guess they must have already finalized their Bulava systems (SLBM version of the Topol M).

One more thing, about missile interceptors in Europe... I've been thinking about the "Norway Spiral" that the Russians claimed was a missile test. I don't know what it was, but just from looking at it I bet its large and disruptive diameter could probably be used to intercept anything in the air (except maybe Western MIRVs already falling from orbit). It seems like a typical Russian "big" solution, unlike American "surgical" weapons like kinetic interceptor missiles.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by maloy
 



Any talk of a massive conflict like this is irrelevant however - because it is not going to take place, and if it does then what is "on paper" will cease to matter.

Yeah because according to Russian's nuclear doctrine, battlefield nukes would be used if they fought against precision weapons, which NATO has.


I haven't heard of 20 ton bunker busters in current US inventory.

Well they exist. It's called the MOP and it only fits on a B-2. The B-2 can actually carry two of them. And this is just the ``conventional`` stuff... not nuclear bunker busters.


You have to consider that these bombs can only be delivered by a bomber not an inter-continental missile, which means that a bomber would need to penetrate deep into Russian airspace. Even B-2's can likely be detected by the newest Russian radars and SAM systems.

Indeed. Russian's SAM systems are quite awesome.


Plus, if a first strike is incoming, Russia would know about it at several minutes ahead of time thanks to their radars

Well I hope that they upgraded their nuclear warning missile system since 1995... because back then, they didn't know what was coming at them (which it wasn't) and nearly started WW3.

On January 25, 1995, the Russian early warning radar’s detected an unexpected missile launch near Spitzbergen. The estimated flight time to Moscow was 5 minutes. The Russian President, the Defense Minister and the Chief of Staff were informed. The early warning and the control and command center switched to combat mode. Within 5 minutes, the radar’s determined that the missile's impact would be outside the Russian borders.



I never heard of airplane-launched ICBM interceptor missiles.

They do exist. Probably not in great numbers right now, but they will be in the future.

Radar guidance is the critical in intercepting ICBM's, and fighter jets cannot accomadate radars powerful enough.

Except the radars are on the ground and they transmit the info to the plane/missile in the air...


Why would china ever invade russia?
If anything it looks like they are in bed together...

That can change pretty fast. And military capabilities are something that takes long to change. China has had their eyes on Siberia for a while now. And once the great ``enemy``... America, falls due to economic collapse, then it'll be a race between Russia-China-India for the top. And that's when the game changes.

And if we want to talk about great first strike weapons... The Rods Of God would be a great start.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Yeah, could be the same project, but it doesn't make much difference. I'm sure both Russia and the US have all kinds of classified weapons no one else knows about, including their opposing nation. Only the insane would want to start a war between the US and Russia, or the US and China either.



For the most part we are discussing opposing weapon systems/platforms and running through possible various scenarios. I haven't read anywhere in this thread yet where anybody has Advocated for a real world conflict.


It's been a "What if..."



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
For the most part we are discussing opposing weapon systems/platforms and running through possible various scenarios. I haven't read anywhere in this thread yet where anybody has Advocated for a real world conflict



That's like me sharpening a knife in case my neighbor breaks in, or in case I break into his house, but it's just a "what if."


Who do you really think is more likely to bully the other country into an aggressive stand-off: Russia? or the US, who has already invaded several of Russia's neighbors to the South with tanks, bombers, and foot soldiers, and is still itching to invade more (Pakistan, Syria, etc.)?


I'll leave that as an open question to everyone because I already know you'll just be posting more propaganda on behalf of Uncle Sam and the DoD.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowAngel85
Yeah, without their nuclear depot, everybody would even more laugh about them as it's already the case. Russia hasn't been important in the last 20 years but they still act like the big bad bully from High School
I doubt they could develop anything with their tiny military budget - even the UK has a bigger military budget today.

Besides, after such an announcement, we can be sure, that the USA already are trying to develope a counter-weapon.


I think that nobody should ever underestimate the others.
You never know...



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Tens or perhaps even a hundred successful precision strikes in one part of the world will not necessarily cause the world as we know it to end. There is no concensus on what the impact on the Earth's atmosphere and environment would be. Additionally, the newest nuclear weapons are cleaner than the warheads that were continuously tested in 50's and 60's.



edit on 17-5-2011 by maloy because: (no reason given)


I think that we have to be a little more open minded about radiation, and how disasterous it can be.
Take a look at Fukoshima. Can you imagine if the amount was as much as the tens or one hundred nuclear war heads with precision strikes be less destructive to the planet?

What do you mean that the newest nuclear weapons are cleaner?
Are they ECO friendly and emit fewer carbon emissions?



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Lighterside
 


My spiritual density forbids me to comment w/o positive input but, really can better things be built instead of kill weapons. And to release this seems like fear propaganda between major forces abroad. So I guess its directed at un no some other super power as deterent. Smh @ it though. I still prefer STARZ STARz STArz
But 1 must -LOVE LOVE LOVE- to overcome so 1 tries, still makes no sense the weapons.

PEACE

edit on 5/18/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by mikepopy
What do you mean that the newest nuclear weapons are cleaner?
Are they ECO friendly and emit fewer carbon emissions?


"Clean" means they generate considerably less radiation relative to their yield compared to the older nuclear weapons. This means that much of the energy is due to fusion as opposed to fission, using lead tamper in the design instead of a uranium-238 fusion tamper.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yeah because according to Russian's nuclear doctrine, battlefield nukes would be used if they fought against precision weapons, which NATO has.


This is with understanding that Russian territory would be attacked first in that case. And I do not see anything wrong with that in such instance. No doubt the US and other nuclear powers (especially Israel) also have provisions to use nuclear first if they are under a massive conventional attack which jeopardizes their survival.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well they exist. It's called the MOP and it only fits on a B-2. The B-2 can actually carry two of them. And this is just the ``conventional`` stuff... not nuclear bunker busters.



US has a very limited number of MOPs, and I believe they are still below 20-tons. As I said, the B-2 are unlikely to penetrate deep into Russia in case of a conflict. Fitting them on any missiles is pretty much impossible with the current missile and ICBM technology.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well I hope that they upgraded their nuclear warning missile system since 1995... because back then, they didn't know what was coming at them (which it wasn't) and nearly started WW3.


That incident was heavily investigated and the problems should have been long mitigated. All such systems give "false positives" from time to time, but in case of a real attack multiple systems from different regions would be reporting the same thing. I am sure new computers and algorithms can calculated the destination much quicker and more precisely too.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Except the radars are on the ground and they transmit the info to the plane/missile in the air...


While that is possible in theory, it is still a very complex operation. If the intercepting jets are in the US, it means the ICBM is near the end of its trajectory and approaching terminal velocity, where an intercept is more difficult. And the jets would need to be ready to go and armed with missiles in minutes if not seconds. Anyway I never heard of this technology, but it would not surprise me if it is in development.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
China has had their eyes on Siberia for a while now. And once the great ``enemy``... America, falls due to economic collapse, then it'll be a race between Russia-China-India for the top. And that's when the game changes.


True. Large powers like Russia and China can never be true allies or completely trust each other, especially since they share a border. There are too many geopolitical, economic, and social friction points that may cause a serious difference between the two to develop quickly.

Ever since the Sino-Soviet split Russia has regarded China as a potential political and military threat. But until not too long ago, China did not really pose a serious military risk.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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One day this worn out old paradigm will be gone and if there is any competition between nations, instead of boasting about how much mass murder and destruction each country is capable of, it will be about how much abundance and health their respective citizens live in,



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


And in this Utopia of yours that will one day grace the international arena, will there be unicorns and pink flying elephants too? Maybe they can replace the tanks and the fighter jets?



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by wcitizen
 


And in this Utopia of yours that will one day grace the international arena, will there be unicorns and pink flying elephants too? Maybe they can replace the tanks and the fighter jets?


Are you so steeped in the current matrix that you believe there is no other way of running things on this planet?



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
Russia could have or is presently working on the same or similar type of "Hypersonic ICBM" that the US has or is now working on.

The info on the project is a bit sketchy at best.


A hypersonic ICBM with plasma shielding, and defensive/offensive capabilities beyond the warheads.

The Russians are getting very paranoid, and anxious as their plans are falling apart.

Vlad's paranoia is showing.




posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
Are you so steeped in the current matrix that you believe there is no other way of running things on this planet?


Not so much steeped, as pragmatically predisposed towards cynicism. Is there another way? Yes. Can it be achieved? Not without exterminating the majority of human population of earth. It is not that this would be terribly unfortunate, but it would be perceived as somewhat inhumane.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


It's been a "What if..."


That could quickly become a not "what if" but when!

Secret US unmanned military space missions in recent times has them more than edgy, and for good reason.

The Russians are much farther along in the development of defensive plasma shielding for their next gen ICBMs than they want the public to believe..... They are clearly opting for offensive advantage, not retaliatory, or defensive.

Still, we have the offensive advantage, because we could wipe out Russia, and none of their retaliatory weapons would reach any desired targets, in fact few would ever get beyond the initial launch sequences, including all of their submarine missiles.

So, perhaps their paranoia, from their perspective is justified...

Where are all of those hundreds of billions in secret US defense dollars going?



The cold war was nothing compared to what is quietly going on now.
edit on 18-5-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Ukraine seeks talks with Romania, US on missile shield

Ukraine is seeking consultations with Bucharest and Washington on the proposed deployment of US missile interceptors in Romania, Foreign Minister Kostyantyn Gryshchenko said Wednesday.

"In the context of the steps taken to consolidate security, we think that the aim should be to reinforce security of Europe as a whole and to take into account all political aspects of this issue," Gryshchenko told a press conference in Bucharest.

"We are interested in having consultations with both our Romanian and our American partners," he added.

Ukraine shares a 650-kilometre (300-mile) border with Romania.

Bucharest and Washington two weeks ago concluded talks on the deployment of 24 missile interceptors in a former airbase in southern Romania, Deveselu.

They insisted they would be part of a purely defensive system.

Missiles interceptors in Ukraine would piss off Russia A LOT... A HELL LOT. With interceptors in Ukraine, you can eventually take out the western Russian ICBMs at the beginning of their flight, which is when they are the most vulnerable. Since they don't have decoys and have a big heat (boosters) signature.

Right now, the SM-3 anti-missile missile has a 500km maximum range, but the SM-2 had a 190km maximum range... so what will the SM-4 maximum range be? 700-1000km? Hell with that kind of range in Ukraine, most of western Russia's missile will be under threat.

This whole business is getting out of control and we'll be lucky to live throught it.


Insanity I tell ya.
edit on 18-5-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


These missile defenses are meant to prevent Russia from being able to threaten nations into reconstituting the Soviet Union.

It has nothing to do with the defenses the US already has, that the Russians see only as a first strike, offensive capability for the USA, against Russia.

In reality, its true, we could annihilate them, and they wouldn't have a chance to defend themselves... And what is worse, they know this, and it's driving them over the edge of sanity.

Obama needs to spend more time with his Russian counterpart, talk of cooperation, missile reductions, sign some more fake agreements... it usually calms them down for a while.




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by mikepopy
What do you mean that the newest nuclear weapons are cleaner?
Are they ECO friendly and emit fewer carbon emissions?


"Clean" means they generate considerably less radiation relative to their yield compared to the older nuclear weapons. This means that much of the energy is due to fusion as opposed to fission, using lead tamper in the design instead of a uranium-238 fusion tamper.


Ok I didnt know that.
So by that way they can hit their target without affecting the rest of the world that much.







 
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