Birthers: We Were Right. The BC is a FRAUD!!! Obama Lovers: Debunk THIS!

Originally posted by roadtoad
So you debunkers say that the facts say Obama was born in Hawaii. Then the white house posts the 'facts', namely the birth certificate. And I say, that it would seem nice if they would at least put a raised seal on it.

Obama’s long form certificate has a seal.

Now I’ll wait while you move the goal posts again.

That's the same lie the last guy just told.
What you need is not some goal posts,
what you need is a higher vacant vulture cave,
so you can take your lies higher up into the stratosphere.

Originally posted by roadtoad
so you can take your lies higher up into the stratosphere.

I gave you links to the report and pictures of a White House correspondent, and links to the pictures with the seal visible, and what have you presented to refute that? Your claim that it’s a lie?

You want so badly to believe that Obama wasn’t born in the United States that you believe every single debunked lie the WND puts out, and when you get called on the nonsense you believe you accuse others of being liars.

You believe a delusion. Deal with it.

Originally posted by aptness
/pg21#pid11380767]has a seal[/url].

Now I’ll wait while you move the goal posts again.

That seal doesn't matter, for the fact it's not his original Birth Certificate. They can make a computer generated Birth Certificate on toilet paper and put a seal on it. Who's to say that wasn't tampered with too? Anyone could replicate this stuff, sorry were not going to trust shady State officials.

Admit it, Obama is from Kenya... his family knows this, why not you?

Kenyannomics has failed!

Originally posted by aptness
/pg21#pid11380767]has a seal[/url].

Now I’ll wait while you move the goal posts again.

Originally posted by imitator
Anyone could replicate this stuff, sorry were not going to trust shady State officials.

Consider the goal posts moved. Gotta love these accusations that don't require any proof - just a willing mind...yawn.

Originally posted by imitator
Anyone could replicate this stuff,

Sounds good. Do it.

Originally posted by cybertroy
I had a friend call me a birther yesterday. Something like, "Don't tell me you're one of those birthers." I'm like, what? I wasn't aware that there was a label needed? I'm just looking for truth. Birther is a convenient way to classify people along with the "conspiracy nuts." So, we can be boxed into a class of things, that people think are stupid. Easier to ridicule by those mainstream media jackasses. That way, we can't be examined for anything deeper than a label. Nevermind, that we actually are smart and observant people, you know, because we are "birthers" now, and birthers are idiots. The quest continues.

Troy

So why do I keep asking what is negative about the term "birther" to get no answers? "Conspiracy Nut" has an obvious negative connotation. I would really like to understand what is negative about this term and how you would refer to a group of people that all believe Obama was not born in Hawaii without writing all that out each and every time?

And one other thing.

Originally posted by roadtoad
In the first place, I am a birther, and make not apologys.

Do not be surprised if people do not stop using it because some people do not like it but are not really sure why.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Antiquated1

 

I posted to Road and not directed at you to make sure that what I posted was understood and do back that in pdf no seal can be seen.

No hostility against you, we're cool!

I apologize if there was any confusion but your post was to me and no one mentioned the PDF but you. Road said it would have been nice of them to put a raised seal on the certificate. There is one. You can see it in the photographs as well. I was asking him how he expected them to put a raised seal on a digital image. I hope we all understand each other now and I still hope I get an answer to that.

Originally posted by roadtoad
That's the same lie the last guy just told.
What you need is not some goal posts,
what you need is a higher vacant vulture cave,
so you can take your lies higher up into the stratosphere.

In all seriousness, how can you post stuff like this and not expect to be damaging your movement? You were just shown proof that you were wrong and instead of presenting an argument, debunking it, or even acknowledging it, you just pretended that did not happen. Your post is a perfect example of the kind of thing that took me from thinking birthers had a really good case to knowing that birthers are just trying to convince themselves.

I am sorry if you take that as an insult but you were given proof. It is not like Aptness just said "nu uh."

Originally posted by ontarff
I respect your "opinion". I could argue all of your points but I am not going to waste my time. My arguments stand for critical thinkers to consider.You have not provided a better solution. Ignorance is bliss...

Can you? I was on the fence as recently as a few days ago. Posts like the one you replied to are the ones that really gave me the information I needed to help me make up my mind. If you can actually refute it all, I might get back on the fence. I have to tell you now that I have a really hard time putting faith in someone who says they could do anything but will not. Going out of their way to say they can do what they will not do never seems sincere. But I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and if you can actually refute those points, you could easily gain my confidence that you know more about what you are talking about than the people you are responding to.

I have noticed that the people saying Obama was born in Hawaii have one story. The people saying he was not born in Hawaii

Originally posted by imitator
That seal doesn't matter

do not have the same stories at all. That says a lot. Perhaps it should not but it does.

Originally posted by imitator


That seal doesn't matter

If you're a US citizen (or thought you were), then likely, yours doesn't matter either, and please find your country of origin and go to it, thank you.

Originally posted by imitator
Kenyannomics has failed!

I think it's so cute how prepubescent mindsets come up with little terms du jour, and others who follow "I'm a righty or lefty and will do anything my party line tells me" forums see them and regurgitate them as though they have political clout

Kenyannomics hahahahaha

The kind of anomalies found on the latest BC can be caused by the scanner....probably true.
The kind of anomalies found on the latest BC can be caused by an attempt to forge the document....also probably true.

I don't see how anyone can be take a stand and be absolutely sure that their opinion is correct.

Obama caused this whole problem. If he had the long form he should have released it right from the start instead of the short form. The story has changed so many times I don't know what to believe. Maybe that is by design.

Originally posted by Sparky63

Obama caused this whole problem.

In a way you're right.

He didn't CAUSE the problem, he just took it for granted, that, like other presidents before him, having proven his legitimacy to the governing authorities before him and above him of his Citizenship was enough. That he would never have to prove that same legitimacy to every OTHER citizen on a national scale.

Where he DID perpetuate the problem was in not automatically stating "this is ridiculous, here it is look!!" and simply shut everyone up, and nipping it in the bud. Perhaps that was a serious miscalculation by him too.... not realizing the legs this thing would grow. Personally, I would have made the same error.

I disagree. I believe that Obama knew right from the start that his birth place and whether of not he was a "Natural Born" citizen was going to be an issue. I have no delusions that any of this took him by surprise. It was the Clintons after all, who brought the issue up during the campaign.
I do think that Obama had hoped his mainstream media lapdogs would squash all questions about it though. They did their best to heap scorn and ridicule on those that insisted that this issue be investigated thoroughly.
Whether is was justified, remains to be seen.
Obama played this out well though...he forced most his political opponents to take a stand. If they questions his birth, they would be labeled a "birther" and fair game for the MSM to disparage and mock. If they went on record stating that they believed Obama to be born in Hawaii, then they were in effect adding credibility to Obama's qualifications.

Well played I think.

Originally posted by Sparky63
I disagree. I believe that Obama knew right from the start that his birth and whether of not he was a "Natural Born" citizen was going to be an issue. I have no delusions that any of this took him by surprise. It was the Clintons after all, who brought the issue up during the campaign.
I do think that Obama had hoped his mainstream media lapdogs would squash all questions about it though. They did their best to heap scorn and ridicule on those that insisted that this issue be investigated thoroughly.
Whether is was justified, remains to be seen.
Obama played this out well though...he forced most his political opponents to take a stand. If they questions his birth, they would be labeled a "birther" and fair game for the MSM to disparage and mock. If they went on record stating that they believed Obama to be born in Hawaii, then they were in effect adding credibility to Obama's qualifications.

Well played I think.

edit on 5/24/2011 by Sparky63 because: added comment

I could see where, if someone were predisposed to playing little mind games with the US Presidency, that what you say may have some merit. But in this case, where is the residual gain by doing this other than to stick your tongue out and call the dissenters names? You're not forcing your political opponents to take a STAND, you would be forcing them to resign to the Presidency being a fallacy and easily attained by fraudsters. There is not a politician on the PLANET that would allude to that, on either side of the partisan fence.

There is nothing well played about THAT, in fact were what you say to be true, it would severely defame his character. No, Obama is clearly in damage control and reactionary mode.

If there is one thing this president and the ones who preceded have proved, it is that they are not above playing mind games with their opponents and the American public. He gave the birthers enough rope to hang themselves. They demanded his long form for years and Obama released it right when it would benefit him the most. Obama played his "Trump" card right on time.

Originally posted by alphabetaone...you would be forcing them to resign to the Presidency being a fallacy and easily attained by fraudsters. There is not a politician on the PLANET that would allude to that, on either side of the partisan fence.

You evidently have a much higher opinion of politicians that I do. When it comes to morals and principles, politicians rank lower than used care salesmen in my opinion. No offense to used car salesmen intended.
It is clear to me that a politicians first concern is to get reelected. The list of corrupt politicians, even in recent history, embroiled in fraud and scandals is proof of that.

I have no doubt that there are exceptions to the rule....but they are few and far between.

I absolutely disagree. Obama didn’t create the problem nor did he take it for granted. The ones that created the ‘problem’ are those that benefit from questioning the legitimacy of this President, whether for financial, political or other gain.

Obama, in fact, did everything correctly. Before the election he publicly disclosed his birth certificate — something no previous candidate ever did, and the other 2008 presidential candidate didn’t.

He then proceed to ignore the crazies for years because they are pathetic and irrelevant. When Trump brought this non-issue to the mainstream again, Obama released his long form birth certificate and appropriately owned and mocked Trump and every nut like him for believing that crap.

He could have waited and released the long form birth certificate closer to the election and he’d probably would have made bigger political gains, because until November 2012 some part of the American people, which have the attention span of 4 year olds, will forget he even released it.

reply to post by Sparky63


I don't have a higher opinion of politicians, it simply would be political suicide to play such meaningless child games with no political gain associated with it.

Uggghh, 9/11 arguments all over again. There are clearly things wrong with the PDF birth certificate. I think it's a bit beyond calling it an error in the software.

I think that some people think that they can insult people long enough and insist long enough, then the PDF becomes legitimate. That doesn't work for people who can see what is right in front of them. We cannot help that close inspection of the document raises questions. Any clear headed individual could spot these things.

All things considered, there are still bigger issues going on, than the birth certificate, that we need to address. We need people in office who aren't dragging our economy into the crapper. So, regardless of where Obama is from, is he benefiting us or is he dragging us down like presidents before him?

Troy