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Report: Doctors Refusing to Treat Overweight Patients

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Wow. Lots of ugly and intolerant speak in this thread.

"Lardo"
"Fatty"

No wonder our children suffer from incessant bullying. Look at how the adults act.

Despicable. Absolutely despicable and I am ashamed.



Me too - and congrats on your weight loss.
Quite frankly I often wonder if the US is setting up their propaganda teams to come out in threads like these.
I don't want to believe that so many people can be so hard hearted and worried about 'the insurance pool.'

The highschool kids still play football, and the cheerleaders still cheer - and all those things are very dangerous, and yet they choose to do so. I have yet to see one person really jump on hating athletes for the health care costs they bring 'to the insurance pool' or their utilization of sports medicine.




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


give me a break. You can't go 1/2 day without being bombarded with weight information in this society. magazines, weight loss products, fat content in foods, food lables, exercise programs.

now if the poor folks were shut in their homes reading books and not watching tv or listening to the radio all day, never went to a grocery store and looked at the advertising, never read a popular cultural magazine, never looked at a checkout magazine stand, I might have sympathy for them. I don't think thats the case however. I did some consulting in the fast food industry and fully 75% of the profits come from 15% of the customers who are called "heavy users" no pun intended. Nobody is putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to eat that rubbish.

To suggest that poor people are that ignorant is offensive and foolish.

As far as the "final solution" bit, that is offensive as well, although I do believe that people who can not afford to care for a child have no business having one and I am certainly not under any obligation to pay for their poor life choices. Let them get a job, get in a position to afford to have children and let them have all of the kids they can support.
edit on 17-5-2011 by dolphinfan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan


As far as the "final solution" bit, that is offensive as well, although I do believe that people who can not afford to care for a child have no business having one and I am certainly not under any obligation to pay for their poor life choices. Let them get a job, get in a position to afford to have children and let them have all of the kids they can support.
edit on 17-5-2011 by dolphinfan because: (no reason given)


So are you implying that all overweight people do not work or have jobs?

I really am not following your logic, but I am trying. What exactly are you thinking that someone else's obesity will cause you to lose?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Problems with your viewpoint:

the average home has both parents working. When you get home you want to get supper done and over with. You cannot store fresh veggies and fruits for long, and if you cannot make it to the store every 2-3 days your grocery options tend to be more along the lines of pasta and other dry goods, and meats and other frozen goods. Fresh goods are not on your diet.

In my home I cook. I do it because i am better at it. But neither of us has the "energy" to do so. 50-60 hour workweeks, combined with all the other parental duties....healthy cooking takes effort that there is little time left for.

Obesity has risen as the middle class has shrunk. I don't think it is accidental.

RE: poor people being stupid...that isn't what i am saying. I am saying that poor people are less educated. I used to run a hotel, and my housekeepers made minimum wage. They had lots of drama, too. I would tell the head housekeeper to calm down and deal with it, because people don't earn minimum wage for being well adjusted people. And it is true. You don't accept 7.25 an hour when you can do better.

Poor people are poor for a reason. Some make bad choices, some are trapped, some are simple. A story i have shared before:

In college i would donate plasma for extra cash. Before you could donate (twice weekly) you had to get your vitals taken. If your vitals were out of whack, you couldn't donate that day.

A guy who was mentally retarded came in one day to donate. His BP was too high, so he was denied. He began to cry and explain he was broke and had no way to eat that day. The nurse tried to counsel him on eating properly to control BP. His response has stuck with me, in my heart, for over 20 years:

"I know i am supposed to eat salads and stuff. But i can't afford it. Yesterday i had a pack of hot dogs for supper. They only cost 85 cents, and all i had to eat with was a dollar. What are my choices?"

You speak in accusatory absolutes. If it offends you that I called you Mengele, i am sorry. I was only highlighting that your statement about fat people not having kids was, well...heinous and ignorant. You presume that fat people not only know better, but also know a path out of their predicament.

And you presume wrong.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by hadriana
 


I am referring to the countless posts on this board and several on this thread who state that poor people don't know how not to get fat, which I think is complete nonsense and casts a level of ignorance on poor people which is offensive. Poor people allow themselves to get fat, the same way rich people allow themselves to get fat.

As far as obese people having children, I certainly support their right in having them, but think that doctors have the right to refuse to treat them. I also think that should an obese person choose to have a child and suffer from a pregnancy complication due to that obesity or bears a child with a birth defect due to that obesity then they should pay for that out of a higher cost/higher risk insurance pool, or out of their own funds. Insurance rates for healthy people should not be inflated to cover the costs associated with practicing an unhealthy lifestyle, regardless of what that lifestyle is.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


But your post seemed almost entirely centered around your choice.

You chose not to question or research what was being put into your body

You chose to get more for your money rather than practice portion control

You chose to continue eating after you stopped working out 6 hours a day

You say you topped out at 450 pounds...I'm sure there were several increments of that when you must have thought to yourself, "I'm getting a little big, I wonder why?"


If you are not or have never been fat, shut up. You have nothing to say that has any meaning.


Actually, the fact that we have spent the time and effort to ensure that we treat our bodies correctly would seem to highlight that perhaps you should be asking others for help. You initially say "If only someone had told me" and then end with "Shut up and don't say anything." - it's just confusing.

ETA: I don't believe people hate fat people. They hate "fat" because somewhere, even if you are completely ignorant of any kind of nutritional knowledge, you know that your body is not in a natural state. Ask anyone and they will tell you that their is a difference between someone who is genetically over-weight and someone who is obese because of diet, it is clear as day in the way that the weight is distributed over the body.

The problem is that like most "food addicts" that our consumer and snack driven society has created, obese typically refuse to acknowledge their addiction and do something about it - and by comparison to other diseases obesity is one that's curable and you'll feel amazing kicking it to the curb!
edit on 17-5-2011 by Avenginggecko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


So anyone with any risk at all,should pay for that particular risk to their health, thus keeping the costs down in the insurance pool?

So people should have to pay for any sports injury?
If you run and have a knee or foot injury from repetitive use, you should have to pay for that?
And people on the pc a lot that get carpal tunnel - they should have to pay for that, especially if the doctor tells them they need to limit their use, and they don't?
Insurance should never cover venereal disease?
Or people over 40 giving birth? Because that's really high risk for birth defects.
Anyone that drinks should have to pay themselves if they get cirrosis?

And what if you take something like Prozac, for depression, and you get tardive dyskinesia? Should you have to pay for that too?

Should only very healthy people only get well people exams covered by insurance? For instance, when they go to get a job?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Avenginggecko
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


But your post seemed almost entirely centered around your choice.

You chose not to question or research what was being put into your body

You chose to get more for your money rather than practice portion control

You chose to continue eating after you stopped working out 6 hours a day

You say you topped out at 450 pounds...I'm sure there were several increments of that when you must have thought to yourself, "I'm getting a little big, I wonder why?"


If you are not or have never been fat, shut up. You have nothing to say that has any meaning.


Actually, the fact that we have spent the time and effort to ensure that we treat our bodies correctly would seem to highlight that perhaps you should be asking others for help. You initially say "If only someone had told me" and then end with "Shut up and don't say anything." - it's just confusing.

ETA: I don't believe people hate fat people. They hate "fat" because somewhere, even if you are completely ignorant of any kind of nutritional knowledge, you know that your body is not in a natural state. Ask anyone and they will tell you that their is a difference between someone who is genetically over-weight and someone who is obese because of diet, it is clear as day in the way that the weight is distributed over the body.

The problem is that like most "food addicts" that our consumer and snack driven society has created, obese typically refuse to acknowledge their addiction and do something about it - and by comparison to other diseases obesity is one that's curable and you'll feel amazing kicking it to the curb!
edit on 17-5-2011 by Avenginggecko because: (no reason given)


Portion control???

See, that is the thing. So much misinformation out there.

First, we are all different. You will want more in your stomach than someone else, who will want more than another person. The wiring that tells us we are full is different in everyone.

Add to that, we all burn body fuel differently. You get calories from 2 places: carbs and fat. Modern medicine tells you to cut calories by cutting fat. But that doesn't work on everyone.

Me? I am carb sensitive. My body burns fat VERY efficiently, but to do so i have to keep below 35 carbs a day. Get above that, and i switch to a carb burning power plant, and body fat stays in place.

Did anyone give me this education? Nope. I had to wait, first of all, for the internet to be invented (i am 39). Then, i had to wait to get the information loaded onto the internet. Then I had to figure out that the way my entire nation and culture ate was killing me. After that happened, i had to actually do out and do research to figure out the whole thing.

It was a process. A process that took a lot of owork on my part and almost no input from outside sources (although i started with Atkins, and modifed from there).

If you are not or have never been fat, you have no understanding and are just talking based on your own supposition. Your first mistake is to blame the fat person for their condition. While there is some blame there, the biggest blame is in trusting that the culture you live in has your best interests at heart.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by hadriana
 


Actuarial science should be applied to create tiers of insurance pools with healthier people having the opportunity to be in contained pools and realise the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle. What those pools cover and don't such as birth control, veneral disease treatment, etc, would be the purview of the firms creating the pools and to the extent that someone was in such a low risk pool and paying lower premiums as a consequence, and acquired one of those ailments or desire that treatment, they would either pay out of pocket or perhaps purchase a secondary insurance policy for those items were it to make economic sense.

Lets take a couple of extreme examples. Should all insurance pools pay for a liver transplant for someone who has totally abused his body by heavy drinking for decades and has sobered up for a year or two? No

Should all insurance pools pay for lung cancer treatment for someone who smokes? No. Should it pay for lung cancer for someone who does not smoke? Yes.

Should all insurance pools pay for bypass surgery for someone who has hammered their heart by being chronically overweight for years? No.

Should all insurance pools pay to treat an obese woman who has serious gestational diabetes during her pregnancy? No.

The market should be allowed to function and insurance pools should be created to reward those who live responsibly and provide a further incentive to those who do not.

The total pooling of society into common pools is essentially a tax on the healthy.

And yes, unfortunately some of it is luck. I have a genetic predisposition to high cholestoral and heart disease. Should that mean that I pay higher insurance premiums? Yes.

And I fully support the right of an insurance company to deny me coverage because of that condition. Were the free market allowed to function properly, there would be more options for those with pre-existing conditions



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Well, ObGyn docs, I figured so.
If I were a baby doctor and had to deal with that region, I would want all my patients to be perfectly physically fit and appropriately.....manicured?
But, I was not a doctor, I was a plumber.
So I dealt with a lot worse than just some ugly or overweight woman.
I literally trudged through crap.
But, I did it with a grin knowing I was billing someone for my sweat.
It seems maybe some doctors should not be in the profession where "Do no harm" is the motto.
Words harm too.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by hadriana
 

The total pooling of society into common pools is essentially a tax on the healthy.



Ok...but what about accidents?

And things that become threats that at the time, were not known to be?
For instance, my 70+ year old skinny dad, who ran his entire life and still works out at a gym 3x a week, has skin cancer. In the last month ALONE his health care bills were around 25k, but this has been going on for 15+ years.

Now, when he was a younger man, he was always trying to get a tan. Sun was good for you, they said. He's milk white and blistered and blistered and blistered. Then, in the 80s, suddenly they say Oh, sun exposure is bad, it causes skin cancer!
You've got a whole generation out there that was sunbathing and slathering on - I remember, weird stuff like butter, and baby oil mixed with iodine.

See personally, I think our problem IS our insurance system. It's really crazy to think that one can minimize health risks anyway - I mean - one thing is for sure - we are ALL going to die, of SOMETHING. Not ONE of us, skinny, or fat, snow white with skin cancer, or black with hypertension, is going to escape that.

Insurance, to me, is really crazy. If you can't afford to be driving a 50k car and lose it - wreck it - then why ARE you anyway? 50k is enough to buy someone a HOUSE. Is it right that because someone chooses to drive a 55k car, that I have to buy all this extra insurance?

I wish we could get insurance out of the way - I think it clouds our judgment and screws up the free market way too much. That's just my opinion tho- seems to me like the only other real fair way to do it IS to pool humanity, with all our inherent and assumed risks, and say, well, I've got my faults and you've got yours, let's make the best of this together.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Hadriana has the only post in this thread that makes any sense to me.

The hatred against fat people is real and the propaganda to support and spread that hatred is also real. In 1998, the WHO (closely affiliated and supported by Big Pharma) redefined BMI to lower the standards so that more people would be considered obese. This was the foundation of the obesity epidemic that we have been hearing so much about.

Now what possible reason could Big Pharma have for supporting the lowering of obesity standards and the false creation of an "epidemic". Does Big Pharma sell some kind of drug to treat obesity? Would health plans be used to pay for these drugs? What kind of profit might be made if you could divert tax dollars to pay for anti-obesity drugs?

And once that system has been well and thoroughly milked....here comes the alcoholic epidemic....and after that one comes the ....risky behavior epidemic

And so and so on...Has it occurred to anyone that the biggest portion of our health care dollars is being paid to Big Pharma to pay for useless, toxic drugs to treat conditions that for most of human history were not considered a problem?

And that the only thing to do in this case...the only way to stop the abuse...is to permanently dismantle the socialized health care system?

But people will die! you scream...aghast at the thought. Why yes..yes they will. And people are dying now under the health care system. But here is what will also happen without tax dollars to support health care...

1. Drs. will stop prescribing drugs to every minor ailment because patients can't afford it. Instead care will center on holistic medicine.
2. Drs. will stop charging so much for care. Mostly because their prices will have to be in line with what people can pay if they want to work at all.
3. Hospitals will also have to cut back on the care they provide and charge less for it.
4. People will die at home with family instead of in hospitals with every life-extending treatment provided.
5. Family would learn how to take care of their own again.
6. People would stop running to emerg for every bump and bruise.
7. People would focus on real disease and not just those things that increase the risk of disease (obesity, smoking, drinking, not eating 5 veggies a day etc.)
8. Researchers could only be afforded if the research was actually going into a cure and not an expensive treatment.

Lets just imagine what would happen if people had to pay for their own health care???

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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Those women who gain weight after having a baby must be doing whatever all other overweight people do.
Eat too much.
I had 2 babies...never had a problem with my weight.
I have weighed the same all of my adult life.

Potatoes?
If I haven't had potatoes, I haven't eaten.
They aren't fattening. They are highly nutrtious.
Pasta and white bread are mostly empty calories.

And when I make a steak - I eat the whole thing, all the meat, and all the Fat! Its really yummy. Makes me hungry thinking about it.
I have so-called "high cholesterol". I have it even when the only fat I eat is Olive Oil.
If I don't eat sufficient fat my eyes get dry. More would happen if that continued. Fats are necessary nutrition.

No one seems to remember that one of the reasons the doctors are refusing obese patients is because their tables are not big enough. Imagine a 300 pound 5' woman climbing on one of those standard tables....and rolling off
Splat!!!

Yes, without this sickness insurance (its rightful name) everything would be cheaper.
50 years ago an ordinary working person could go to the emergency room and pay for it with no problem.
The ordinary blue collar worker could pay for his kids to have toncilectomies and other common surgeries.
Even people who had heart attacks (a lot fewer of them in the old days) could pay for their stay without taking out a 2nd mortgage on the house.
An office visit to the doctor didn't cost 2 days wages.

edit on 17-5-2011 by OhZone because: to add info



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks
 


You are spot on. Removing all notions of socialized medicine is the only fix to our "health care dilemma".

Doctors know that they can gouge patients. Medicare sets the bottom line price, and it balloons up from there (depending on if the doctor takes medicare or not).

The problem, as i see it, is that most of our doctors are not American. And when you talk economic impact, consider the cost to our economy to constantly be exporting those dollars? 1 Indian doctor i know sends 35k a month home to India so mom and all the family can live (and invest...they now own TONS of businesses across the world).

A Pakistani doctor was sending 150k back home. The FBI got him after 9-11, claiming it was going to the Taliban.

The point is, how many doctors have any Americans best interest at heart? In Indian culture, an American is among the lowest caste's. Being even lower than the Dalit caste ("untouchables"). Culturally, we do not matter.

It is no surprise that our health care system sucks. We have outsourced it to India, too.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Obviously, you are not obese or you have never been overweight in your life.

If you were, I highly doubt you'd be spouting this nonsense about letting the market decide, etc.

The thing is, these doctors will likely lose business once word gets to their overweight patients.

It's all part of the depopulation campaign and it looks like you took the bait, hook, line and sinker!



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Also, some people have a glandular condition (hypo and/or hyperthyroidism).

I have to be on meds for the rest of my life due to hypothyroidism. I most certain can and have lost weight while staying on my medication. It is genetic as well.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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It's unfortunate, but the medical profession attracts people that are in it for the money and not because they care about people. While in nursing school, I am seeing this everywhere. I have fellow nursing students who blatantly say they are only getting into this profession because of the money and job security.They have a complete lack of respect for other students, are self serving and show no empathy for the suffering of their patients. How they made it into school is beyond my comprehension. It's these people who will end up killing someone. I see it with doctors who falsify documentation. That's right. I've caught them red handed and could do nothing about it, except report my findings to my clinic instructor who said it's not my problem. WTF!!! I'm sickened by what I see in the hospitals, by careless personnel, nurses and doctors. I've only been in this 6 months and I am becoming afraid of what is ahead of me. This is supposed to be a caring profession. People's lives are at stake. And yes, there are good doctors, nurses and personnel who truly care and are angels who save lives. But unfortunately, there are a good many who don't belong in this business. Being a doctor and being a healer are two different things. If I were obese and had a doctor tell me they wouldn't treat me because I was overweight, I would report that doctor to the state medical board and then find a doctor who isn't prejudiced. I dont' know if refusing to treat a patient because of a weight problem would be considered malpractice or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
Oh look, a troll thread against fat people. Never seen that before on ats.


I wonder if these doctors turn down patients who smoke, are anorexic, or are sexually promiscuous, or any other state that is an unhealthy lifestyle.

I know skinny people who are way more unhealthy then overweight people. Being skinny doesn't mean a person is healthy. And being heavy doesn't mean a person isn't.

You just keep going on with your bad self and your campaign to stereotype and marginalize an entire population of people.


Being heavy does mean a person isn't healthy! Duh. Heck being morbidly obese(they aren't talking about regular husky or fat) is worse then smoking, being promiscuous or being a druggy.

Also if someone goes in that is a regular smoker, druggy or sexual promiscuous(unless there is a major mess up where it is clear the Doctors messed up and not something frivolous) and something bad happens people accept that it is a matter of personnel responsibility.

What is with the morbidly obese and personnel responsibility? It is like they have an allergy to it or something.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
Also, some people have a glandular condition (hypo and/or hyperthyroidism).

I have to be on meds for the rest of my life due to hypothyroidism. I most certain can and have lost weight while staying on my medication. It is genetic as well.


Technically if it is the result of a medical condition like thyroids or something similar it would fall under the "Americans with Disabilities act". If a person is morbidly obese because they can't put the beer or Twinkies down then they are SOL.
edit on 18-5-2011 by korathin because: spelling error



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by unityemissions
 

Luckily I havent had any major ailments but I stay healthy. Its hard work but its better than doctor visits, hospital bills and feeling like a lardo all the time.

Prevention of disease through exercise and eating right is much more beneficial than causing a health problem with your own personal choices and lifestyle then paying a doctor to fix the body you've already messed up.


"lardo"? "personal choices and lifestyle"?
Ok a super skinny anorexic passes out while at work, should a doctor refuse to treat her? After all she CHOSE to be skinny, self inflicted starvation was a lifestyle choice that messed up her body right? So by your reasoning, nobody who has a problem/addiction that effects the body should be allowed to PAY for a doctor to help them!?? wtf
Ok page one and Im already mad

Have you ever had an addiction? Were you born pre-disposed to become addicted? Have any of you that are saying such asinine things about an issue you probably have no understanding about ever in your life been addicted to something that costs less than a salad and is EVERYWHERE you go???
Someone who is overweight is not overweight because they have an inherently flawed character, what they are battling with is not fat but their brain. A quick explanation is that their brain has been hard wired to be more partial to addiction, the evil, money guzzling, demon spawn that run the show have known about the human brain longer than our "doctors" and have used this knowledge to their benefit. By making certain food (and other things) geared towards "buzzing out" certain parts of the brain then getting their souless buddies in marketting and advertising to wrap it up and sell it as a fun treat to share on any occassion they set up a perfect get rich quick scheme, the genius was when they made this crud food available to the lower income working class, then the lower income non-working class, you know a couple of bags of chips is cheaper than a bunch of banannas now?! And its not even just about junk food like Mc Donalds almost everything that you find in the grocery store is processed and killing us slowly, even if you think your healthy because you only eat the vegetables and the fruit your in for a surprise cause those are killing/weakening your body too!
As someone else has mentioned, most lower income families do not have easy access to farmers markets, all they got is overpriced grocery stores and cheap takeaway shops. Throw in a psychological mind screw by getting everyone to beleive that healthy equals having the good luck of being born with model/starlett good looks and the recipe is complete, the middle class families and single working men and women who work all day and have no time/energy to cook automatically respond to marketting ploys and get something quick and cheap, then they fall for the health industry marketting and feel guilty so they join a gym, eventually they cant even look at a chocolate bar without breaking into a sweat. those who get addicted feel guilty their self esteem takes a plunge, men(or women) stop noticing you, you get bigger and bigger and then go on a diet..... and most of the time the diet doesnt work.
Then you get the low income overweight people, the "stupid" and "ignorent" ones right? Yeah we were born to single mothers and are destined to be fat no good lay-abouts sucking the system dry right? Yea we dont deserve to be treated when we get sick because its our own fault we are heavier than you
Yet how can you expect so much of people who were set up with the chips stacked against them in the first place? Not everyone is born to perfect families in the suburbs with a nice house and a nice car and opportunities for good education and higher learning at their finger tips, some of us are actually born to hard working single mothers busting their butts off all day just to pay the rent or power bill, who can only afford the cheapest cuts of meat supplemented by cheap carbs and small amounts of wilted lettuce/frozen peas, sometimes we are born into lives that are so tough that the only times of joy we get are associated with food and beverages that change the chemical nature of the brain, this food is usually the cheapest type of food. And how many doctors and scientists are going to these poor neighbourhoods and giving free lessons on the brain and how food effects it? how many doctors and scientists are going to the schools (mind prisons) for the un-privilaged and teaching poor kids about what advertising does to the nuerons in your brain? how many doctors are encouraging us to eat fat but not processed fat (or carbs) and teaching the difference between the two? And more importantly, where are the governments enabling poor people to grow heirloom seeds and own their own chickens/goats/cattle and the experts showing them how?? Nowhere, why? Becaue they want poor people to be sluggish, un-effective, un-educated and sterile, they want the working class to be forever working, spending and demonising the poor (instead of the puppet master) and they want the upper-class to have all the flash things, determine the fads and give the middle-class something to aspire to, all the while we get sicker and sicker, our intelligence gets killed off cell by cell the western population has their DNA devolved generation after generation till we end up a bunch of clones parroting whatever asinine thing the news presenters on tv say and arguing over whether overweight people should be allowed to visit a doctor......
Heres an idea, how about instead of paying hard earned taxes (that apparently me and my poor family are flushing down the toilet just so we can be stupid and ignorent and fat) we all use that money to buy heirloom seeds, or any seeds really (that produce food) buy a plot of land in every community and get the supposed " fat lay-abouts" to create massive community gardens that the poor and middle class alike can enjoy, not only will the overweight people lose weight with all the hard work they'd be earning their keep too! Or instead of going to war over every little thing, every country could use their defence budget and or welfare budget to empower the lower class to produce their own food, then they wouldnt need as much welfare, if they were given their own small plots of land on the priviso that they would use it to build their own home and produce their own food they wouldnt need a welfare at all and theyd be working. Think of all the miles and miles of land we have in most western countries, yet we allow TPTB to herd us into these cities, why? Because thats civilisation? What good is it doing us? Most people are sick or miserable or overweight or all of the above! Instead of demonising eachother how about we encourage and empower and teach eachother?
I dont know, whatever, I just think some of you need to do a bit more research into what is really going on before you open your mouth about issues that you only have an opinion on because the tv said such an opinion is right, and yea healthy eating and exercise is better than ending up in hospital sure but the fact of the matter is that its hard enough just keeping a roof over my head let alone finding the time to take a run or finding a way to get to the nearest farmers market (I dont even know where one is in my area), throw in the fact that I have to do battle with my brain everytime I smell a cheap pie...... You have no right to judge



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