US alarmed by David Cameron's push for early Afghanistan withdrawal, page 2

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by SaturnFX

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Why the racism?

Can't we talk about other countries without resorting to tired old stereotypes please?

Please...France is a country filled with the french
the french are not a race...
cultural elitism maybe...maybe can be called here...but racism doesn't fit. might as well call it sexism because there are women there also.

In saying that, I quite like french architecture...their food, contrary to popular belief, sucks...but their eye for some forms of art and building style is fantastic...but their general society attitude is crappy. (I spent a few months in paris in the late 90s/2000. I make my judgements on how they were pre-9/11...bunch of arrogant asses that make rednecks in arkansas seem cordial by comparison).

But anyhow, ya...its not racist...its culturalist..thats fair game.

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On topic I know what you're saying, but being dragged into something - I.e Afghanistan, due to the lies about BIn Laden, Al Queda etc

The (potential) lies come from corporatists that have their fingers dug into the world politics, not some american company, or english, but world. If anything, its dug in more in the middle east/OPEC than the west anyhow...so again, equal misery.
however, such conspiracys are not proven and could be just (get this) the ponderings of conspiracy theorists that would rather have their world controllable in their mind than consider there are just some wackjobs out there.
I personally think theres alot of corporate money involved though to perpetuate the growth overall

I don't doubt militant Islamic types exist, but I think our actions in Afghan haven't exactly quelled them have they?

No, it hasn't. I think a full removal of any western influence from the middle east is in order actually.

and should they mess with the west afterwards...meh..nukem

reply to post by Vanishr

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The queen doesn't hold the power to stop anyone who is elected anymore. Its just a tradition that will carry on to satisfy the royalists.

reply to post by jexmo

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I wouldnt be so sure about that, the queen is still very powerful, all you have to do is look at those people that got evicted from that island (sorry i forget the name lol, shocking) we wanted there land, so we kicked them off ? simple. The queen has and can suspend parliment in Canada at anytime, she has done it before. Look up Webster Tarpley, He knows what our glorious royal family is really about.

Originally posted by jexmo
The fact that the retarded U.S military seem to keep killing the British soldiers to me, says we should have left a long time ago.

Actually, it is your incompetent government not supplying your troops with the right gear quite often that leads to them being in bomb zones.
Source

however, if it makes you -feel better- to blame america fully verses be critical of your own government, then by all means, go for it.

Here is the stats though, if your curious

Afghanistan
British deaths by FF from americans: 5
American deaths by FF from americans: 3
British deaths by FF from british: 10

So, in Afghanistan, if you added up all the FF deaths from the US to both brits and themselves, it still doesn't equal the amount of FF deaths that the brits have brought on to themselves
-part snipped due to it being inaccurate and reported in the bottom external-

But again, as I said, if you want to blame americans for the incompetents of your officals, go ahead...sometimes it feels good to lie to yourself and blame other nations for your own nations shortcomings.

The U.S. has been responsible for 5 British military deaths in Afghanistan/Iraq:

Iraq - March 23 2003: A U.S. Patriot missile downed a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A ZG710 "D" of No. 13 Squadron RAF killing the pilot and navigator. This was debatable. Both U.S. and British personnel says that the aircraft's IFF indicator malfunctioned. Therefore, a faulty maintenance and equipment failure caused it, not the U.S. so who's to blame?

Iraq - March 28, 2003: A pair of U.S. A-10s from 190th attacked 4 British armoured reconnaissance vehicles of the Blues and Royals, killing 1 and injuring 5.

Afghanistan - 5 Dec 2006: An F/A-18C on a Close Air Support mission in Helmand Province mistakenly attacked a trench where British Royal Marines were dug-in during a 10-hour battle with Taliban fighters, killing 1 Royal Marine.

Afghanistan- Dec 5 2010: A Kiwi Soldier serving in the British military was killed by a U.S. F-18 plane in Nad 'Ali district of Helmand province during a firefight with the Taliban. The investigation is still under way.

The British have been responsible for 10 British military deaths in Afghanistan/Iraq:

Iraq - March 30 2003: Royal Engineers killed a Royal Marine Chris Maddison when his river patrol boat was hit by a Milan Missile after wrongly identified as an enemy vessel in Al-Faw Peninsula.

Iraq - March 26 2003: A British Challenger 2 tank came under fire from another British tank in a nighttime firefight. The turret was blown off and 2 crew members were killed.

Afghanistan - Jan 15, 2007: LCpl Ford, Zulu Company of 45 Commando Royal Marines, died after receiving a gunshot wound which was later found to be due to FF. The final inquest has ruled he died from a Royal Marine machine gun bullet. The report added there was no "negligence" by the gunman, who had made a "momentary error of judgment".

Afghanistan - Dec 20 2009: A Royal Military Police Officer Michael David Pritchard was killed by a British Sniper while on observation post.

Afghanistan - Aug 23 2007: A U.S. F-15 called in to support British forces dropped a bomb on those forces due to wrong coordinates given to the pilot by a British Forward Air Controller. 3 privates of 1st Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment, were killed and 2 others were injured. A British FAC is now facing manslaughter charges. There is no way you can blame the U.S. for this one. The wrong coordinates were given to a U.S. pilot by a British FAC.

Afghanistan - Jan 14 2009: Captain Tom Sawyer, age 26, of 29 Commando Royal Artillery, and Corporal Danny Winter, age 28, of 45 Commando Royal Marines, were killed when they were hit by a Javelin anti-tank missile fired in error by British troops in Gereshk, Helmand province, in southern Afghanistan.

The U.S. has been responsible for 3 U.S. military deaths in Afghanistan/Iraq:

Afghanistan - Pat Tillman, former famous U.S. football player, was killed in April 22, 2004. The U.S. Department of Defense concluded that Pat Tillman's death was due to U.S. friendly fire aggravated by the intensity of the firefight. An investigation concluded that no hostile forces were involved in the firefight and two allied groups fired on each other in confusion after a nearby explosive device was detonated.

Iraq - Battle of Nasiriyah: A U.S. force of AAV's and infantry were misidentified as an Iraqi armored column by 2 U.S. A-10s who carried out a few bombing and strafing runs on them. 1 U.S. Marine were killed and 17 were wounded. It's not "6 U.S. marine" killed as everyone believe in.

Iraq - April 3, 2003: A U.S. Patriot missile downed a F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, killing U.S. navy pilot Lieut. Nathan Dennis White. This was the result of missile design flaw identifying hostile aircraft.

They're nowhere near as high as people would have you believe if you keeping up the true statistics. No one is going to keep killing their own guys just for the hell of it. Any civilians who think U.S. military is poorly trained need go to the military themselves and experience how to become a real man if they're are so tough.

In Iraq/Afghanistan war, the U.S. has 200,000 troops deployed and committed 12 FF incidents. Britain has 20,000 troops deployed and committed 7 FF incidents. So do the remedial math. Take U.S.12 FF incidents and British 7 FF incidents as well as number of incidents vs number of soldiers deployed, who has higher rate(hint: British FF rates are 10 times higher than U.S.). Since U.S. deployed more troops than the British, thats mean the British committed more blue on blue than U.S.

In Afghanistan, U.S. has killed 2 British soldiers and 1 U.S. soldier. The British has killed 7 of their own soldiers. So more British soldiers died by their own fire than we have theirs and we have ours.

British FFs are mostly ground to ground. Most U.S. FFs are air to ground since the U.S. provides 95% air cover for all coalition forces.

(the source was yahoo best answers, I started checking them and they seemed to pan out)

reply to post by pjp14

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I did say me beef is not with the Americans but there leadership.

And I have a big problem with one country trying to intimidate another for not towing the line so to speak.
The faced is the UK just don't have the cash to be in any war.

Push to balance MoD books

Link www.ft.com...
MoD cost reviews looks to find fresh cuts

The Ministry of Defence is seeking to find more savings from the armed forces in the next financial year.
A three-month study, reporting in July, will consider which personnel and equipment programmes could be cut.
Last October's strategic defence and security review set out plans to scrap HMS Ark Royal and the Harrier fleet and cut 42,000 forces and civilian jobs.

Link www.bbc.co.uk...

Face it Britain is broke we can not do this waring anymore if it carries on we will have very little of an armed force left.
America can not afford to carry on much longer they already reached there debt ceiling carry on and the result will be much worse than the Russian implosion.

Thanks

reply to post by SaturnFX

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Afghanistan was broken way before the US got involved.

I also would like to get out. I don't think that there will ever be a government in Afghanistan that works.

There is just too much history in that area that is contrary to the concept of a central government without corruption.

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