Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun

A story in today's Philadelphia Daily News shows why it's so important that citizens be allowed to videotape cops - it can be citizens' only way to fight back against police abuse of power.

This incident happened several weeks ago in Philadelphia to Mark Fiorino, a 25-year-old IT worker who carries a gun on his hip at all times for self defense. He got the gun after several friends were mugged.

But he didn't count on attacks by police........

Story
Story




Audio contains profanity


Just another day, living in a Police State. Our rights are being taken away at an alarming rate.What do you think ATS?

(Mods,please feel free to move this where you deem necessary.I did a search,but found nothing on it.)

Great post - I was just going to post the same thing and found this using search.

Very interesting dialogue indeed.

S&F

I live in Philadelphia and those cops were just doing there job. You can't open carry in Class 1 city. You can open carry anywhere else in the state of PA but not in class 1 cities. Also I carry a CCW all the time and the cops never bust my balls. I'm also 25 and italian so this guy was wrong!

reply to post by Arcade425


The cops, department officials later admitted, were wrong. They didn't know that a person who has a license to carry a firearm can openly carry it in the city.


I dont know whos right or wrong,but the Police are admitting THEY are.

reply to post by Arcade425


Do a search for Directive 137. Here is just one of the many sites and posts with the information related to this directive.

Police directive sent to all districts regarding open carry in Philadelphia, PA Sept 22, 2010 GENERAL: 1272 09/22/10 12:53:20 TO : ALL COMMANDING OFFICERS / DEPARTMENT HEADS SUBJECT : FIREARM OPEN CARRY LAW IN PHILADELPHIA

1. DIRECTIVE 137, ENTITLED “FIREARMS” IS BEING UPDATED CONCERNING THE PENNSYLVANIA OPEN CARRY LAWS REGARDING THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA. THIS TELETYPE REFLECTS THE NEW POLICY AS IT WILL APPEAR IN THE DIRECTIVE.

2. ALL OFFICERS SHOULD BE AWARE THAT PENNSYLVANIA IS CONSIDERED AN “OPEN CARRY STATE” WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PHILADELPHIA. IT IS IMPORTANT TO DEFINE A FEW TERMS USED, WHICH ARE AS FOLLOWS: “OPEN CARRY” REFERS TO THE ACT OF OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRYING A FIREARM ON ONE’S PERSON. “OPEN CARRY STATE” REFERS TO A STATE THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRY A FIREARM ON ONE’S PERSON WITHOUT A SPECIAL LICENSE OR PERMIT. “CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE” REFERS TO A SPECIFIC LICENSE ISSUED TO AN INDIVIDUAL AUTHORIZING THE PERSON TO CARRY A FIREARM CONCEALED ON HIS OR HER PERSON OR VEHICLE.

3. IN PHILADELPHIA, UNLIKE ANY OTHER PART OF THE STATE, FOR ANY PERSON TO LAWFULLY, OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRY A FIREARM, THAT PERSON MUST HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE. SO, IN PHILADELPHIA, IF A PERSON HAS A VALID CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE, HE OR SHE CAN LEGALLY CARRY A FIREARM EITHER OPEN AND VISIBLE OR CONCEALED.

4. AN OFFICER ENCOUNTERING A PERSON CARRYING A FIREARM OPENLY IN PHILADELPHIA SHOULD FOR THE SAFTEY OF PUBLIC INVESTIGATE AS A POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION.

A. SINCE A SEPARATE LICENSE IS REQUIRED IN PHILADELPHIA AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OFFICER TO KNOW WHO DOES AND DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE, IT IS ENTIRELY REASONALBE FOR OFFICERS TO TEMPORARILY DETAIN AND INVESTIGATE ANY INDIVIDUAL CARRYING A FIREARM EXPOSED TO DETERMINE IF THE PERSON IS OPERATING WITH THE LAW.

B. IMMEDIATLEY SEIZE ANY FIREARMS FOR OFFICER SAFETY DURING THE STOP AND UNLOAD THE FIREARMS IF POSSIBLE, BUT ONLY IF IT CAN BE DONE SAFELY.

C. A 75-48A MUST BE COMPLETED AND THE BASIS FOR THE STOP WOULD BE A “POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION”

D. ONCE THE OFFICER RECEIVES CONFIRMATION THAT THE CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE IS VALID, AND THERE ARE NO OTHER OFFENSE OR VIOLATIONS BEING INVESTIGATED, OFFICERS SHOULD RETURN THE FIREARM AND AMMUNITION BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AT THE END OF THE STOP.

E. HOWEVER, IF THE INDIVIDUAL CANNOT PRODUCE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE OR THE LICENSE IS NOT VALID (I.E. EXPIRED OR REVOKED), PROBABLE CAUSE THEN EXISTS TO ARREST THE INDIVIDUAL FOR THE VUFAVIOLATION AND TRANSPORT THE INDIVIDUAL TO THE DIVISIONAL DETECTIVES FOR PROCESSING. THE FIREARM AND AMMUNITION SHOULD BE PLACED ON A PROPERTY RECEIPT (75-3) AND MARKED AS “ EVIDENCE”. A 75-48A FOR THE INITIAL STOP MUST BE PREPARD ALONG WITH A 75-48 FOR THE VUFA ARREST.

(Mods sorry about the caps, but this was the way the communication was provided)

Forum Link

Curious to what would have happened if they decided to shoot and he shot back, defending himself...legally.

When Police don't understand their own limitations and the laws that bind them, they create new ones from their own sense of 'Untouchable & Unaccountable'. This is the true line that must be defended.

That's going to happen soon and it will be the final turning point of freedoms being lost or upheld in the current movement to a Police State in America.

Fight the Good Fight!

My problem with all of this,is the Officers dont even know the rights of their OWN citizens,they are supposed to protect and serve. When confronted with someone that DOES know his rights,they threaten to SHOOT him. Those involved should be fired.

This is obvious abuse of authority. Not to mention demeaning and insulting to the "citizen". Listen to the way those cops are talking to a person who is calming trying to resolve the situation. Aggression and violence is all I ever see from the police. Yeah sure there are some nice cops out there, but where are they? They don't band together and denounce this crap and try to correct it from within. That's my opinion on police. In their minds we are garbage under their shoes. This is really sad.

Originally posted by Arcade425
I live in Philadelphia and those cops were just doing there job. You can't open carry in Class 1 city. You can open carry anywhere else in the state of PA but not in class 1 cities. Also I carry a CCW all the time and the cops never bust my balls. I'm also 25 and italian so this guy was wrong!

Actually, the cops weren't doing their job, PA law states that you only need a license to carry a firearm in your vehicle or concealed on your person. You don't need a license to open carry, and that includes Philly as per the Supreme Court. Before the Supreme Court overturned the law in Philly, you were required to have a license to carry in any fashion.

Supreme Court rules Philly can't set it's own gun laws


PA Gun Laws

Listen Nobody carries openly in Philadelphia unless they are a cop. Ask any real gun owner in Philadelphia. Carry openly makes the rest of us look bad.

Originally posted by Arcade425
Listen Nobody carries openly in Philadelphia unless they are a cop. Ask any real gun owner in Philadelphia. Carry openly makes the rest of us look bad.

Ok - opinion noted...

It still doesn't make this guy's experience any more or less legal because of how everyone else acts.

Originally posted by Arcade425
Listen Nobody carries openly in Philadelphia unless they are a cop. Ask any real gun owner in Philadelphia. Carry openly makes the rest of us look bad.

Look, I understand where you're coming from. In a city like Philly it is unusual to see someone open carry, and it may even make a lot of people nervous, including cops. Unfortunately all of that is irrelevant because the law is the law. What do you mean by "real" gun owner? Where I come from (Colorado), a "real" gun owner is fully aware of the laws that govern firearms, and carry regardless of how it makes a person who is ignorant of the law and/or scared of inanimate objects feel.

I understand there is a "defacto law" for the open carry in Philadelphia. Real gun owners= Guys who arent trying to jeopardize it for the rest of us. Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet. Guys who don't act like fools with there weapons. I hate seeing little kids waving pistols down here. It makes me sick sometimes. I carry concealed because I am a disabled veteran. If this guy was that threatened maybe he should carry more concealed weapons. You can carry as many guns as you can hide.

reply to post by Arcade425


Actually,a criminal is more likely NOT going to mess with someone,if they see a weapon,displayed openly.Why would they? Im more P!!Sed off after listening to the Officer,and how he talked to another human being.Then,when he was told he DOES have the right to carry,he was treated like a criminal.Then,when the police admit they were wrong,they trump him up on other charges to save grace. Its Pathetic.

Originally posted by Arcade425
I understand there is a "defacto law" for the open carry in Philadelphia. Real gun owners= Guys who arent trying to jeopardize it for the rest of us. Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet. Guys who don't act like fools with there weapons. I hate seeing little kids waving pistols down here. It makes me sick sometimes. I carry concealed because I am a disabled veteran. If this guy was that threatened maybe he should carry more concealed weapons. You can carry as many guns as you can hide.

First of all, thank you for your service... I did 13 years myself. You're right, it is a "defacto law", but that is just the same as having it in writing, because there is nothing saying that someone can't carry openly. I don't think anyone who open carries in Philly is trying to jeopardize anything for anyone, they are only exercising their right to keep and bear arms. I agree that if you do want to carry and your state offers a simple means of getting a concealed carry permit then that person should take advantage of it. Having said that, just because someone chooses to openly carry doesn't give a cop the right or reason to harass them. I am perfectly alright with a cop being made uncomfortable by the lawful actions of a citizen.

reply to post by TSearchX


Sounds to me like everyone who openly carries needs to wear a tshirt with that 137 directive on it.
front and back.

Actually you can go on cafe press and make a few. should be cake.

Also I would like to note I never agreed that the officers were treating him right. All I said was they were doing their jobs. Trust me I go to the Philadelphia Archery and Gun range at least three times a month. Most of the Philadelphia Police go there to practice. They always say "Whatever you do, do not open carry". It causes a lot of frustration in center city when 20 cops have one guy at gun point for open carring. I open carry everywhere outside the city of Philadelphia.

Considering the fact that the bad guys are not open carrying, as they want to draw as little attention as possible prior to the commission of whatever they're planning: I'm curious as to why police in any area would have such a wild reaction to someone open carrying.

I understand stopping them and investigating, (no one illegally carrying a firearm would likely simply stop) but anyone with half a brain who was planning on hurting someone with their weapon wouldn't likely walk around with it showing in a society that's become so anally gun paranoid.

And honestly, I don't see those exercising their rights as jeopardizing those rights for us all any more than gun-hating political crusaders are.

reply to post by sonnny1


Cops are not lawyers .. hell, most couldn't make it through community college. So the real problem is that they act like arrogant asshats when they have no idea what they are talking about....

Hope the dude sues the crap out of Philly for their fascist police officer's actions.

reply to post by Arcade425


They would be right.. you shouldn't open carry, because every cop that sees you will stop you for a VUF check. It would become incredibly annoying to carry in Philly. I don't advocate open carrying anyways, if it's open and visible that's your weakest defense, anyone attacking you would target your firearm first, possibly wresting it from you, or directly incapacitating you. Concealed they can't know you have it.