The "they" and "why" of the chemtrails

Originally posted by GringoViejo
You obviously have not read anything regarding "chemtrail lore" (which it most certainly is) on ATS.

It has been explained ad infinitum the difference between weather modification, crop dusting, firefighting, etc. and what people think are these fictional "chemtrails."

Claiming that any chemical being sprayed in the sky is "chemtrailing" is just downright disingenuous, but shows that the "chemmie" movement is truly losing steam.

If you guys are just talking about pollution, fine. Go do something about it, have air travel banned, have firefighting (forest fires and such) banned, have pesticides banned. I could truly give a #

Edit: It also amazes me that I never see any "chemtrail" believer taking any political action in their local governments. This is surely irresponsible if this hoax was true. The road to change does not begin with a congressional hearing.

edit on 18-5-2011 by GringoViejo because: (no reason given)

It's obvious I haven't read anything regarding chemtrails?? Interesting. Your right I haven't spent a lot of what little precious time I have sitting on here reading every chemtrail thread ATS has, I really don't care about the topic all that much really I was simply putting forth one viewpoint of the subject, which is why after this post I will humbly step out of the conversations here as were both hitting brick walls and I've spent waay too much time on this already.

Good day everyone, go on, you can count this as a win...

Originally posted by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth

Good day everyone, go on, you can count this as a win...

How is this a win for debunkers when you are leaving without denying ignorance.

I have a feeling that most of the "chemtrail" threads you've read talk about their existence and reconfirm your own beliefs/preconceived notions, since you seem to be ignoring the facts and science that point out otherwise in this thread.

Originally posted by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth
Yeah that's right I don't need evidence, it's a theory for discussion I'm not claiming facts or trying to prove something. When your sitting around a table with some friends discussing and theorizing about things do you demnad evidence everytime someone puts forth an idea?

Sorry, but you previously said:

Originally posted by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth
I do believe chemtrails are real

Sure, you've also said this is just based on a feeling you get when you look at some contrails. But I think what people are asking is "really?"

You are not just theorizing. You are actively stating you believe in the theory. I think people are just trying to figure out why. Asking for evidence is not asking for proof. It's asking for the reasons why you believe. Belief without evidence is just faith.

never mind

Has anyone EVER showed conclusive evidence these so called contrails were harmful?

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

HAARP is real and not just a conspiratorial concept.

You are correct, but it is not "modifying the weather" or "causing earthquakes" or even "controlling minds". It heats the atmosphere slightly, there is nothing conspiracy related about it.

Your the one that mentioned it being related to conspiracy myths no?

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by Alien Abduct

 

I hope you're not serious. HAARP, Navy Space Command, need we get into anymore conspiracy myths?

-Alien

reply to post by Alien Abduct

Great, now for us to gauge your opinion you should address the questions in my OP.

reply to post by Alien Abduct


HAARP has been (wrongly, ignorantly) attributed to many, many things.

It is almost a cornucopia of "evil", since it is so misunderstood (and, therefore...ripe for con artists to use, to fear monger amongst the ill-informed).

HAARP has been, depending on how paranoid psychotic a particular claim happens to be, connected to (but not all-inclusive):

"Chem"-trails

"Weather control" (related to the above, in the delusions)

"Earthquakes" (as in: *causal*)

ALL those three (not all-inclusive) are absurd, yet they continue to be spread about, on the Internetz, to the detriment of science, rational thinking and reason.....

Originally posted by HomerinNC
Has anyone EVER showed conclusive evidence these so called contrails were harmful?

they are certainly harmful in that they are pollution caused by combustion of hydrocarbons - I wouldn't want to stand in the exhaust of a jet for any period of time!!

There are a few reasons for this - mainly because it's hot, it's full of CO2, CO, & other crap, and it's likely to blow me away!! - kwc.org...

Originally posted by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth

Originally posted by GringoViejo
You obviously have not read anything regarding "chemtrail lore" (which it most certainly is) on ATS.

It has been explained ad infinitum the difference between weather modification, crop dusting, firefighting, etc. and what people think are these fictional "chemtrails."

Claiming that any chemical being sprayed in the sky is "chemtrailing" is just downright disingenuous, but shows that the "chemmie" movement is truly losing steam.

If you guys are just talking about pollution, fine. Go do something about it, have air travel banned, have firefighting (forest fires and such) banned, have pesticides banned. I could truly give a #

Edit: It also amazes me that I never see any "chemtrail" believer taking any political action in their local governments. This is surely irresponsible if this hoax was true. The road to change does not begin with a congressional hearing.

edit on 18-5-2011 by GringoViejo because: (no reason given)

It's obvious I haven't read anything regarding chemtrails?? Interesting. Your right I haven't spent a lot of what little precious time I have sitting on here reading every chemtrail thread ATS has, I really don't care about the topic all that much really I was simply putting forth one viewpoint of the subject, which is why after this post I will humbly step out of the conversations here as were both hitting brick walls and I've spent waay too much time on this already.

Good day everyone, go on, you can count this as a win...

The only people here hitting brick walls are the ones that still have zero evidence of chemtrails.

You obviously have not spent "too much" time on the subject if you haven't read all that much about it. You would also understand the ridiculousness of the "chemtrail" theory(ies) if you had spent "too much" time on the subject.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


THAT I can believe, but this other crap, as far as chemicals being deliberately sprayed from high above...I dont think so

Greetings! Me again... Guess what?! It's raining pretty good here right now. Strange thing though... the streets are foaming. I haven't ever seen anything like this. So, I googled it- top several hits were from forums here. None really had any answers. I took a few pictures and a short video from my window. I don't think I can upload yet, cause I'm so new. But seriously, it just looks like foam. Like at a car wash, but I don't think anyone was outside washing their car recently.

I found a lot of speculation (which is what we do) but pretty much no one has a clue. I could go out and get a sample, but would have no idea where to take it.

One said that the ground could foam if there were chemicals present already on the ground when it rained, but if that's the case, where did the chemicals come from?

Ideas? Natural phenomenon? Thanks for your contributions!

reply to post by ElizaAshdene


I have seen that, many times, when it rains after a longish dry spell.

There are more contaminants on the ground from a myriad of ground-based sources, over any given span of time, than is possible from any passage of airplanes up 5 to 8 miles over your head!

Automobiles, buses, scooters, motorcycles....just for starters.

Industrial factories, whether in your vicinity, or even dozens of miles away....stuff that they can spew from their smokestacks, lofted into the atmosphere at only a few hundred, to maybe a thousand feet high....will drift, and fall to the ground MUCH more often than something thinly dispersed at.....29,000 feet....30,000....31000, 32000, 33000, 34000, 35000, 36000, 37000, 38000, 39000, 40000 or 41000 (all a range of possible altitudes for airliners, and other big jets. Contrails may also form as low as 25,000 feet, on occasion...depends on conditions).

reply to post by ElizaAshdene


Has it been nice lately? Warm, sunny days? People washing their cars, having their lawns sprayed for weeds, applying herbicides and pesticides all over the place......all things that would foam given the right mix of water and motion. Cars and motorcycles also have oils and fluids leaking, oily exhaust, waxes, cleaners.....all of which can create foam. I remember from driver's ed (and I'm 50) that if you ride a motorcycle, you should not ride on the center of the lane because that is where all the stuff drips out and will be slick, especially after a rain.
The main cause of most ills caused by "chemtrails" are ground-based pollution instead.
It's called Occam's Razor (greatly simplified): the simplest answer is usually the best. Tracing a chemical back to an airplane 35,000ft over your head? Not very simple.

A little addendum to the above: One of the most rabid conspiracy-theorist (believes absolutely everything he does not know about is part of a grand conspiracy) complains bitterly about the coughing and shortness of breath he feels after being bombarded by "chemtrails".........and smokes like a chimney.
Can we all say DUH?
But it's not cigarettes or pot that are harming him, it's chemicals sprayed down on him from miles away. Right..........

reply to post by stars15k


Want to add an addendum to your addendum RE: breathing difficulties....especially asthma.

Another common 'theme' spouted by "chem"-trail believers is the (incorrect) 'increase' in cases of asthma. A news report this evening that I caught mentioned a study involving mothers who smoked while pregnant, and a connection to DNA changes that may have occurred, making some immune systems less resilient, and also connections to increases in cases of asthma in children.

Thing that was interesting is, the researchers discovered that the genetic 'injuries' can skip generations, and be passed on randomly. So, although (of course) much has been publicized against the dangers of smoking while pregnant recently, little doubt that in many generations past, this was not known, nor of concern.

reply to post by adeclerk


I'm not 100% on what chemtrails really are but I know they are real and I know it's bad. When I first heard about them I easily found all kinds of evidence on them. I've read many theories. All of them bad. There is a recent video from a news station where a man was watching chemtrails happen right over him and he noticed little fragments of something falling from the sky. He collected it and sent it to the news. It had high levels of barium and aluminum in it. I dont have the source because I dont feel like looking. You could see all this yourself if you even tried to research instead of posting this.
I have watched (many times) a chemtrail and a contrail forming at the same time. (obviously different planes) the chemtrails do not go away like contrails, they expand. They also make big x's or grids. Its insane.
I have also seen many at night. Its harder to see. But now that I am always aware of chemtrails I notice them. Once around dusk I saw "them" make a big X trail. (side note: you know sometimes when theres a big ring around the moon thats crystals or something!?...it was one of those nights) A few hours later I watched the big X (which was expanded) pass exactly through the moon with the axis of the X in the very center of the moon and there was the (natural) ring around the beautiful moon and a big X through the middle.You could clearly see it. So disappointing!
I've also seen jets going straight up into the sky making chemtrials. Why would they be going straight up? Something is going on. I know its bad and it's more frustrating that there isn't a clear answer.
In Zombieland there is a part where they're driving down the highway and they stop (I think for the Hostess truck) and i noticed chemtrails in the sky! Just a funny thing (I know I know its a movie) Even when the world is nothing but zombies theres still chemtrails. haha. Stupid but it just adds to my frustration of chemtrails. They are real. Their purpose is not good. Thats all I know and, for now, thats enough for me. Look this stuff up yourself.

Originally posted by alwaysobserving
There is a recent video from a news station where a man was watching chemtrails happen right over him and he noticed little fragments of something falling from the sky. He collected it and sent it to the news. It had high levels of barium and aluminum in it. I dont have the source because I dont feel like looking. You could see all this yourself if you even tried to research instead of posting this.

You mean this:


It has been shown to be wrong, years ago.
contrailscience.com...

I've also seen jets going straight up into the sky making chemtrials. Why would they be going straight up?

They are not. They are flying towards you. Like the "Mystery Missile". See:

contrailscience.com...

One of the best explanations I have seen of chemtrail spraying.

Atmospheric Geoengineering: Weather Manipulation, Contrails and Chemtrails

The reason we are here on ATS, is to speculate about what is going on above our heads. We have heard many times from certain members who come here religiously to tell us nothing is going on. In fact, they will diligently respond to all posts...bless their "little" hearts.

We have some speculation here, from Rense.com

What Chemtrails Really Are.

Far out? Maybe. Maybe not. Are you comfortable with people saying "I can explain everything...."

Real people are concerned. People that are not anonymous.

Chemtrail symposium

This is only a small part of the REALITY of what is called chemtrail spraying. Yet, anonymous posters claim the high ground here, like THEY know the real truth. I find this ABSURD.

I don't pretend to know what is being sprayed, but I DO know this! ATS does NOT benefit from these callous debunkers whom pretend to school others on what they are witnessing in this world. It is a REAL shame they are allowed to consistently harass and belittle ATS members who come here looking for people who are looking for answers like THEY are. You DON'T know that spraying is NOT going on, but you pretend you do, asking for evidence as if you respect anything that is brought to your attention that contradicts your mindset. You are disgusting.

My rant is done.

reply to post by Stewie



Note in your first link they quote some of Case Orange, with some maps. The “maps with daily spraying schemes” are described in more detail:

On top of this comes a map with spraying schemes in Europe, which has been released by Kevin Martin, a meteorologist working for the Ontario Weather Service in 2008. Later on such maps displaying intended spraying schemes for Europe, Australia and the United States appeared on the Southern California Authority website. Currently this section of the website has been shut down since January 6th 2010 for unknown reasons.

Now that’s funny. And sad. Kevin Martin is an enthusiastic young amateur meteorologist with ambitions to be a TV weatherman.

www.southerncaliforniaweatherauthority.com...

He created the “Chemtrail Alert System” simply to demonstrate he could forecast the formation of persistent contrails. He eventually stopped doing this, and posted an explanation, unfortunately I can’t find it. But on the last archived version of the page it says:

replay.waybackmachine.org...://www.owsweather.com/contrailreport.html

Disclaimer: This website is the official chemtrail alert system. The very first one backed by a meteorologist that knows what they are. Can they harm you? Yes. Is it deliberate? NO

He does not think it’s deliberate. His maps are not “intended spraying schemes”, they are just weather forecasts.


Kevin Martin, that amateur meteorologist quoted by Case Orange, did claim to believe in Chemtrails a few years ago. Now he does not:

www.examiner.com...

Studies from the SCWXA.org have been made over the past several years on people that believe in chemtrails vs. contrails. These studies produced the chemtrail forecast section in which forecasts for visibility of these trails were given on a daily basis.

During this time, forecasts were generated based on the amount of moisture in the upper levels and how cold it was. During times of no moisture above 20,000 feet these reports were not being received, however during moist upper level days the people would report the trails.

It is a misconception and business. Chemtrails are not real, and were developed like a comic book industry, to make money. The developers of this bogus theory are making off with your cash on T-shirts, Photos, Forums, and much more.

Believing in chemtrails is the same as joining a Star Wars convention. You join a club of people that share the same belief, and others around you know it is fake.

If they can be predicted by a weather person knowing how to forecast contrail visibility then they simply do not exist the way believers think.

Unfortunately his earlier work is being used as a serious reference. He was quoted as “Kevin Martin, a meteorologist working for the Ontario Weather Service in 2008″, which sounds impressive, as Ontario is a huge province of Canada with 13 million people.

Except actually it’s Ontario, California, a city near Los Angeles of 170,000 people. And the OWS is just Kevin Martin’s old personal web site.