The "they" and "why" of the chemtrails

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by wcitizen
As I have already said. You say you've read a lot on geo-engineering, so you've obviously seen the evidence gathered by many people in different parts of the world. That hasn't convinced you. So, now I am asking you what you want. You say ANY evidence - but at the same time you seem to want an official document which states it is carrying out an illegal and covert operation.

edit on 17-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

No, I'll take anything. Photos, lab reports, videos, anything.

What do you have?

Check out www.carnicom.com.... There are lots of links to follow from there.

I don't have the time to read through this website, but if you would be so kind as to link me to the top 3 most damning pieces of "evidence", I would be more than happy to read them.

I don't have the time to search them out. When you do have the time, you'll find them by doing your own research.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by wcitizen
As I have already said. You say you've read a lot on geo-engineering, so you've obviously seen the evidence gathered by many people in different parts of the world. That hasn't convinced you. So, now I am asking you what you want. You say ANY evidence - but at the same time you seem to want an official document which states it is carrying out an illegal and covert operation.

edit on 17-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

No, I'll take anything. Photos, lab reports, videos, anything.

What do you have?

Check out www.carnicom.com.... There are lots of links to follow from there.

I don't have the time to read through this website, but if you would be so kind as to link me to the top 3 most damning pieces of "evidence", I would be more than happy to read them.

I don't have the time to search them out. When you do have the time, you'll find them by doing your own research.

Darn it! And here I was thinking that this entire "chemtrail" hoax would finally be proven to be a real conspiracy! If the evidence ever surfaces, I would be more than happy to believe that we are being "chemtrailed", but as it stands the "chemtrail" hoax is nothing more than a belief based on faith.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Unless the reason why "they" (the Government) is spraying is to block out the sun to help with global warming. If this is the case then spraying at night would defeat the purpose.

-Alien

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by Uncinus

 

No....I belief it was this one....Not really a picture but nevertheless interesting to watch. On the YT-channel are other interesting vids to see on the subject.

Proof positive that aircraft sometimes fly at different alitudes! Debunk that!

The odd thing is why anyone would think it in any way odd?

reply to post by wcitizen


Perhaps you should research the entire title of the show: That's Impossible. It was a mini-series exploring conspiracy claims. Just claims, notice, not anything done to present anything that would negate anything the people in the show said.
As it was about "weather warfare", you would think that they would have had a meteorologist. They didn't. They discuss earthquakes, but did they have a seismologist? Nope. Who were their experts? People who make their living selling the "Chemtrail" conspiracy. No chemists, no geologists......just people who think "chemtrails" are real, telling their side of things.
Hardly anything like a smoking gun. It is the same typical things we see here everyday. People believe not because they have evidence, they believe because they want to. They don't want to learn the science, they don't want to see where they might be wrong. Or let me lessen that a bit.....they don't want to see there is an explanation that explains everything they see. They want the intrigue. They want to be part of the "informed" people in on a secret.
But, without tests done well, without producing something with provenance that shows something that cannot be explained, without credible whistleblowers, there is nothing there but belief. People can believe all kinds of things and be wrong.
Believers insist (repeatably) that there is a "chem-" element to a trail. So show us what that is. Not what you believe. Show us science is wrong. Show us we have made a mistake believing the science behind what we see. Don't just tell us. Don't insult us with your paranoid slurs. Show us something emperical, something concrete. PLEASE!
But you don't. And you won't. You believe. I want to know what I am talking about. And I've got decades of studies to learn from.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Check out www.carnicom.com.... There are lots of links to follow from there.

Take his "Contrail Physics" page.

www.carnicom.com...

In it he says that contrails do not sublime, but actually melt into water, which for some reason does not freeze. It's quite amusing:

1. The emission of water vapor from the aircraft.
2. The freezing of the water vapor at sub-zero temperatures into ice
crystals.
3. The warming of the ice crystals to the melting point through solar
radiation.
4. The melting of the ice crystal with solar radiation to where the
water vapor once again no longer is visible. This returns the water
to the state from which it was emitted from the engine.

So if it's in the state at which it was emitted from the engine, then why does it not freeze again?. He might as well add another line:

5. goto 2

I'm sorry, but that not evidence.

Oh, and he gets the size of soot particles entirely wrong, even more negating his entire "model"

reply to post by Alien Abduct


Which government? And why would they want to cover 0,5% of the sky?

Originally posted by adeclerk
[

Darn it! And here I was thinking that this entire "chemtrail" hoax would finally be proven to be a real conspiracy! If the evidence ever surfaces, I would be more than happy to believe that we are being "chemtrailed", but as it stands the "chemtrail" hoax is nothing more than a belief based on faith.

I'm glad I didn't waste more time with you.

reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth


Yep. Based on the answers you have given, you show you know "chemtrail" lore.
But not answers from science.
Look for reasons behind what you see, stop looking under the bed for what isn't there.
Usually the one's who know the least science involved are the people that learn the science the best.
Sorry I was wrong.

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by Alien Abduct

 

Which government? And why would they want to cover 0,5% of the sky?

Why come on here and expect people to spoon feed you information? There is masses of info on the web if you choose to do some research.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Ok, let me say right now that I don't like your attitude. It has been obvious from the start, and this post just confirms it, that you're not interested in anything but debunking. You're free to do that, of course, I'm free to draw a line under this exchange. I'm out. Go target your superciliousness elsewhere.

I don't give a damn if you believe in chemtrails or not, and I'm not here to persiuade you or anyone else.

I'm interested in science and stuff. But yes, my interest is in debunking, which means I ask for evidence, and then check that offered evidence. Since the show was offered as evidence, then some context seemed appropiate. Sorry if I offended you.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by Alien Abduct

 

Which government? And why would they want to cover 0,5% of the sky?

Why come on here and expect people to spoon feed you information?

Because if here is information out there that something is going on we'd like to know about it ASAP please.

It might take ages to find the relevant bit - or it might be missed altogethe among the vast amount of information of all sorts.

It is not asking to be spoon fed - it is asking for the knowledge to be shared.

There is masses of info on the web if you choose to do some research.

Why would you not want to point it out quite clearly to all and sundry?

What are you trying to cover up?? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by wcitizen

Why come on here and expect people to spoon feed you information? There is masses of info on the web if you choose to do some research.

Well, I've done a vast amount of research, and have not found evidence. So when you said you had some I was interested. But then you just linked me to Carnicom.

Why is it so hard to demonstrated the evidence?

reply to post by wcitizen


Hmmmmm....very interesting.....:

Why come on here and expect people to spoon feed you information?

You are the fourth or fifth "chem"-trail believer posting who uses that exact same phrase....

"spoon feed"...in the exact same context.

I smell the agenda, now....the true agenda, here.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk
[

Darn it! And here I was thinking that this entire "chemtrail" hoax would finally be proven to be a real conspiracy! If the evidence ever surfaces, I would be more than happy to believe that we are being "chemtrailed", but as it stands the "chemtrail" hoax is nothing more than a belief based on faith.

I'm glad I didn't waste more time with you.

I would love for you to provide me with tangible evidence of "chemtrails" but as of yet you haven't been able to provide evidence of, well, anything. As it stands, all "chemtrails" are contrails, perhaps you should make claims based on evidence or facts instead of your personal faith in the "conspiracy".

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by Uncinus

 

No....I belief it was this one....Not really a picture but nevertheless interesting to watch. On the YT-channel are other interesting vids to see on the subject.

That's almost certainly two planes at different altitudes. See a more detailed explanation I wrote here:

contrailscience.com...

It is very difficult to be certain if those planes fly at different altitudes. But then again you can spray wherever you want....even without an other plane insight.

Originally posted by zatara
It is very difficult to be certain if those planes fly at different altitudes.

So then wouldn't that be the most likely explanation?

Greetings! I've been reading through posts about chemtrails and googling as much as my little fingers will allow me. I don't have an opinion either way, just wanna know what is going on.

I'm here today, because last night around 10pm I was coming home from a friends house and notice a couple of trails in the sky. Then I noticed the little flashing lights of the plane making these trails.
Funny thing was it would fly, releasing the white trails, then turn around and fly to the other side, without releasing trails (I could see because of the flashing lights and last night's moon was huge). It did this until there was a huge grid of about 6-7 lines right over my little mountain town.

Now that last part is important. We live at about 8000 ft. And it is as dry as you could imagine here. The average humidity is about 32%, but it's often below that as it is a desert climate. This area is pretty cold, so I would say it safe to assume that way up there where the planes fly it's VERY cold- perfect for contrails with their little droplets of ice or water. HOWEVER, most things I've read (and it's not a lot) state the contrails happen in HIGH humidity. That is definitely not present here. I suppose it could be way up there though.

In any case, thought this info might be helpful.

Oh! And it's suppose to be sunny all the time here. I watched the trails last night for about an hour until they turned the clear sky into a hazy glaze covering the moon. Today there's scary looking rain clouds, but no rain. It doesn't really do that here. Or normally it wouldn't. The last few weeks it's been rather cloudy and late at night the ground becomes wet because of sprinkling.

I've just moved to the mountains so I'm not familiar with them yet, all I can do is look up Almanac info and such.

Thought my findings of last night would debunk some of the debunkers or perhaps confuse us even more.

One last thing- there was a strange smell last night too... this could be from the local trees finally starting to bloom, but it didn't seem so natural a smell. At first I thought something was on fire in our tiny town or near it. Fires happen a lot around here on account of it being dry. Alas, there was no fire last night. I have no idea...

Hope someone figures this out. Peace.

reply to post by ElizaAshdene


Question, since when is the humidity on the ground a reliable indicator of the humidity in the sky? Just wondering since it can be hot on the ground and cold at 35,000 feet (just like how it can be 20% humidity on the ground and 90% humidity at 35,000feet).

Originally posted by ElizaAshdene

I've just moved to the mountains so I'm not familiar with them yet, all I can do is look up Almanac info and such.

An Almanac would give you a good overview on the climate of your area, but the weather can vary at any time.

Originally posted by ElizaAshdene

Oh! And it's suppose to be sunny all the time here. I watched the trails last night for about an hour until they turned the clear sky into a hazy glaze covering the moon. Today there's scary looking rain clouds, but no rain.

It really isn't unusual for there to be clouds, seems most likely that you don't know the distinction between climate and weather. Here is a link on the difference between weather and climate to help clear this up.

Originally posted by ElizaAshdene
It doesn't really do that here.

How do you know, you did say you were new to the town, right?

Originally posted by zatara
But then again you can spray wherever you want....even without an other plane insight.

So let me get this straight, you can spray at any altitude you want, and yet they choose to do so high up in the air where the "chemtrail" would have to fall several miles before hitting the ground? How do they know if they are even hitting the areas they want?

A better question, why don't we see this planes "spraying" at low altitudes where it would make sense to be spraying? Is it possibly because they aren't spraying anything, that they are just making contrails (since contrails typically only form at higher altitudes, provided the conditions are right)?

I guess no pilot has ever thought to hit the mythical "chemtrail on" switch close to the ground.