Fair or Not? No driver's license for dropouts!

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

18 would be a good age, although well, I believe that the insurance sees those up to around 25 years old of higher risk for accidents...so,well, I go back to the idea that you could cut accidents by eliminating any group of drivers off the road....
I didn't get my license till I was around 30 and had three little ones to go shopping for and no one to watch them while I did and there was no choice. most of the kids I graduated didn't have one either. we got around fine, although it was a different time, safer world, and well, I lived in a small town, I could walk end to end...

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I thought it was our god given right to travel freely.....this clearly stops this, which means they are trying to get rid of even more rights.

Driving....traveling, is not a privilege its a right!

"Travel"(by foot!) all you want there is no "right to drive".Where would that idea even come from?)

edit on 16-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

Where did your idea come that you didnt have the right to "drive" as you put it?? You do know what driving is right?? Very very few of us actually drive, the majority of us travel in automobiles.

This is the problem, our whole language has been made to fool us. Driving is a what you do when your in commerce. Traveling is what you do to get to places. They are very different. I dont make money when i get in my car, therefor im not driving.

Who wrote the rules....it was a flesh and blood human being like you and i. These ideas have been passed down generations. The people that wrote these rules are no longer alive. Why should these people control future generations of people??

No one asked to be born and everyone is equal....we were all born to this planet. If i want to travel i shouldnt have someone tell me i need to take a test to be eligible.

There is "no right" to a lot of things in this modern world but ultimately we are as free as we allow our slave masters let us be.

And dont say your not a slave....we all are....we just dont get physically beaten by our owners. You pay tax, you dont want to pay it but if you dont you will go to prison. To pay tax you have to work or buy things, thats why work is such a big thing in the modern world. "Its unhealthy to be out of work" "your a layabout" etc etc.
These are things people have been conditioned to think.

If we were all free there would be no borders, you would not have to work to pay for things you dont want or like, you could do what you wanted when you wanted.

We have all been caught up in a massive scam, our parents, and there parents sold us into slavery without even knowing it

reply to post by AnteBellum


Its funny to me in general that people have this belief that you need to have permission to operate your own property.

All rights derive from property?

Apparently not.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


So what would be a good age to start driving o' master of the roadways?

MOTF?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

Automobiles were invented long after 1776, and, unfortunately, you are coming across as the quintessential American who can't live without his luxuries, and, in particular, his gas-guzzling car.

Actually, what you fail to understand is the fact that, with American law, all rights derive from property. If you have to get a license to do something, you are asking for permission to do it, which makes that act a privilege and not a right.

The fact that automobile OWNERS have to ask for permission to operate their property goes against the fundamental founding principles of our Union.

Also, pointing out the fact that automobiles were created long after 1776, and therefore justifies licensing, is a weak argument.

I read as much as I could, I just had to reply!

I absolutely hate, how our "system" is used to determine our driving "worthiness".
What happens in school is school. Their are many people out there that dropped out for valid reasons. I believe 11 years ago when I dropped out I had good reason then. If I lost my license because of that, lost my ability to get to work, or the store, or get anywhere my daily needs may take me. How can a "system" make that justification?

I have been fighting license issues my whole life. I currently still do not have a driver's license, due to complete nonsense that has lasted for almost 7 years. And it is a complete abuse of power, too suspend driving "privileges" with doing nothing more than sending some one time letter you may never get. Amongst other things. Just that one little card, can make or break someone. Most of you have it, and think nothing about it. But for some of us, it is merely a dream....


EDIT:
That looked bad on my part. I have a GED, and my license is suspended for missing a court date. Then things kinda built up real bad real fast. My license isn't revoked, which is why its so ridiculous.

I agree that it's a privilege to drive, but I also understand that it's a necessity in a lot of cases. A lot of jobs require you to have a license, at least where I'm from.

Besides, these people are going to have a hard enough time finding a job without a diploma. Which means that it's going to be a hard enough road to stay out of crime and off welfare. Do we really want to put one more obstacle in their way?

reply to post by loves a conspiricy


You are false there, driving is a privilege, not a right. You have a right to travel freely amongst the states, unless your on parole. but driving is not a right.

reply to post by dalan.


Assuming that you own the car your driving %100. If your making payments then you technically do not own that vehicle, that vehicle is property of whoever has the lien on the title.

I think it's a great idea! Schools no longer have a way to motivate kids to take their education seriously. The youth in my generation used to be motivated with fear of being paddled or having their teachers call their parents. Hold their privilege of driving over their heads, and I'm sure it will change a lot of lazy and negative attitudes about making the grade.

If we don't hold our youth accountable to take responsibility for their own education, this country will no longer have the innovative minds and hard working ethics that made this country what it is today. The only kids who would be against this idea are those kids that are currently lazy, and unmotivated to learn. I mean what's so hard about getting a "C" or a "D" for that matter. There are kids failing Phys Ed, how ridiculous is that?

what and how are driving an automobile and school related.

if anything, the dropout needs the drivers license more so he can contribute in the work force.

second, driving is the least of a potential dropout's problem.

why do lawmakers focus on the negative instead of positives. how about rewarding kids who stay in school by passing bills that give them breaks on insurance, or lower application fees.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by 46ACE

 

Over 50 Judges, Courts and Laws say it is our RIGHT TO TRAVEL by any means available to the public whether automobile, carriage or horse drawn wagon upon the public roads.

DENY IGNORANCE!

THEN THE ISSUE IS WITH THE socalled REQUIREMEN TO BE"LICENSED".Not whether you get to cruise main in daddy's beemer for your 16th birthday party..Its plain to see some govt. do-gooder is "thinking" again...

Kids want to drive; kids need to stay in school. driving privileges are the carrot. And I have to agree due to my political beliefs: when people start thinking they know best for others it usually turns out badly .However; parents have that very responsibility to look ahead for their short sighted kids future.

Dropping out is a short sighted mistake that will set them back years from their peers.

I'll accept the argument: "people("of responsible age") should be responsible for their own mistakes" over:
A rebellious 15 year old malcontent crying "you can't do that it's my right! I'm entitled" about not getting their drivers license .


added:: Got a link to those 50 decisions????
.

I don't see a problem with it personally. It's like that here in Florida, if you drop out you can't get your license til you are 18.

Sorry but school is something you shouldn't drop out of esp when you only have a year or two left which is usually when most drop out. Everyone I know who dropped out dropped out because they were lazy and they will all pretty much admit it.

I think it's sad that kids today don't have parents who encourage them to go to school. I know not all parents are like this but it seems like that is how it is now. I see the drop out rates increase in many areas and it's sad.


Could it be that some are bored and see no point in it? I know I was bored as all get out in school, I never felt challenged enough but I finished and did well.

I know some people aren't cut out for school but imo it is important and one should complete it and if you don't then why should you have the privilege to drive before 18? 18 makes you legally an adult but before that you aren't and your parents have to sign a waiver to get your license then so if you don't go to school then you shouldn't be awarded with a DL.

this is total bull#. only us Americans would even consider something like this. we shouldn't be judged and given "treats" like a god damn animal for doing tricks like sticking it out through our terrible school system. (which is and has been deliberately held back)

this is not freedom. the America i know doesn't care how much schooling you have, but how you treat others.

driving is a privilege, but to have our far-from-perfect school system become a prerequisite is not rational.

if you are a drop-out there will be more than enough hurdles in your life, but taking away a driving privilege has nothing to do with that.

i cant help but believe if anyone is in favor of this then you are in favor of a nanny state to take care of you. grow up, you don't need a government telling you things that any normal person should just do because it is positive for their life. if you can't recognize that then you will dig your own grave.

like ron paul stated sarcastically in his debate against laws regarding hard drugs like heroin "oh my gosh, i don't want to do heroin so i need these laws" (sic)

seriously people, you don't need laws telling you things that are simply in your best interest. grow up so we can progress past this modern feudal system.

I want to say I agree, but there are other circumstances that would lead to even a good person having to drop out of school and certain responsibilities these people may have that require them to drive. My mother for example was a straight A student, not a trouble maker, but she made a bad decision and was forced to drop out of school to raise me. If she didn't have a license, what would we have done? She wouldn't have been able to go to work or take us to doctors appointments... She later returned to school and graduated, and went on to college.

I like the idea of this, and I think it would decrease drop-out rates. Though I also think there should be permits or exceptions to this law if it were to be enacted.

Who ever came up with this clearly has no understanding of the kids most likely to drop out of school.
The poor!
I don't know about other states but this would never work in California because most high school dropouts rarely get their license before the age of 18 anyways.

In California drivers under the age of 18 have to go through drivers education, which is provided by the schools. More importantly though they have to go through drivers training which costs a lot of money. On top of that the car in which they take the drivers test, not only has to be legal, but can't have any broken lights mirrors ect.

Most families of drop out children don't have that kind of money. Most of these children already know they won't be able to get their license until their 18th birthday when the requirements are reduced, so they could really care less.

And what about children who are forced to drop out to support their family or care for a dying parent like I had too?
Do you think I wanted to drop out? Hell no! School was an escape for me, it was paradise compared to what I had to deal with at home. Its the same story for many drop outs.

It amazes me how many people on ATS are so ignorant when it comes to poverty.
If people want to fix the problem they have to understand where the drop outs are coming from.
Are there kids who drop out for other reasons? Absolutely but those problems could be remedied fairly easy if people just took the time to see where the drop out was coming from.

Originally posted by AnteBellum
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/380fa385e5f7.jpg[/atsimg]

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- A bill under consideration in the Minnesota Legislature would try to keep teenagers in high school by preventing dropouts from getting their drivers licenses.
The Star Tribune reported Tuesday that the proposal has bipartisan support, including the backing of Sen. Gen Olson, a Minnetrista Republican who heads the Senate Education Committee. The bill hasn't had a hearing yet.
At least 20 other states, including Wisconsin and Illinois, link school attendance and driving privileges. Minnesota law requires students to stay in school until age 16. More than 4,000 high school students dropped out in 2009, or 5.6 percent based on four-year graduation rates, according to the state Education Department.

I believe this is a bad way to solve an even worse problem.
Our kids don't always want to drop out of school, some have suitable reasons for taking leave. This will just add another obstacle in there paths.
What do you all feel about this, as it is being instituted in more and more states recently?

Link to story

Well as long as they make them pass a reformed(made harder) GED test then there should be no issue to this.

Hang on just a damn minute ... shouldn't parents take control of the situation?

Originally posted by Adyta

How the hell is drug testing to get an unemployment check a stupid idea? I think it's fair to make sure MY tax dollars aren't being used for you to buy drugs.

Your tax dollars don't fund unemployment. It comes from a fund that is paid into by employers through a tax specifically for it, and unemployment benefits are the only thing the fund can be used for. Now, if you don't want our tax dollars going for drug addicts on welfare I'm with you.


As for the topic...I don't think it's a good idea. There are many reasons for kids dropping out other than them just not wanting to go to school. If they want to stop kids from dropping out they need to change it so kids can't drop out when they reach 16 years of age.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux

Originally posted by Adyta

How the hell is drug testing to get an unemployment check a stupid idea? I think it's fair to make sure MY tax dollars aren't being used for you to buy drugs.

Your tax dollars don't fund unemployment. It comes from a fund that is paid into by employers through a tax specifically for it, and unemployment benefits are the only thing the fund can be used for. Now, if you don't want our tax dollars going for drug addicts on welfare I'm with you.


As for the topic...I don't think it's a good idea. There are many reasons for kids dropping out other than them just not wanting to go to school. If they want to stop kids from dropping out they need to change it so kids can't drop out when they reach 16 years of age.

Or they could investigate the reasons why kid's are dropping out.

Differences by Gender
In 2005, 11 percent of males ages 16 to 24 were high school dropouts, compared with 8
percent of females. Although males comprise 51 percent of the population, they make up
58 percent of the dropouts in this age group.
www.childtrendsdatabank.org...

bleh.. I was going to also post a demography of the gender of teachers but the last one that was easy to find was from 2000 at 20 male, 80 female. And women are intent on maintaining dominance in the educational system

The easiest way to end the dropout problem is to breakup the all girls club in education and hold teachers accountable in criminal courts if a pattern of discrimination appears.

Scotland seems to be the only government looking into this problem, the English are celebrating it and the American Feminist system remains unconvinced male teachers have any value and are content to further marginalize men and boy's.

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So if you keep them from dropping out it will only increase the male suicide rate.

In the U.S, male adolescents commit suicide at a rate five times greater than that of female adolescents, although suicide attempts by females are three times as frequent as those by males. A possible reason for this is the method of attempted suicide for males is typically that of firearm use, with a 78-90% chance of fatality. Females are more likely to try a different method, such as ingesting poison.[3] Females have more parasuicides. This includes using different methods, such as drug overdose, which are usually less effective.
en.wikipedia.org...