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URGENT – IMMEDIATE ATTENTION: Spirit of Rachel Corrie Ship Heading Towards Gaza Attacked By Israel

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posted on May, 19 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


All of the talk about Israeli actions being illegal in terms of the settlments and other actions are all based on UN resolution 242, which ended the 6 day war. That resolution calls for israel to withdraw from captured territory and ONLY pertains to territory captured during the 6 days, and not prior.

The other part of that resolution was for arab government to recognize israel, and even then it was never signed on by arabs until 1988. Hamas, being the elected government of Gaza, does not recognize Israels right to exist, making their actions in violation of 242 as well.

They dont get it both ways. They cant argue Israel is violating the resolution, when Hamas is doing the same. Continued attacks on Israel from Hamas also violate 242 to cease all offenseive action.

If Hamas is to be the legitimate government of Gaza, then they must abide by UN resolution 242 and recognize Israels right to exist. If they dont, then they are in violation of it, giving israel the right to deend itself, which is specifically spelled out in 242.

The armistice of 1949 and UN resolution 242 have never set a defintitive border. The armistice of 49 told all parties to stop where they were at. 242 called for a return of captured territory pertaining to just the 6 day war, which is the Sinai (returned to Egypt with the condition its Demiliterized). The remaining territory was to be returned when all parties sign peace treaties with Israel.

To date, the only countries that have are Jordan and Egypt. Egypt is now up in the air because of their government change, and there are no relations with Syria.

Both resolutions specifically cited the issue of borders. They both stated the "borders" are not defintitive as Israel has a right to defensible borders. This was akcnolwledged when the PLO signed onto 242 in 1988, and when the arab governments accepted the armistice of 1949.

BackinBlack wanted evidence to show Israeli actions were legal, and I was providing them. Because Hamas is violating the armistice as well as 242 by continuing to refuse to recognize Israel, and by launching attacks, Israel is allowed under UN Charter to defend itself, as they have been doing.

Hamas either has to recognize Israel right to exist, or they are in violation of Un resolution, and as such, can be attacked for violating it.




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Both resolutions specifically cited the issue of borders. They both stated the "borders" are not defintitive as Israel has a right to defensible borders. This was akcnolwledged when the PLO signed onto 242 in 1988, and when the arab governments accepted the armistice of 1949.

BackinBlack wanted evidence to show Israeli actions were legal, and I was providing them. Because Hamas is violating the armistice as well as 242 by continuing to refuse to recognize Israel, and by launching attacks, Israel is allowed under UN Charter to defend itself, as they have been doing.

Hamas either has to recognize Israel right to exist, or they are in violation of Un resolution, and as such, can be attacked for violating it.


Defensible borders are for occupied territories and does NOT allow for building settlements for civilians..
You know that but as with most you like to twist the facts..
You can't force Hamas to recognize the Jewish State of Israel anymore than you can force Israel to recognize the state of Palestine..

World public opinion is turning against Israel..
Of course they will scream the anti-semetic card and remind us daily of the holocaust and that they're God's chosen, but in the end I think they need another false flag event to continue as they are..



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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Hamas's refusal to recognize Israel is a violation of the UN resolution 242.

So long as Israel is not recognized, Israel does not have to comply with any resolutions.

Simple as that.
edit on 19-5-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
Hamas's refusal to recognize Israel is a violation of the UN resolution 242.

So long as Israel is not recognized, Israel does not have to comply with any resolutions.

Simple as that.
edit on 19-5-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


Hamas refused to recognize the 'Jewish State of Israel"..

Please point out where 242 demanded that...



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by srsen

URGENT – IMMEDIATE ATTENTION: The Spirit of Rachel Corrie Ship Heading Towards Gaza Attacked By Israeli Forces – 16TH MAY 2011


infofeeder.info

10:57am KL, Gaza 5:57am:
One Israeli warship coming to us very fast!
We are in international waters, therefore they have no right to attack us.
We are still sailing ahead.

10:59am KL, Gaza 5:59am:
They are opening fire across our ship!
We are still sailing ahead.

11:09am KL, Gaza 6:09am:
They are shooting all over the place.
We can’t continue …

11:35am KL, Gaza 6:35am:
They circled our ship twice and fired across our ship. Machine guns.
No one was injured.
One of the fishing nets caught the propeller, so we can’t move now.
(visit the link for the full news article)


edit on 16-5-2011 by srsen because: (no reason given)




10:59 They are blocking the road. We are still driving.

11:31 They are firing their weapons into the air all around us. We're still driving to the restricted area.

12:25 They're shooting at our truck. One of the road spikes caght our tires, so we can't move now.

ALERT !!! " TRUCK FILLED WITH GUNS AND EXPLOSIVES STOPPED AT SCHOOL."


See the similarity ? These people are terrorists in sheeps clothing.





edit on 19-5-2011 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


The war ended with UN REsolution 242 (1967) - Wiki.
UN Resolution 242 - UN Website

UN 242 passed the security council and had 2 main components -
* - Israel was to withdraw from captured territory
* - Palestinians were to recognize the existance of Israel.

and minor components -
* - Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

* - Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

* - Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

* - Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

* - Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

Affirms further the necessity

* - For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;

* - For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;

* - For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones.


UN resolution 242 was adopted by the UN in 1967.

edit on 19-5-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



UN 242 passed the security council and had 2 main components -
* - Israel was to withdraw from captured territory
* - Palestinians were to recognize the existance of Israel.


242 was too vague..
It was never going to be accepted by the Arabs and most agreed..
From YOUR link.

Secretary of State Dean Rusk commented on the most significant area of disagreement regarding the resolution:

There was much bickering over whether that resolution should say from "the" territories or from "all" territories. In the French version, which is equally authentic, it says withdrawal de territory, with de meaning "the." We wanted that to be left a little vague and subject to future negotiation because we thought the Israeli border along the West Bank could be "rationalized"; certain anomalies could easily be straightened out with some exchanges of territory, making a more sensible border for all parties. We also wanted to leave open demilitarization measures in the Sinai and the Golan Heights and take a fresh look at the old city of Jerusalem. But we never contemplated any significant grant of territory to Israel as a result of the June 1967 war. On that point we and the Israelis to this day remain sharply divided. This situation could lead to real trouble in the future. Although every President since Harry Truman has committed the United States to the security and independence of Israel, I'm not aware of any commitment the United States has made to assist Israel in retaining territories seized in the Six-Day War.[9]


Israel NEVER agreed to pull back to pre 1967 borders..
They considered that indefensible.
So your first point was NEVER agreed to by Israel..
Let's not blame the Arabs for that..



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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The 242 Resolution was signed off on by the Arabs, in 1988.

Israel stated they wouldreturn the territory for peace treaties.
Arabs were suppose to recognize the existance of Israel.

vague? sure is since neither 242 nor the 1949 armistice dealt with permanent borders.

It doesnt change the fact thought that 242 had the requirements stated.

Maybe you an answer this question for me -

What do you think would happen if Israel returned Gaza to egypt, The west bank to Jordan, instead of the Palestinians?

Would that be viable? I know the West bank issue revolves around Israeli settlements, but theoretically speaking, if Israel withdrew from all of the West Bank, all of their settlements, and turned it back over to Jordan, what might happen?
edit on 21-5-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Jordon would probably say the Palestinians can have it..
But that's not the issue..

The issue is that Israel never has and never will peacefully retreat to pre 67 borders..
Israel is the problem and only the minority argue differently, yourself included..



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


For starters I have criticised Israel in threads, so I dont blindly support them. Secondly the reason I asked the hypotheticals is so you and I dont derail the thread with another 50 plus page of back and forth.



posted on May, 21 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Yes, best we agree to disagree as usual..
You preach the new revised Israeli style of history..

I prefer the real deal.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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just thought i would pop an update into this thread.

after being granted initial permission to dock in Egypt, with the idea of the aid being then transported to gaza, a sudden u-turn has happened by the egyptian government. (looks like they are back to their old ways, and back in the pockets of the israelis)...

updates of what is happening with Spirit of Rachel Corrie can be found here:

Spirit of Rachel Corrie Updates

here are the latest updates from the site:


UPDATE Monday 23 May At 8.33am EDT (14.33pm local time)

The Spirit of Rachel Corrie lifted anchor and started sailing towards Gaza.



UPDATE, Monday 23 May, at 13.30pm EDT, 20.30pm local time

The Spirit of Rachel Corrie is back in Egyptian territorial waters. The crew and passengers are safe. The Malaysian Embassy in Cairo has advised that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has granted permission to the ship to berth in the port of Al Arish tomorrow May 24th and unload its cargo.

This decision by Egypt's Foreign Minister Nabil Al Arabi, which remains to be confirmed, is of fundamental importance.

Mr. Al Arabi had indicated almost month ago his resolve to open the border at Rafah and end the Gaza blockade.



UPDATE: 9:53pm EDT, Egypt time 3:53pm

"The Egyptian Navy is forcing us out of their territorial waters and has asked us to go to international waters. One Egyptian patrol boat is coming very fast from behind with a gun pointing at us." Everyone is calm and steady. We are okay."

From our latest communication with the ship, it appears that the Egyptian Navy is collaborating with the Israelis with a view to endangering the security of the ship.



just thought the update would be helpful.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by djyorkie
 



This is nothing more than an intentional provocation of Israel by progressives and Islamists.

The goal is not "humanitarian". The goal is to, as always, make Israel the bad guy in the eyes of the world....nothing more. I do not care if you are a Zionist or a "real Jew". Israel is a nation. It has the right to defend itself from all enemies, foreign or domestic.

Israel should board the ship, remove and arrest it's occupants since they are unarmed, confiscate any useful contraband, and sink it.

ETA: Israel is showing much more restraint than the bone heads on this ship or their sponsors deserve.

edit on 23-5-2011 by Hugues de Payens because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-5-2011 by Hugues de Payens because: Editorial

edit on 23-5-2011 by Hugues de Payens because: Editorial



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by Hugues de Payens
reply to post by djyorkie
 


This is nothing more than an intentional provocation of Israel by progressives and Islamists.

The ship is carrying 7.5 kilometers of UPVC (plastic) sewage pipes to help restore the devastated sewerage system in Gaza.
how is delivering plasic sewage pipes a provocation?


The goal is not "humanitarian". The goal is to, as always, make Israel the bad guy in the eyes of the world....nothing more. I do not care if you are a Zionist or a "real Jew". Israel is a nation. It has the right to defend itself from all enemies, foreign or domestic.

again, i ask how is delivering plastic pipes not "humanitarian". surely everyone has the right to use a sewage system? especially if it was once in place and has been destroyed. so people that deliver sewage pipes are enemies of israel? and you need to defend yourself against such deliveries?



Israel should board the ship, remove and arrest it's occupants since they are unarmed, confiscate any useful contraband, and sink it..

hmm, so the delivery of sewage pipes gives israel the right to board the ship in international waters, confiscate the sewage pipes, and sink the ship... where i come from, that is piracy.


ETA: Israel is showing much more restraint than the bone heads on this ship or their sponsors deserve.


so because this ship is delivering much needed sewage pipes to a state that has had their sewage system wrecked, they get called bone heads??? i really do not understand your logic.

also, i dont understand why your post in reply to me is of such aggressive nature? all i was doing was updating the thread with details of the current situation, then you come in blowing off your thoughts with little regard to the actual content of my post.
i didnt post this for any other reason than to give updated info. if i didnt have any view on the arrogance of israel and its supporters,, then i surely do now. you do yourself no favours.


and finally, i would just like to draw your attention to this web page
(i know the article can be considered old, having been posted January 14, 2009, but i bet it is still valid, unless can be prooven otherwise)
water and sanitation critical in Gazaso before you say sewage pipes are not humanitarian, i think a lot of people will beg to differ

edit on 24-5-2011 by djyorkie because: added link at bottom



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by djyorkie
 


If all they are delivering is Humanitarin aid then they should have no problems docking and having their cargo inspected.

If the floatillas actually cared about delivering the aid, then they would deliver the aid to the designated ports to get it to gaza as fast as possible. Instead, they are using the blockade and the "aid deliveries" as a pretext to confront Israel.

If they want to challenge the legitimacy of the blockade, take it to the UN.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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as it clearly states on the website link:


On May 16, immediately following the Israeli attack, the Egyptian authorities came on board, inspected the ship's cargo and documentation and acknowledged the humanitarian nature of the mission.


so it has already been inspected, and confirmed that it is humaitarian.
this being the case, the need to use a "designated" port outside of the state it is intended for is not needed.
why the need to use israel as a middle man instead of direct delivery, which would be much quicker, and would show that israel has consideration to the humanitarian crisis in gaza.
is the coastline of gaza israeli property/land?
if the boat has confirmation of what it is carrying, and has been fully checked, then there is really no need to take up such arrogance. it is this arrogance that turns people against them.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by djyorkie
 


If you took any time to look into the legality and procedure of the blockade, you would see that Egypt inspecting the cargo, DOES NOT count.

Israel is enforcing the blockade, they inspect the cargo... Period!!!!

As another very intelligent person pointed out.... If you have a problem with the blockade, take it to the UN! Don't continuously attempt to break the blockade!

These people are only trying to poke at Israel.... Careful with that method.... It could hurt ALLOT!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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as with most cases concerning israel, they just continue to break rules and laws for their own means!!!

as for the continual gumpf about "take it to the UN"... , you know they would be blocked by closest allies at all turns, just like happens whenever anything concerning gaza becomes the SUBECT !!!!

it becomes a fruitless task. at the end of the day, the innocent people withing Gaza are the VICTIMS and Israel the Aggressor!!!

Even the powers that be have been quoted as saying 'The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,' but it has now gone beyond THAT when kids are being killed by weapons in the hands of the israeli MILITARY!!!!

as with most replies to my simple posts, not one in support of israel can supply genuine authentic evidence, so its all a load of bull ANYWAY!!!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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So, did Israel lift the ban on bringing chocolate and toys to palestinian kids? Building materials for this massive ghetto of theirs creates a threat in the face of their massive array of nukes? The israelis and their sycophants on ats and the msm disgust me to no end.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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latest update from The Spirit of Rachel Corrie



LATEST UPDATE, Tuesday, 24 May 2011, 7.13am EDT, 13.13 local time

According to our latest communication (satellite phone) from the ship, the boat is still stranded in territorial waters.

The Egyptian port authorities have not received instructions to allow the ship to berth, despite the decision of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which was communicated to the Malaysian embassy. According to sources, it would appear that the decision is being blocked by Egypt's Military Intelligence, in consultation with Tel Aviv anbd Washington.

Meanwhile the ship has become a de facto prison. It is running out of water and food.

"Our water supply is totally finished. We are now using sea water to clean ourselves, flush toilet, and wash dishes. We are only using half a bottle of mineral water for final cleansing of cooking utensils, after boiling it to get rid of the oil and dirt.

Each member of the crew and passenger must get their own pail of sea water each time they use the toilet and to flush it. We are now rationing our drinking water supply which consists of limited bottles of mineral water. However, the spirit and morale of the team is high and we are resolute to face all eventualities and to defeat and overcome any schemes that may prevent the cargo from reaching Gaza."




edit on 24-5-2011 by djyorkie because: added ex-text bbcode



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