Is there any evidence, really?

Originally posted by WilburWheately
No. There is absolutely NO scientifically valid or testable evidence that can support the existence of visiting ETs. Conspiracy nuts will scream until they are blue in the face that there is, but there really isn't anything that can be done about that.

What you will get instead is a bunch of rhetoric involving "credible witnesses," followed up on with various diplomas and military ranks as if, somehow by magic or whatever, that these credentials make a human being incapable of common human error or renders them unable to lie. And that is just one tiny flaw in their argument out of an endless array of faulty reasoning.

If you don't accept their shoddy videos, second-hand stories, and technical aberrations as undeniable proof of aliens cruising around our planet, well then you're just 'ignorant.'

If you say "it isn't," they will simply shout "it is!" And then when you ask them to prove it, all you will get in return is a VERY empty "I already did!"

And so it goes - over and over...

UFOlogy is a faith. And, as we all know, religions don't die easy.

These folks will be around for a very long time, and I'm okay with that. It's really just an aspect of our modern society.

Sorry to be picky here but you appear to be using the terms 'UFO' and 'ET' as if they are the same thing. The op was asking about UFOs specifically.

As I've said before there is much evidence for UFO's and some of it it is better than other stuff. There is solid, concrete evidence of UFOs such as radar and photos, think the belgian triangle flap in the 1990s.

Not all UFO enthusiasts feel the need to declare every UFO as ET in origin. The fact is that there may be many different potential explanations for a UFO and a truly curious individual will explore them all. Blind faith on either side of the argument is not a good thing in my opinion.

reply to post by WilburWheately

What you will get instead is a bunch of rhetoric involving "credible witnesses," followed up on with various diplomas and military ranks as if, somehow by magic or whatever, that these credentials make a human being incapable of common human error or renders them unable to lie. And that is just one tiny flaw in their argument out of an endless array of faulty reasoning.

Well who honestly is "credible" in your mind? A military Pilot? Military General? Commercial Pilot? Person who discovered Pluto? Police? Scientists? Polticians? Aeronautical Engineer? Psychologist? Astro-Physicist? Educators?

All those people who make our society go and whom we rely on are unreliable you say? And why is that exactly? Because they witnessed something that you are unable to reconcile in your mind? Sorry but I'll go with the pilots, doctors, scientists, policemen, military personel, my aunt, the guy who discovered Pluto.. etc... over just some random skeptic on the internet who thinks he's the smartest being in the universe and thinks "there's no wayyy aliens could ever visit us without us detecting them..."

Here is the deal man. There are 3 main categories on how to solve the infamous "Fermi Paradox."

1) We are alone. There is no galactic civilization because civilizations are extremely rare. As far as we define "sentient intelligence" we are perhaps the only game in the universe thus far.

2) Civilizations are common, but no one has colonized the galaxy. If #1 doesn't work out then we are back the idea that life is common. Even intelligent life. However so far no one has gone on to travel among stars.

3) There is a galactic civilization, but we have so far been unable to disover its existence.

Those are our 3 options. If we examine them we can't help but notice that there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. If we take off our bias-goggles is it really logical to think that we are it? If not, then let's examine option #2. The thought that civilizations may come and go because of natural disasters or nuclear war (self-destruction) is becoming depressingly possible to believe given our current situation. However, we aren't really rooting for option #2 are we? What a depressing barrier for all life in the univese.

This leave us with option #3, which happens to confirm reports like the 1976 Tehran UFO and countless other solid reports. The fact that you don't have your terminator chip sounds like more of a problem with your ego to be honest....

Shouldn't it be more the lower being which reaches for the higher? If so.... then shouldn't you stop with the unfounded skepticism and write a letter to your representative IMO. Do your part in trying to uncover the mystery of UFOs instead of trying to discredit professionals when you weren't even present at any of the events in question...

As you can tell, all 3 options have profound implications for our civilzation. Your effort you spend writing here on this board could just as easily be used to write to your representative.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


You quote an open hoax (MJ12) as if it is evidence that Ufology is something more than silly discussions. Yes I know of the "Disclosure Project" but where is the real proof? All I see from them is silly interviews with nutters and dubious witness accounts. If we are expected to believe that alien races are visiting Earth then we need something more substantial than mere witness testimony.

4) Contact has been made but the contact is on a "macro" level with respect to us and if any of us know about it at all, it's only our highest ranking officials - but possibly Human civilization is in contact with an alien civilization (or civilizations) and nobody knows about it, kind of like individual cells in your body aren't aware of your daily interactions with other people.

reply to post by nh_ee


Rofl or what your mind wants to accept...a transformer blows and people claim its a Alien attack...really

reply to post by Turiddu


We are talking about ufo evidence, not ET evidence.

So.....

Can anybody link to a single video somewhere online that has never been credibly debunked, is not obviously CGI or some fully-known object, and consists of more than "lights in the sky?" Just, you know, one?

The ammount of ex and current military, private industry and high profile governemental people that have come out on this subject is huge. Only a fraction of these testimonies would be enough to put someone to death in a murder case trial.

Yeah OP, you're probably right, being a human you must know so much about the entire universe. There's no chance that there's other life besides us, because us humans are so special right? Us humans, the only creature completely destroying Earth and taking down all life on it with us. Way to go..

To me, the WOW signal is the single-best piece of evidence we have that alien life exists elsewhere and I think it's pretty compelling evidence.

reply to post by vexati0n


sorry all i got from this was " i don't believe, but i want proof, but i am not going to listen to your proof, i shall make a list which throws out all proof or evidence then i shall demand that proof"

or "nah nah nah i am not going to listen"

if you do not believe there is any evidence already with what is out there, then there is nothing anyone can show you, and i do not really see why it is anybodies job to convince you of anything. if you do not believe that is fine.
but then why bother with this subject if all the evidence is lacking to support it?

if i think something is so obviously not true, i simply do not bother with it to the point that i would demand evidence for what i think is rubbish. i would just leave those who believe to get on with it, afterall i do not know everything and could be wrong, there may even be some reason why they believe and i do not ie: personnal experiences, and who i would i be to tell them there experience was wrong when i did not even experience it.

Originally posted by WilburWheately
No. There is absolutely NO scientifically valid or testable evidence that can support the existence of visiting ETs. Conspiracy nuts will scream until they are blue in the face that there is, but there really isn't anything that can be done about that.

What you will get instead is a bunch of rhetoric involving "credible witnesses," followed up on with various diplomas and military ranks as if, somehow by magic or whatever, that these credentials make a human being incapable of common human error or renders them unable to lie. And that is just one tiny flaw in their argument out of an endless array of faulty reasoning.

If you don't accept their shoddy videos, second-hand stories, and technical aberrations as undeniable proof of aliens cruising around our planet, well then you're just 'ignorant.'

If you say "it isn't," they will simply shout "it is!" And then when you ask them to prove it, all you will get in return is a VERY empty "I already did!"

And so it goes - over and over...

UFOlogy is a faith. And, as we all know, religions don't die easy.

These folks will be around for a very long time, and I'm okay with that. It's really just an aspect of our modern society.

Exactly this. There is no proof. Someone in this thread was said words to the effect of: "if it were a murder, they would be enough evidence to convict someone" Well no, because you would need a body, as in proof of the incident. Not a blurry image of 'something'.

Also someone mentioned about there being just one link to a half decent image/video and yet there is none. A few facts to consider:

* If there was a huge conspiracy, someone somewhere would have leaked something. Humans are, after all human. Governments are made up of thousands of employees.

*If UFO's are alien craft. Why are they lit up (at night)? Surely stealth/cloaking tech would be standard for them to avoid detection.

*Most people these days have a camera. Probably 90% of people do. On their phones etc, with them 24/7. Decent cameras. Yet still no DECENT footage...

*The internet: Is for the main part uncensored. For example if I had a pic/video of a UFO. I could upload it in seconds. Without going through any 3rd parties. And everyone here could make infinite copies. This kinda ties in with my first point.

I look forward to your responses! And remember I've tried to make the distinction between UFOS/Aliens so don't winge about that. Also I love to think that they are out there. I'm not an arrogant/ignorant individual.

It's in Mythology and religions. *Sigh* fail OP.

Originally posted by Turiddu
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

You quote an open hoax (MJ12) as if it is evidence that Ufology is something more than silly discussions. Yes I know of the "Disclosure Project" but where is the real proof? All I see from them is silly interviews with nutters and dubious witness accounts. If we are expected to believe that alien races are visiting Earth then we need something more substantial than mere witness testimony.

A hoax according to the government? Of course they would say that since they want to hide the truth of the matter.

And you saying that hundreds of whistleblowers giving testimony to the disclosure project being "nutters" and giving "dubious testimony" is pathetically absurd. Of course mr greer selling books and dvds raises income for him and CSETI but it is not anywhere near enough for him to become filfthy rich.

AFAIK he was a practicing physician and did not need so much NEGATIVE attention. No body wants to touch this topic with a fifteen foot pole because it is bad for their image. CIP politicians NEVER talk about what they know and avoid the topic as much as possible. Mr Greer was a brave man to risk his reputation for so little and he has repeatedly asked congress to go over the evidence but they keep stonewalling him.

There is an abundance of evidence. Remember, Occam's Razor would suggest that out of the tens of thousands of sightings and encounters, it would be extremely unlikely that they are all delusions, hoaxes or misidentifications. So there is actually a pretty solid core of evidence that must be accepted. Unfortunately, no one can prove specifically what it is evidence of. After 60+ years, the folks attempting to make a solid connection between UFO evidence and "aliens" have failed miserably. Other notions such as time travelers, alternate realities or dimensions are very difficult to prove.

So we have a lot of admittedly weird stuff happening. But nothing that suggests a good explanation.

Notice, in the last week that this thread has sat here, not one of the skeptics that bothered to come back (like brasseye or vexation) has actually addressed any of the specific evidence that has been offered. No mention of those radar-visual cases I brought up, no specific comments on the pictures that have been pointed out, etc... just flat-out dismissal and denial, without explanation.

People are reading this thread because they're interested in UFO 'evidence', right? They want to know what, if anything, is behind it all. So what does it tell you when one side (those who think UFOs are here) is excited to keep bringing up specific evidence, and yet the other side (debunker) won't even respond, but instead just keeps falling back onto generalities? THAT, alone, should tell you where the balance of evidence lies.

I guess I should clarify my OP. I never intended to say I will toss out all evidence. It's just that most of what UFO believers count as "evidence" is actually circumstantial. Also, I did not mean to specify UFO over ET. Obviously, there are things flying around that are unfamiliar to some of the people who see them. I am not really concerned about secret military craft or weird weather balloons, though. I meant to say I would like specific evidence about flying craft that nobody has been able to identify.

I don't want to see blurry pictures, jumpy videos, or eyewitness accounts. In over half a century of people filming things, surely somebody has accidentally caught a reasonably clear image or video of "something" that is undeniably not a hoax or a prank or some misidentified but terrestrial thing. I don't mean you have to provide proof of aliens, just provide proof of anything that nobody can identify, and that has passed muster as being a non-hoax.

Not because I refuse to believe, but because I haven't seen any evidence compelling enough to tell me it's more likely there are aliens than there aren't.

Originally posted by vexati0n
In no other field of study do you find such an absolute saturation of the subject matter by frauds, hoaxes, liars, snake-oil salesmen,

Do you really think people prefer to lie prepare frauds hoaxes on UFOs more than in any other field?
Do you see any logic?

This is giving you the answer!

Originally posted by TeaAndStrumpets
Notice, in the last week that this thread has sat here, not one of the skeptics that bothered to come back (like brasseye or vexation) has actually addressed any of the specific evidence that has been offered. No mention of those radar-visual cases I brought up, no specific comments on the pictures that have been pointed out, etc... just flat-out dismissal and denial, without explanation.

People are reading this thread because they're interested in UFO 'evidence', right? They want to know what, if anything, is behind it all. So what does it tell you when one side (those who think UFOs are here) is excited to keep bringing up specific evidence, and yet the other side (debunker) won't even respond, but instead just keeps falling back onto generalities? THAT, alone, should tell you where the balance of evidence lies.

You must have missed the part where I stated there is no decent photographic evidence, I'll back this up by asking you to provide a link. Also radar, is it not just testimonies from staff manning the radar?

In fact I'll just ask you to provide me with evidence. Don't reply with a) its in abundance or b) research.

I have looked. And its not there.

Originally posted by ernesto18

Originally posted by vexati0n
In no other field of study do you find such an absolute saturation of the subject matter by frauds, hoaxes, liars, snake-oil salesmen,

Do you really think people prefer to lie prepare frauds hoaxes on UFOs more than in any other field?
Do you see any logic?

This is giving you the answer!

and this has lost me...