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Is there any evidence, really?

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:18 AM
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I mean, let's be honest. Really. Is there any actual evidence for UFOs? I haven't seen any. I've heard people talk, and I've seen weird news broadcasts in foreign languages I can't speak, and I know people who know people who know people... but I haven't actually seen any real evidence. So, if it's out there, where is it? The following do not qualify:

1. Eyewitness reports, except when accompanied by video or photographic evidence that can't be easily explained.
2. "Channeling" (lol)
3. Paintings from Medieval Europe or anywhere else.
4. Artifacts that "look like they might be construed as" aliens or astronauts or space ships or airplanes.
5. "It seems to me" or "I feel" or "My opinion is"
6. Pretty much everything else ever submitted by anyone as "evidence."

In no other field of study do you find such an absolute saturation of the subject matter by frauds, hoaxes, liars, snake-oil salesmen, or such a widespread acceptance of personal opinion, misguided intuition, or "feelings" as if they carry an ounce of authority over what the objective truth is. It isn't that I think UFOs are bunk - quite the opposite. I'm sure there are plenty of things that fly around that people are unfamiliar with. Who am I to say whether aliens are real or not?

I'm just saying that if "UFOlogy" wants to be a science, it's going to have to put its big girl panties on and be science, not a convention of crystal-power weirdos and postmodern Hippies who are 50 years late to the party. It's going to have to cough up more than shelves full of books for sale, "inconclusive" scraps of metal, Geiger counters and tourist-trap trinkets.

Do you have anything more substantial, or is it all just blurry pictures and misguided intuition?




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by vexati0n
I mean, let's be honest. Really. Is there any actual evidence for UFOs? I haven't seen any. I've heard people talk, and I've seen weird news broadcasts in foreign languages I can't speak, and I know people who know people who know people... but I haven't actually seen any real evidence. So, if it's out there, where is it? The following do not qualify:

1. Eyewitness reports, except when accompanied by video or photographic evidence that can't be easily explained.
2. "Channeling" (lol)
3. Paintings from Medieval Europe or anywhere else.
4. Artifacts that "look like they might be construed as" aliens or astronauts or space ships or airplanes.
5. "It seems to me" or "I feel" or "My opinion is"
6. Pretty much everything else ever submitted by anyone as "evidence."

In no other field of study do you find such an absolute saturation of the subject matter by frauds, hoaxes, liars, snake-oil salesmen, or such a widespread acceptance of personal opinion, misguided intuition, or "feelings" as if they carry an ounce of authority over what the objective truth is. It isn't that I think UFOs are bunk - quite the opposite. I'm sure there are plenty of things that fly around that people are unfamiliar with. Who am I to say whether aliens are real or not?

I'm just saying that if "UFOlogy" wants to be a science, it's going to have to put its big girl panties on and be science, not a convention of crystal-power weirdos and postmodern Hippies who are 50 years late to the party. It's going to have to cough up more than shelves full of books for sale, "inconclusive" scraps of metal, Geiger counters and tourist-trap trinkets.

Do you have anything more substantial, or is it all just blurry pictures and misguided intuition?


There is plenty of evidence for UFOs (unidentified flying objects). However, if you are referring to UFOs that have ETs riding around in them then I haven't ever really seen or heard of physical proof.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by vexati0n
 


Well i have a feeling this isnt going to end well...
but point 6, no evidence ever submitted by anyone, it seems like there would be little to sway you even if it was presented.
and you say:
"In no other field of study do you find such an absolute saturation of the subject matter by frauds, hoaxes, liars, snake-oil salesmen, or such a widespread acceptance of personal opinion, misguided intuition, "
well i can think of one, quantum physics... seems like thats "out there" as well," not generally accepted by every scientist out there, which is why they have so many conflicting theory's..
not that im saying the evidence offered is by any means compelling, but the same can be said of many things we take for granted.. like god..



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by vexati0n

I'm just saying that if "UFOlogy" wants to be a science, it's going to have to put its big girl panties on and be science, not a convention of crystal-power weirdos and postmodern Hippies who are 50 years late to the party.


Don't be naive, there's respected scientists who are and who have researched the field so don't try to distort the facts. Tell that to the US military who conducted projects sign, grudge, and blue book, gathered hundreds of cases but discarded the lot of them. And yeah, even 'scientists' gave them crap for that. From J. Allen Hynek, the guy with a Ph.D. in astrophysics who worked on projects sign, grudge and blue book, at the request of the U.S Air Force :



"For the government to continue to maintain that UFOs are nonexistent in the face of the documents already released and of other cogent evidence presented in this book is puerile and in a sense an insult to the American people."


And :




"Two things, really. One was the completely negative and unyielding attitude of the Air Force. They wouldn't give UFOs the chance of existing, even if they were flying up and down the street in broad daylight. Everything had to have an explanation. I began to resent that, even though I basically felt the same way, because I still thought they weren't going about it in the right way. You can't assume that everything is black no matter what. Secondly, the caliber of the witnesses began to trouble me. Quite a few instances were reported by military pilots, for example, and I knew them to be fairly well-trained, so this is when I first began to think that, well, maybe there was something to all this."


en.wikipedia.org...

Have a read around on the guy, he was a skeptic at first and helped the military debunk, but not after he found out what was being reported.

Go and ask the governments and militaries to grow some big girl panties. Yeah, let's be honest.

Here's another crystal powered wierdo for you, Jacques Vallee :


In 1967, Vallée received a Ph.D. in computer science from Northwestern University. While at the Institute for the Future from 1972 to 1976 he was a principal investigator on the large NSF project for computer networking, which developed the first conferencing system, Planning Network (PLANET), on the ARPANET many years before the Internet was formed.

He has also served on the National Advisory Committee of the University of Michigan College of Engineering and was involved in early work on artificial intelligence.


en.wikipedia.org...

Or Friedman?




Friedman graduated from Linden High School and the University of Chicago, earning a Bachelor of Science (1955) and Master of Science (1956) degree in nuclear physics.

Friedman was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for such companies as General Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas where he worked on advanced, classified programs on nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and compact nuclear power plants for space applications.


en.wikipedia.org...

Check their wiki pages, then check their own sites, etc. Do some research before judging.
edit on 16-5-2011 by robhines because: (no reason given)


Mod Note : Posting work written by others.– Please Review This Link.

edit on 16-5-2011 by xpert11 because: Mod note , add external source tags



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:41 AM
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The question people want answered is are we alone, not what vehicle they use. The evidence you have are logs of conversation between PROFESSIONAL pilots and PROFESSIONAL tower operators, sighting and relaying back and forth its something they have never seen and something they couldnt imagine we could do in 100yrs.

Their are a few documents leaked lately about the rosewell conspieracy, stateing between CIA director and top CIA field officer that they have something outta this world.

I am 50/50 on if aliens exist, or the government has the technoligy Hitler was willing to give his life and country to obtain. The Power To Be keeps everything else priceless to themselves why not vehicles that can get you from China to the U.S. in Minutes even seconds. The best way to cover something up is Chain Of Command. If you dont need to know to perform your duty, you dont need to know.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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Remember the Giant Squid?
en.wikipedia.org...

There were Middle Age legends, it had been reported, but we just couldn't believe they were real, because there was no real evidence of it, just drawings and mariner tales. Until we eventually caught one.

I think UFOs will follow more or less the same way.

Until then, I agree with you.

Although I think "foreign languages I cant speak" is not exactly a reason.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by vexati0n
 




Is there any evidence, really?
Physical evidence? No.

Any type of evidence? Yes.



Direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion (in criminal law, an assertion of guilt or of innocence) directly, i.e., without an intervening inference.[1] Circumstantial evidence, by contrast, directly supports the truth of evidence, from which the truth of the assertion may be inferred.

For example: a witness who testifies that he saw the defendant shoot the victim gives direct evidence. A forensics expert who says that ballistics proves that the defendant’s gun shot the bullet that killed the victim gives circumstantial evidence, from which B’s guilt may be inferred.

secure.wikimedia.org...


Do you really think a super-advanced alien race is going to make it easy to acquire physical proof of their existence, when they are obviously trying to remain hidden? And then if some one does manage to get hold of a physical alien artifact, do you really think certain organizations aren't going to sweep it under the rug? It's not as simple as you would make it out to be. There is a # load of "evidence" to support the theory of alien visitation, together it forms a body of evidence that any rational person would have an extremely hard time denying. Skeptics who cry their is no evidence, clearly indicates they haven't done enough research on the subject. The only thing that will convince you is a UFO landing on thew white house lawn, it doesn't matter how many mass sightings happen, what type of people testify to witnessing them or their craft, or how well the whole account was documented. There is nothing. So why don't you just give us all a break and do some real research before making a thread that has been created at least one thousand times over.


edit on 16-5-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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OP is so ignorant I don't know why I wasted my time. Like I said, do some research.

And there's even a flag for the thread, you do some research too.
edit on 16-5-2011 by robhines because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by vexati0n
 


Why start a thread in something you dont even believe in ?

The debate is over for me ... i have no interest in debating whether theyre real or not .. and would far rather spend my time discussing why theyre here .. not IF ...

When i see a thread on something i dont even believe in .. i just skip past it .. and prefer to go to threads containing info on stuff i actually believe in ... or am interested in

Seems from your first post, you have no intention of believing, unless an alien beams you up to their flying saucer and probes your orifices with their super magical orifice probing instruments ...
So whats the point in starting a thread in something you dont believe in, and by the looks of it, are completely unlikely to be swayed, by the end of the thread ....

Don't see what is to be 'gained' from creating a thread discussing something you dont believe in ... other than for others to come in, and debate .. and we go round in circles .. like every single other debate on this subject has always done, with no final resolution ..

This is an utterly pointless thread in my view OP ... Looks like youre scraping the bottom of the barrel on this one for your S+F's


edit on 16-5-2011 by Segenam because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 05:28 AM
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Oh come on go easy! everyone wants to believe in Aliens. Its just hard when any type of video or ppicture comes out they always get proven fake! There only 1 video i remember seeing and thinking that could be it. Was that hmm nelis air base ufo video. But even with that theres a problem because we can't confirm the source.
another thing that is frustrating about this field is the total denial of it by the government and how it gets belittled by the MSN. All you really have to go on is trusting what people say they saw. Obviously if anyone had concrete proof everyone would believe(well most i would assume). I am "believer" but think its going to take divine intervention for dis-closer, and sadly i don't believe in god soo...



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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Dear all

Just want to share this info I found in the blog. This is the link of the blog: kilodua.blogspot.com...

I've never seen the strage object smiliar with UFO yet. But there are so many people claimed that they have seen this thing. Any comment?

Regards

Pengakuan



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 06:44 AM
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No offence but your question and title of your thread comes across as ignorant in the most literal sense of the word as you have obviously overlooked so much.

Of course there is evidence, tons of it. I like many others on this forum have read anything and everything on the subject for many many years.

The crux of the matter is that all evidence is not created equal. Some of it's bad, some of it's even worse, most of it is mediocre and a small fraction of it is extremely compelling. Unfortunately you are the one that has to find and assess all this evidence and determine what percentage of it is worth your trouble. No one else is going to do it for you.

Even some of the most well respected thinkers of our time like Steve Hawking have dismissed the entire UFO phenomena without investigation. In his words "I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?" So you're not alone in your opinion.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Foo fighters from ww2.
That's plenty of evidence right there. It wasn't American, and wasn't German, no one knew what they were, but there is plenty of footage and reports about them.
UFO's are real, just a question of what they are.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by vexati0n
 


There is more than enough evidence that something odd is flying in our air-space. Like i said before, militery sighting alone justifies a serious study into the subject. Where the evidence is lacking, is th "ET" explanation. But to say there is no evidence for ufo's (as in ufo cases that are unexplained) well, the only conclusion i can come up with is you know very little about th subject. I don't mean to insult you, but you really need to look into the subject before you start a thread like this, because you will not last 5 mins.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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It's a difficult discussion wether there is evidence or not. Some see UFO's in different type of clouds while others say they wouldn't believe in any ET's, even when they would land in front of the White House. Evidence is always a thing of everyone's own perception and faith!



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by vexati0n
 




1. Eyewitness reports, except when accompanied by video or photographic evidence that can't be easily explained.


That would be ideal, but unreasonable. We can't simply ignore a sighting simply because there's no pictures. Determining the credibility of an eyewitness and the validity of their sighting is a part of the investigation for any UFO investigator who values their reputation. Most of the hoaxes are exposed relatively quickly.



2. "Channeling" (lol)


Agreed.



3. Paintings from Medieval Europe or anywhere else.


On their own, I don't think the Medieval paintings stand as evidence. On the other hand, there are strong similarities between between the description of modern UFOs and the UFO-like objects seen in the paintings. They corroborate each other. There were no cameras back then. So they painted it.



4. Artifacts that "look like they might be construed as" aliens or astronauts or space ships or airplanes


Again, there were no cameras back then. The records they left behind of what they saw are in the form of artwork - paintings, sculptures, architecture - as well as literature. That's all they had. We're lucky to even have that.



5. "It seems to me" or "I feel" or "My opinion is"


These phrases denote personal opinion and have never been considered as evidence.



6. Pretty much everything else ever submitted by anyone as "evidence."


It seems the only evidence you'll accept is a picture of an alien taking a crap in your front yard. Don't be so dismissive.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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the evidences are not obvious.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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Yep, completely agree with the first post: there is no evidence. All the replies saying "look for it" are basically saying if you look hard enough - you'll see it. Like a magic eye picture. Evidence surely must consist of actual footage/material. True there is 100's of clips of 'UFO's' - but they're all horrendously captured. In this day and age, when just about everyone has a camera phone, someone somewhere must have caught decent footage? But nope, no one has.

I'd love to be proven wrong. I really would.

I do think that they are out there, and very probably aware of us. I'm just saying theres no proof.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by brasseye
Yep, completely agree with the first post: there is no evidence. All the replies saying "look for it" are basically saying if you look hard enough - you'll see it. Like a magic eye picture. Evidence surely must consist of actual footage/material. True there is 100's of clips of 'UFO's' - but they're all horrendously captured. In this day and age, when just about everyone has a camera phone, someone somewhere must have caught decent footage? But nope, no one has.

I'd love to be proven wrong. I really would.

I do think that they are out there, and very probably aware of us. I'm just saying theres no proof.



So multiple witnesess and radar evidence in the same case is not classed as evidence? And i would also like to add that these two combanations have happened in a few militery cases. Now, im not saying that these are ET, but surely you have to realise that when it comes to ufo's, there is alot of evidence that something odd is flying in our air-space. Be it secret militery projects,ET, natuaral phenomenon etc, its still there, and been documented with evidence in many cases.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Educated guesses on whether or not this video is a fake, would totally light my fire!
I dont know if Im naive or not. But it looks real enough to me.

www.youtube.com...

Also, I would like to quote some interesting comments from the video:


@YourMadTourGuide Not that hard?. Are you kidding me? Dude i've been working w/3dsMax & Maya for 3 & 1/2 years. Modeling the craft, texturing it, animating its movements, creating the lensflare, animating that, & editing said lensflare to move flawlessly behind the powerlines.. Dude that's a #LOAD of extremely tedious & painstaking work for any1, & that's just a small portion of the animation shown in this vid... I'm pretty sure your just talking out of your ass & shouldn't be taken seriously

Sup3rShann0n 3 months ago 2
Reply
@YourMadTourGuide Agreed...? I never said anything about it being fake... In fact i said the exact opposite. I don't know how you misunderstood what i was implying but my thoughts were the lighting effect of the blue beam being animated, & then edited to pass behind the power lines is an EXTREMELY difficult technique to be wasted on a youtube UFO hoax... that just seems like a colossal waste of time. I will say this is NOT the original audio, but the video itself, i can't spot any tampering

Sup3rShann0n 3 months ago



I like many of you Im sure, have seen tons of UFO videos online. These lights seem familiar, and it does not ring FAKE to me at all. I believe these lights to be one of three, with strong emphasis on the first option:
1. An alien technology (FFS)
2. Advanced, secret human technology
3. A computer animated hoax!

Am I just being gullible here?

I mean.
-We live in a f´in ENORMOUS universe.
-We know theres alot of planets out there who resembles our atmosphere on earth.
-Why the hell should we be alone out here? Does the premise life END when we exit our own atmosphere? Isnt the universe just another part of nature too?

And if were NOT alone..
Does it seem logical to you that ALL life in the universe is JUST as intelligent and advanced as EVERY one else?
NO! If theres advanced life forms out there, some of them probably evolved MILLIONS of years before us. Some of the life out there is waaay behind us too, I would think!

Does babies know everything adults have learned? Of course not!

I think were total babies. And theres some serious grown ups out there, here, ALL OVER.

Sorry for the CAPS!

edit on 16-5-2011 by starchild84 because: Link.

edit on 16-5-2011 by starchild84 because: Adding more thoughts.

edit on 16-5-2011 by starchild84 because: Fixed errors.

edit on 16-5-2011 by starchild84 because: Fixings.




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