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Chemtrail debunkers and their agenda

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posted on May, 18 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
And one more thing from the research I have done I know what goverments are capable of especially mine. ESPECIALLY MINE!!! so to say that they can;t or wouldn;t do this is grossly underestimating them.


no one is saying they can't do it.

The point is that there is no evidence that they ARE doing it.

specifically the so-called evidence that airliners are spraying something that looks exactly like persistent contrails but is actually something else simply does not exist.

And there's no effort made by the believers to actually find proper evidence either - no attempts to sample contrails, no attempts to sample jet fuel, a few attempts t sample "rain water" or "air" have been shown to be faulty to the point of being fraudulent (ie they claim levels are in water when they are actually in dirt, or in air when they are actually in dust), etc.

So there's heaps of ways for people to prove that something is happening if it is - but none of them can do it.




posted on May, 18 2011 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher



Nobody does anything about it. Nobody wears masks when they go outside, they just breath this air that they claim is saturated with deadly chemicals
reply to post by network dude
 


So what about the people who eat the food that they know is bad for them. The GMO's that are in the food. Whata bout when you take a shower and the fluoride is there..

People are not whining ! about it. they are trying to bribng it tyo the attention of others Just lijke people with the federla reserve. Just with the people with the kenedy assasination. Are they whiners just because they know Oswald didn;t do it!!!


no. A definitive test could be done by taking air samples at altitude. If that was done and proven to contain something other than aircraft exhaust, then the whole chemtrail movement would have a leg to stand on. But until then, it's a bunch of whiners complaining. They complain that "they" are spraying them, then they take their families outside and breath the air.

If you think the GMO foods are dangerous, don't eat them. If you think that driving south after 7:00pm is forbidden by the god of thunder, then don't drive south in the evening. But don't talk all about the bad things, then ignore them. It makes you seem like you don't believe this crap either. Like it's just for show on ATS.

Chemtrailers are talkers. Nothing more. They will never get off their asses and DO anything. It's too easy to keep talking about it and posting pictures of clouds claiming they are the boogyman. There are plenty of things to worry about these days, inventing things to fear is just plain stupid.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 06:23 AM
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It's interesting how there's a core group of the same people who pile onto any thread about stratospheric aerosol spraying and use their familiar tactics. Personally, if there's a topic I believe is bunkum, I just don't bother with it. If others want to discuss it, that's fine with me.

Wht's curious about the regular debunkers is that they are willing to waste so much time and effort arguing about it, as though they have some kind of agenda, rather than just live and let live and accept that different people have different points of view.

Another tactic I've noticed is that of feigning genuine interest, and seemingly 'innocently' asking for information...the sole purpose of which is to ridicule anything which may be presented.

You can spot them, they are regulars on these threads, yet they keep asking for this information and that, even though they've done exactly the same on a previous thread.

I don't give a damn whether those debunkers believe in stratospheric aerosol spraying or not. What bugs me is that they won't tolerate anyone else having a different point of view to them.

Behind the mask, some, of course, work for TPTB as paid agents. For others it's a kind of sport - aka as bullying. They are the kind of people who love ridiculing others and jump on board at the first opportunity, just for the 'sport', and that's the kind of mentality I personally loathe and despise.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
It's interesting how there's a core group of the same people who pile onto any thread about stratospheric aerosol spraying and use their familiar tactics. Personally, if there's a topic I believe is bunkum, I just don't bother with it. If others want to discuss it, that's fine with me.

Wht's curious about the regular debunkers is that they are willing to waste so much time and effort arguing about it, as though they have some kind of agenda, rather than just live and let live and accept that different people have different points of view.

Another tactic I've noticed is that of feigning genuine interest, and seemingly 'innocently' asking for information...the sole purpose of which is to ridicule anything which may be presented.

You can spot them, they are regulars on these threads, yet they keep asking for this information and that, even though they've done exactly the same on a previous thread.

I don't give a damn whether those debunkers believe in stratospheric aerosol spraying or not. What bugs me is that they won't tolerate anyone else having a different point of view to them.

Behind the mask, some, of course, work for TPTB as paid agents. For others it's a kind of sport - aka as bullying. They are the kind of people who love ridiculing others and jump on board at the first opportunity, just for the 'sport', and that's the kind of mentality I personally loathe and despise.


Again with the ignorant rhetoric.

If you have no evidence you have nothing to add. Period.

You don't know anything about any of us, and such accusations are offensive and childish.

If you loathe and despise people defending their various professions from the ignorance of these "chemtrail" believers, then do show us the error in anything we have put forth.

Otherwise, keep your accusations to yourself.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by GringoViejo


Again with the ignorant rhetoric.

If you have no evidence you have nothing to add. Period.

You don't know anything about any of us, and such accusations are offensive and childish.

If you loathe and despise people defending their various professions from the ignorance of these "chemtrail" believers, then do show us the error in anything we have put forth.

Otherwise, keep your accusations to yourself.


Thanks but I don't need your permission to express my thoughts here. I stand by what I've said. What profession are you defending? The right to poison people en masse? Because that's the only thing which is being criticised on these threads.

I loathe and despise bullying, yes. I absolutely stand by that. Bullying is one of the characterisctics of the criminal dictatorship government now in the US. And, yes, I despise bullying.

I know nothing about you other than what is posted on ATS, it's true. And that cuts both ways, but the debunkers here constantly throw insults and insinuations about the pepole who believe this is happening. They know nothing about other members either, but it doesn't stop the constant abuse which gets hurled in these threads.

I have evidence of what I said, I have plenty of evidence showing regular debunkers who pile onto threads about chemtrails, I have evidence of insults, personal attacks and bullying constantly in these threads. The evidence is there, in all the chemtrail threads. You obviously didn't look for it.

So, as far as ignorant rhetoric goes, just look in the mirror.

Have a nice day.




edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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It is unbelievable that after watching some of the chemtrail pictures there are still people who say....nothing ordinairy going on there.

No matter the reason or what the content of these trails are.....something is going on. With all respect, people who have seen the pictures and insist of denying something is not normal in the sky are.....plain stupid, fools, not able to think for themselves, idiots or liers.

An other ATS member wrote it is amazing how some people put much energy and effort to debunk the believers and he is right. What can be so motivating to play stupid.....?



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


You accuse people here *successfully* debunking the "chemtrail" hoax as being paid by TPTB, and you think we don't find that ignorant?



Re-read the threads, look at who is actually calling names and making baseless accusatory claims. I will give you a hint, usually the people doing it never have any evidence to back up their claims.



So again, keep your accusations to yourself.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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It is precisely this that one can read between the lines regarding their expression that you have no evidence for your claim, you should be quiet! It is petty and pathetic nothing and the whole thing clearly shows that their intent is quite different from developing the subject bring something being investigated around the world right now, which is what contains the chemtrail why do they exist, etc. It is better that a fool is silence and hide their stupidity than to open your mouth and dispel all doubts. In this case, debunkers-shut up!



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by zatara
It is unbelievable that after watching some of the chemtrail pictures there are still people who say....nothing ordinairy going on there.

No matter the reason or what the content of these trails are.....something is going on. With all respect, people who have seen the pictures and insist of denying something is not normal in the sky are.....plain stupid, fools, not able to think for themselves, idiots or liers.

An other ATS member wrote it is amazing how some people put much energy and effort to debunk the believers and he is right. What can be so motivating to play stupid.....?


Another example of name calling and accusations in lieu of evidence.

I expected as much.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by stavis
It is precisely this that one can read between the lines regarding their expression that you have no evidence for your claim, you should be quiet! It is petty and pathetic nothing and the whole thing clearly shows that their intent is quite different from developing the subject bring something being investigated around the world right now, which is what contains the chemtrail why do they exist, etc. It is better that a fool is silence and hide their stupidity than to open your mouth and dispel all doubts. In this case, debunkers-shut up!


Um, no.

We will be quiet when you have even a shred of evidence. No one is trying to stop anyone from investigating anything. Which wouldn't be hard, given the fact none of you do.

By all means, gather evidence, research.

If you ever find anything, by all means present it.

But i guess we will have to deal with name calling and ignorant accusations until you have any thing of substance to add to your own theories.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by GringoViejo
 


You have not put up ONE SINGLE FACT that debunks chemtrails
so what is your point of debunking?
that question clearly have an answer- please let us have it...please...



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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Text of H.R. 2977 [107th]: Space Preservation Act of 2001



SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

thomas.loc.gov...:h2977:



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by stavis
reply to post by GringoViejo
 


You have not put up ONE SINGLE FACT that debunks chemtrails
so what is your point of debunking?
that question clearly have an answer- please let us have it...please...




Every "chemtrailer" has been answered already countless times, and every piece of evidence already debunked. Use your damn search option.

You obviously haven't read many of the threads.

You have no argument, so all you can do is accuse and attack.





posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by stavis

Text of H.R. 2977 [107th]: Space Preservation Act of 2001



SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;

(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;

(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or

(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

thomas.loc.gov...:h2977:


Again, use your search option, and actually read the threads. Your ignorance is not an excuse to spam ATS something that has been discussed and explained countless times.



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by stavis
 


spam? I am simply showing you something that you need to see. Also if you already have seen this and other releated stuff to chemtrails why are you keep nagging on? what is your goal? I want to find out everything there is to know about chemtrails and you?
peace



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by stavis
reply to post by stavis
 


spam? I am simply showing you something that you need to see. Also if you already have seen this and other releated stuff to chemtrails why are you keep nagging on? what is your goal? I want to find out everything there is to know about chemtrails and you?
peace


Yes, spam.

That has been discussed an explained countless times.

Again, the search option

Deny Ignorance


edit on 18-5-2011 by GringoViejo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by zatara
It is unbelievable that after watching some of the chemtrail pictures there are still people who say....nothing ordinairy going on there.


Depends whether you consider the modern obsession with air travel ordinary or not


Personally I'd sooner not see the bloomin' things but short of blowing up an Icelandic volcano there's little I can do except encourage folk to follow my lead and not fly.

Not sure why it makes any difference calling a contrail and chemtrail, but if it helps discourage you all from flying, so be it



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by stavis
 


Our goal as debunkers is to stop the ignorance.
Everytimes some one brings up HR2977, it only shows that you have not read the bill, applied some logic to it, understood the context of the word "chemtrails" within it, understand who the authors were and what their agenda is, understood that the HR2977 didn't make it to the floor as originally written, understood that the Rep. whose name is on it tried to distance himself from it (apparently he doesn't read everything his name gets put on; that makes him look foolish at least), understood that this forum has a search feature and it has been discussed ad nauseum here already, and understand the posting the same thing over and over again does not make it any more important or real than the first time it was presented.
It really only makes you look foolish.
So, what do you believe makes HR 2977 so important? Because it uses the word "chemtrail"? So? So does Contrail Science. They use the word quite a lot. And they don't even put it in " " like I do. Does that make "chemtrails" real? No. Does that mean Contrail Science believes there is "chemtrails"? No. Just using a word does not mean that it is real, works, or is being done now.
Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real.Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real. Fairys are real.
There by using the same logic, fairies are now real, right? I said they were, I used the word a lot. IF I will continue to write "fairy" everyday of my life ten times, then I can keep believing fairies are real. So should you? I have no more proof that fairies are real than you have proof "chemtrails" are real. If I Google "fairy photographs" I get 6,020,000 hits on Google Images. Other people must think fairies are real. There are books about fairies being real. There are all kinds of stories that real people have seen real fairies.
By not presenting something actually tested, with repeatable results, that other people can test and get the same results, or presenting a real bonifide fairy, I can still believe fairies are real. And if you disagree, you are a troll, disinfo agent, shill, liar, murderer, and want to push your own NFW (No Fairy World) agenda. When I find other people who independently believe fairies are real, no one has any right to try to prove us wrong, ever. To do so is insulting, demeaning, hate-filled and ignorant. They should be banned from commenting on anythiing us fairy believers say. Because fairies are real. Just look. Just because you see "dandelion seeds" floating in the air means you are just too dumb, stupid, brainwashed, sock-pocket, sheeple because I know they are fairy sperm. Prove to me they aren't.

So goes the logic of the believers in "chemtrails".



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by GringoViejo
reply to post by wcitizen
 


You accuse people here *successfully* debunking the "chemtrail" hoax as being paid by TPTB, and you think we don't find that ignorant?




No, what I find ignorant is that I clearly said SOME people are TPTB employees and you have twisted that to insinuate, dishonestly, that I said all debunkers are TSPB emplyees, which is not at all what I said. That's ignorance in my book.

And, actually, the dishonest, deliberate twisting of what someone says is typical of what many debunkers do.




Re-read the threads,




Nope, I feel no need to re-read the threads.



look at who is actually calling names and making baseless accusatory claims. I will give you a hint, usually the people doing it never have any evidence to back up their claims.



So again, keep your accusations to yourself.


Let me repeat it because you don't seem to be comprehending this. . You're not in a position to tell me what to say or what not to say or what I can or can't express, here or anywhere else.

In fact, you seem to have a problem with comprehension, because if not, you would have seen that my post was specifically referring to a small group of debunkers who jump on all the 'chemtrail' threads with the only aim of disrupting, insulting, and ridiculing others who have a different point of view from them...or in some cases, perhaps, from the gubberment.

There are many other members who genuinely want to explore the issue, they may agree or disagree with the existence of chemtrails, but they're here to genuinely discuss and explore the issue, and those discussions can often be enriching and are never a problem for me, at least, on the contrary.

The problem is that that kind of discussion is too often sabotaged by the same small group of those who simply won't tolerate others having a different point of view to their own.




















edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
Let me repeat it because you don't seem to be comprehending this. . You're not in a position to tell me what to say or what not to say or what I can or can't express, here or anywhere else.

In fact, you seem to have a problem with comprehension, because if not, you would have seen that my post was specifically referring to a small group of debunkers who jump on all the 'chemtrail' threads with the only aim of disrupting, insulting, and ridiculing others who have a different point of view from them...or in some cases, perhaps, from the gubberment.

There are many other members who genuinely want to explore the issue, they may agree or disagree with the existence of chemtrails, but they're here to genuinely discuss and explore the issue, and those discussions can often be enriching and are never a problem for me, at least, on the contrary.

The problem is that that kind of discussion is too often sabotaged by the same small group of those who simply won't tolerate others having a different point of view to their own.


Why don't you just ignore them? Look how much you wrote. It seems like your time would be much better spend in finding a way to effectively present the evidence you have.

I'd be happy to explore the issue with you. Has there been any scientific statement made by a debunker that is wrong?







 
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