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Chemtrail debunkers and their agenda

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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Are you confused?

I ask that because you have me confused.

You see, the person who claims that something (unusual or odd) EXISTS is the person required to provide evidence. Like the old thing about if I say I have an invisible unicorn in my garage, you can't prove that I don't (except for the fact that I personally don't have a garage, haha). The non-existence of something can't really be proven, and that's just not the way things work. Now, if I do say that I have an invisible unicorn in my (non-existent) garage, you're entitled to say "Prove it." And if I can't come up with any evidence, such as invisible unicorn scat, you're entitled to not believe me and say so. It would make no real sense to any reasoning, thinking, logical person for me to say "I've proved that I have an invisible unicorn because you can't prove that I don't." That doesn't work. The same is true of aliens, ghosts, sasquatch, telepathy, or just about any other "alternative topic" you can think of, including chemtrails. It's on the people who say there ARE chemtrails to provide proof. Those who don't believe in chemtrails do NOT have to prove they don't exist.

If you're going to state a theory, hypothesis, or even a fact, it's on you to provide something called evidence. Otherwise anyone and everyone are justified in happily ignoring your theory or whatever, or disagreeing with it on the basis of lack of evidence. Your so-called debunkers are just people who aren't convinced by the (lack of) evidence for chemtrails, and that's that. There is no agenda except the agenda of people who want to convince everyone that we are all constantly being sprayed by harmful chemicals from airplanes... and that is an "agenda" that I simply can not comprehend.

Instead of making whiny threads trying to discredit people who don't believe in chemtrails for perfectly good reasons (such as lack of any real evidence) why don't you go do something potentially productive like go on a bigfoot hunt or try to get a nice clear photo of a UFO?




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


Heres REAL proof. Im sure you dont want to see it for what it is,but its the truth.Who needs chemtrails,when you have this.......




edit on 16-5-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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I'm a chemtrailer debunker because I'm paid to debunk chemtrailers and make them look stupid. I work for the CIA and sometimes debunk HAARP for Mossad.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by Logman
 


You forgot the Masons too.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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It's obvious that the OP is right and has a point.

Once again the debunkers come in here and list there usual sites that prove nothing against the existence of Chemtrails.

link contrailscience all you want it's still propaganda. Ohh.. and link a site with a bunch of cropped images of contrails ...cause that's proof that Chemtrails don't exist....

.....really pitifully sad debunkers

If you are not a Skywatcher and look at the sky constantly ...then GTFO of this conversation.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by dplum517

If you are not a Skywatcher and look at the sky constantly ...then GTFO of this conversation.


I have a question for the "skywatchers". In my area (rural eastern NC) I see an occasional contrail chemtrail in the sky and wonder why my area isn't as important as some of the other areas here. If I am lucky enough to see one or two, that's all it usually is. My sky doesn't get clouded over like some of these people claim. Why is that?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Not sure man....

Maybe ...just as you said they don't do it like they do in other spots.

I will have to find the PDF...but according to the DoE there were certain states designated as "Test" states for weather modification.

A lot of them were western states.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Woodworkers, what's their agenda?

Why would they spend all that time in a workshop, days sometimes, making crappy chairs and boxes, when they could just buy it from the store?

Stamp collectors, what's their agenda?

Why would people collect stamps that they are not going to use? It makes no sense!

I'm a debunker. It's a hobby. I don't have agenda, but I do have a set of guidelines that I think should be followed. The first few are:



Tell the Truth

Don’t lie. Lies are evil. Lies will come back to hurt you. Lies are wrong. Don’t lie.

Don’t hide facts. If something conflicts with your theory, then change or expand the theory. If you hide a fact, it’s going to come up later. Be honest now, and you’ll be safe later.

Be polite.

Insulting people just polarizes them. Even perceived insults will have this effect. Telling someone they are “stupid”, “retarded”, or even that they “need to do more research”, is entirely unhelpful to progress. We are trying to get out the bunk, and if you insult people then they will just cling to their bunk tighter.

Of course there will be people who reject your ideas, no matter how you present them, polite or not. But always remember you have a greater audience than the person you are ostensibly discussing with. Part of that greater audience might be convinced, even if the individual is not.

Have a Thick Skin

People will insult you. They will call you stupid, evil, ignorant, a shill. They might even threaten you. Do not let this get to you, and do not let it tempt you to respond in kind. Being perceived as angry will only provide a distraction from what you are saying.


There's more:

metabunk.org...

And I suppose the closest thing I have to an "agenda" is this:

metabunk.org...



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by dplum517

If you are not a Skywatcher and look at the sky constantly ...then GTFO of this conversation.


I have a question for the "skywatchers". In my area (rural eastern NC) I see an occasional contrail chemtrail in the sky and wonder why my area isn't as important as some of the other areas here. If I am lucky enough to see one or two, that's all it usually is. My sky doesn't get clouded over like some of these people claim. Why is that?


One or two per day? How many days have you been watching?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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Scientists have long known that the vigorous injection of gas and ash into the stratosphere can cause changes in global weather patterns and climate by reflecting sunlight away from Earth and heating the upper atmosphere.
hvo.wr.usgs.gov...



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by binkbonk
 


You should quote the whole thing so people know what "long known" means

hvo.wr.usgs.gov...


Scientists have long known that the vigorous injection of gas and ash into the stratosphere can cause changes in global weather patterns and climate by reflecting sunlight away from Earth and heating the upper atmosphere. Diplomat-scientist Benjamin Franklin speculated about these effects following the 1783 Laki eruption in Iceland, which caused "a constant fog over all Europe, and a great part of North America" for several months. After the largest observed eruption in recorded history—the 1815 eruption of Indonesia's Tambora volcano—New England and parts of Europe experienced a "year without a summer" as ash circled the globe in 1816.


People have long known about the greenhouse effect of CO2 as well:

en.wikipedia.org...


The greenhouse effect was discovered by Joseph Fourier in 1824, first reliably experimented on by John Tyndall in 1858, and first reported quantitatively by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.


Interesting stuff, but what was your point there?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


I look up most of the time I am outside to see if I can spot a real live chemtrail. I have been studying here on ATS for a while now, and I see lots of pictures of "chemtrails" but I just cannot seem to find one that I cannot brush off as being a contrail. I go to the beach and see the same thing. A few here and there, but I never get to see the sky filled with tic-tac-toe grids. Are the people in eastern NC not important enough to poison? Is our area not affected by global warming? Don't we need spider like webs falling from the sky like other places? I feel left out.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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I wanted to have a dialogue with the debunkers and why the debunking has become a sport? Of course it's always good to be back to what you say with facts of different kinds. BUT it is not always there is evidence available which in itself does not mean you are wrong in a theory or argument.
IF you need everything to be supported by fresh facts BEFORE these debunkers will understand the truth of chemtrails can quickly see that this reasoning does not belong in an intelligent world. They say in other words: It has no factual evidence becomes debunks. ok then, then you can debunks almost everything is discussed on ATS, the question I ask myself then what do these debunkers on ATS? of course you should be able to discuss various issues and theories without being attacked by small-minded comments that suggests that they are incompetent or downright stupid.
Also another reason for making this thread was that I wanted to prove the intelligence level of these debunkers have, without hesitation, throws himself a number of these in the thread and will defend their idiotic argumentative but for a moment to understand that they reveal themselves as debunkers. Some keep a low profile and wraps things to ruin interesting threads. BUT now they stepped forward with lightning speed.

edit on 16-5-2011 by stavis because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by stavis because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


It's quite possible you get them less than other areas because of the climate, and where the upper air comes from in NC.

Have a look a the contrail forecast:

www-angler.larc.nasa.gov...

It has historical data - maybe go back through a few days, and see if your area tends not to have the right conditions. (Use the "Realtime Forecast" link).

It would also be interesting to see if other people in your approximate region share the same perception. A search for North Carolina Chemtrails returns several results, including some video.

What about this for example?

www.rense.com...
edit on 16-5-2011 by Uncinus because: spelling



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


that picture is kind of my point. If I see 1 or 2 trails in the sky, that isn't going to block out the sun, hide Niburu, blanket my area with morgelions fibers, or cool the average daily temperature.

BTW, don't read too much into this, I am using a bit of sarcasm to point out the preposterousness of the chemtrail theory. I think they are contrails too.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by binkbonk
 



Interesting stuff, but what was your point there?

My point? My point is that you sure have a lot of time to spend on the internet, saving us from ourselves by "debunking" our "memories". I think you are a shill. Prove you're not.

WHY TALK ABOUT IT IF IT DOESN'T EXIST?


Geoengineering describes activities specifically and deliberately designed to effect a change in the global climate with the aim of minimising or reversing anthropogenic (that is human caused) climate change. Geoengineering covers many techniques and technologies but splits into two broad categories: those that remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere such as sequestering and locking carbon dioxide in geological formations; and those that reflect solar radiation. Techniques in this category include the injection of sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere to mimic the cooling effect caused by large volcanic eruptions.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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So Have any of the debunkers watched the Documentary what in the world are they spraying?? I mean there is nothing but scientist in that film. I mean it would be boring to most people with just all the information they put out in it. But again for the debunkers can you do your own selfr made test of the sky and see that there is alumina in the sky.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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If I told you that I was made of steel, would you want proof? If you asked for proof, and then I said "prove I'm not made of steel!" wouldn't you think I'm being a bit silly?

There are trails of SOMETHING in the air, NOBODY is questioning that. This is fact.

What exactly is in those trails is the question, and nobody has provided any evidence. I want someone to fly up behind a chemtrail, get an air sample, and test it. Nobody has done that. Why I wonder?

Or documents from the government stating "we are spraying deadly chemicals all over the world to kill people off" This has not come out yet.

I'm not a debunker, I am just someone who is looking for TRUTH. So I will ask questions that challenge what someone is saying, because there is no other way to get to the truth unless you question.

You seem to be against people that want facts and evidence. Well that's fine, but don't act surprised when people don't take your idea serious, if you have no evidence to back it up. I've watched every video and read every page that people have posted in the chemtrail threads I've read, and not a single one had any sort of evidence whatsoever.

I also find it funny that you talk about how debunkers resort to insults, yet you are doing the same thing. Calling someone a shill, disinfo agent, etc is an insult too, you know. If you are going to call people out of on something, it should be something you don't do yourself.

I'm still waiting for evidence. I'm not saying chemtrails DON'T exists, I'm just saying I have seen no evidence, so I'm not going to jump to conclusions. And no, lines in the sky are not evidence, because there is perfectly logical and accurate reasons of what those are, being contrails. And I don't think you deny that contrails exist do you? So where's the evidence of them being CHEMtrails?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
So Have any of the debunkers watched the Documentary what in the world are they spraying?? I mean there is nothing but scientist in that film. I mean it would be boring to most people with just all the information they put out in it. But again for the debunkers can you do your own selfr made test of the sky and see that there is alumina in the sky.


I've watched it, and I debunk it here:

contrailscience.com...

Their science is wrong, yet they refuse to address the many mistake.

On the other hand, if you see an error in my debunking, I'd be very happy to issue a correction.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by binkbonk
My point? My point is that you sure have a lot of time to spend on the internet, saving us from ourselves by "debunking" our "memories". I think you are a shill. Prove you're not.


Assume I am, it makes no difference.

Then show where I'm wrong. I'll post an admission and correction.




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