Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

reply to post by 547000


So, show me the proof? If this is all real, then certainly there is proof. You ask science to prove, and time and again it has. Yet there is no proof of your beliefs. Once again, I challenge your "god". Make me a multimillionaire in seven days and I will believe, after all if he could create everything in seven days, then this should be easy. Trivial task for such an all powerful being!

reply to post by haarvik

What proof can I show you? You will not believe no matter what. Even if you become a multi-millionaire you would chalk it up to luck. I'll tell you this: stigmata is a real phenomenon. I know because I asked for evidence and I got it, but when I asked I meant it, not just challenging God sarcastically. You will not accept my testimony, so what proof can I possibly give you? And you cannot study miracles empirically.

Does anyone know who exactly it is controlling what he says? It could be anyone...seriously!! Everyone just accepts that Hawking is some sort of spastic genius. Well in a world of conspiracies isnt it possible that someone else is controlling his teleprompter?

No offence intended toward any mentally challenged.

If there we were just bodies, then each and everyone one of us would be the same. But we aren't because we just aren't a body with a brain, were a body with a brain and a soul. If you think of it like this, your car can't run without a driver, just like your body. Your body is a car, and your soul ( or what ever you want to call it ) is the driver.
Once we die, our physical body dies but your soul still lives on.

I'm not religious, I hate religion, this is just what I believe from different experiences I've had. There is no heaven, or hell. There is no god, Jesus was a schizophrenic and they had no way of knowing if people were, heck they though people who were schizophrenic were controlled by demons.
Also if religion was the right way to live, it wouldn't have put us into a 300 year dark age.

As in another discussion here, it has been proven that thought can change things. What we believe happens. If you believe that a miracle will happen, then it will. If we were to look at clouds in the sky, you would see things I would not. Every man is god the father and the son. God created man in his own image...I created a son that looks like me. I am a son and also a father. Each of us is god. We create, we destroy and we control our destiny. There is no all knowing supreme being. But in your mind there is, and you will see things that in your mind validate your beliefs. For those of us who use reason and logic to explain things, we see behind the proverbial curtain and see there is no grand wizard, just a man. Our afterlife is our children. We live on in their memories. We think we have a soul because we can reason. If we are self aware, then there has to be a greater power that gave it to us otherwise why do we exist? We exist just as an ant or a butterfly exists. Nature has selected us to evolve and survive. When we die we return to the source of our existence which is the earth. We are made of the same material every other living thing on this planet is. If there was a supreme being that created us in HIS image, we would not be like every other thing on this planet. Otherwise, you are admitting god is a man, and is made of the same things we are. If you don't, then you can't say we are created in his image. It's a paradox for religion.

Originally posted by haarvik
As in another discussion here, it has been proven that thought can change things. What we believe happens. If you believe that a miracle will happen, then it will. If we were to look at clouds in the sky, you would see things I would not. Every man is god the father and the son. God created man in his own image...I created a son that looks like me. I am a son and also a father. Each of us is god. We create, we destroy and we control our destiny. There is no all knowing supreme being. But in your mind there is, and you will see things that in your mind validate your beliefs. For those of us who use reason and logic to explain things, we see behind the proverbial curtain and see there is no grand wizard, just a man. Our afterlife is our children. We live on in their memories. We think we have a soul because we can reason. If we are self aware, then there has to be a greater power that gave it to us otherwise why do we exist? We exist just as an ant or a butterfly exists. Nature has selected us to evolve and survive. When we die we return to the source of our existence which is the earth. We are made of the same material every other living thing on this planet is. If there was a supreme being that created us in HIS image, we would not be like every other thing on this planet. Otherwise, you are admitting god is a man, and is made of the same things we are. If you don't, then you can't say we are created in his image. It's a paradox for religion.

I dare you to believe that you have bullet holes in your palms and create actual holes in your palms, or believe that you can walk through walls and actually go through walls. Man doesn't inherit godly powers. Objective reality exists whether you believe in it or not. When a miracle, one in objective reality or personally, happens it's not your own doing, but a gift from God. Being made in an image is not being made in the substance.

It's futile to even bother, because, except that you experience it yourself, you'll rationalize it away so you don't have to accept an omnipotent God and a hell, both of which are true. The cross is foolishness to those who don't know the truth.

reply to post by 547000


So because you can't prove it, I am to accept it as is. I submit the burden of proof is with you and your religion. As I stated before, science has debunked religion time and again. It's religion that is full of holes.

reply to post by haarvik


I told you you wouldn't accept what was proof to me, because I told God if he showed me personally, I would believe regardless of how the world went. Further more any of the other miracles like Marian apparitions, incorruptibility, bleeding statues, and Eucharist miracles can also be waved away by simply calling them liars, delusional, man-made miracles through co-creation.

I don't expect or demand you believe. But some people have had miracles happen in their lives and they so believe.

You want proof of God? I recommend begging instead of asking, crawling instead of walking, and tears rather than a smirk. That may be a good start.

reply to post by 547000


People have had close encounters with aliens, does this mean they are real or not? There is more proof that aliens exist than god.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by haarvik

 

You want proof of God? I recommend begging instead of asking, crawling instead of walking, and tears rather than a smirk. That may be a good start.

I might be alone here, but being 1m87cm, I definitely prefer walking over crawling. And laughing over tears of course.

Especially if there's ZERO objective reason to do any of what you're asking of people

This thread is just so entertaining I have to post on it!
Did someone turn off Steven's machine yet,
so we can zap him back and let him really tell us his enlightened opinion?

Nobody really knows what happens after death since it's a one way trip

Steven hawking is speaking from a scientific point of view,your body is made of flesh and bone,your brain is made up of flesh that has neural pathways (electrical in nature).When you friggin die.you are dead,your brain dies,the electrical energy is gone,you friggin rot till there is nothing,so from his point of view and scientific fact he is correct,thats what happens to you,just like most science and theories,things can change,you just never know

Make beleive is arguing you are right about life after death,heaven,god and all that stuff,it is people who beleive that have no evidence

I as well as steven are open to the possibility that there is a heaven and afterlife,

reply to post by KDM_Souljah


Indeed , I do agree with your conjecture and this has been my hypothesis all long. There is no evidence for the existence of a soul and the definition of one is obscure at best. Good and Evil, heaven and hell, god and the devil are nothing but human contrivances(Ad nihilum.), delusions if you will to evade that which the human mind cannot fathom. Such quixotic ideas are merely an exercise in futility and when you die, regardless of whether a soul exists or not.....your memories will be purged from existence(since your brain would also die) and without your memories you cease to exist......

I had to get in on this again. This guy is just not a favorite of mine for many reasons..but with that said, I want to add this...

To say you do not believe in a creation of a singularity of Energy (God) tells me you do not have enough information. To say that scientists do not believe is an assumption because there are those that do. Science has been trying to prove there is a God since it began. Why would they put so much energy into something they know does not exist? Trying to find a "God Particle" by putting this huge machine deep into our Earth (home for now), sucking the planet dry of its life force (oil) and all the other things we are doing at the present time is not only messing with our home we call Earth but it is also going against what we do know. These people are not the ones I put my trust in for facts. The facts change because of cause and effect which is constantly changing as well. Everything and everyone is still in creation mode. We are all still evolving.

We, in my mind are nothing but the consciousness of the Energy force that moved within the cosmos and became self aware. It/he/she learns through us. We are all connected, however in each creation story we are told we are the Grand creation over all things, hence we create as we are in God and vice versa.

For someone to say that NDE are just brain stems losing the energy within the brain is just so silly with my understanding of them. Many people have been clinically dead only to be revived to come back with a heart beat to say what they experienced. Many with different beliefs only to have experienced the same thing.

The Universe with many Solar Systems are governed by laws just as everything else that is in creation form. Science states there are other dimensions which the eye cannot see. What lies within these dimensions?

We live in a very complex System and this system is something we have not all the answers for. The answers are based on our reality of what each particle is and how it operates. We are still trying to discover what is at the Core of the Earth. SO much we just do not know nor can we have exact proof until then.

S. Hawking is a brillent man. But his opinion is bias because he is handicap. Let us be honest he is a cripple and he feels that he has been given the short end of the staff because he has yet to show his full potential to the world of his scientific breakthrough. All the while he is getting his butt wiped. Pretty honest. So, by deducation you can speculate that he is mad with God. Thus taking this stance.

reply to post by 547000


it sounds like your to one sided to be making a statement such as you do, it would take someone on the fence between the two gardens to actually have an opinion of relevance, two opposing sides the both believe they are 100% correct don't have opinions they have arguments, which causes conflict, which gives rise to hate, which we have enough off, im afraid god does exist, its just not the god you believe in, and now believe is a key word in this, because anything in which you "believe" is actually real to only you, up until you tell your story and others relate to it, or find some kind of comfort in, which is probably what the current story of god originally did, then it became a story of destruction, demanding of worship, expulsion from society and eternal burning in the afterlife if went against.

for instance the cross isn't a symbol of hope, its a symbol used to remind people of the sacrifice of gods only son, which really incites guilt into a persons mind, making them feel like, oh gosh if GOD gave up is ONLY SON as to save our SOULS how is it we can not follow and obey, alot of people still follow out of fear, its not because they truly love god or jesus its because they are scared half to death of eternity in hell, just as a lot of people use him as a source to vent their anger through, i understand the cross as it really is, im afraid its you who does not, i hope there is an after life, or more so that life just evolves, it would be a shame to end something that has gone through all this growing and learning and struggle simply because...time ran out, i mean after all time is man made, its just a measurement a way of categorizing and recording, not until death will you truly know, so i do think it is worth living life to the fullest, a good peaceful, just life, one where you do no harm to others in any way but instead lend a hand to them when harm has been done to them, its hard to live that way though simply because of how life is constructed, although i don't think your comment is fair, you just simply throw in a grenade and close the door then walk away without a care because you believe your right, you don't even consider that you may be wrong, cause if you did...well you wouldn't be so adamant in your beliefs, but they are your own so please continue to do so unless one day you decide to consider other possibilities, that would be a magnificent moment.

reply to post by 547000


it sounds like proof of god could be found in a child then, they cry, beg and crawl, but then they also laugh walk and ask, its impossible to have one with out the other, or we would not know the difference, if god were real i do not believe if he is to be the god that is described that he would allow to happen what has happened in his name, if he forgives why crusade and kill many that did not obey, he is not supposed to be that type of being, so on that basis i do not believe that god that is taught is real...but, with that said if the devil were to be real then the happenings as of late could very well be his doing so i consider that to be a possibility, there's more evidence in this world that the devil exists than god, so i suppose a way the devil could be evidence of the existence of god, because if there was one there should be another, but i believe yet again that god would not let it happen so i do not think that god exists,
and as we are the ones doing the destroying and killing and damage on this earth, i do not think the devil is behind it, its a fault in humanity, which i believe is Greed, Money and of course Power, im sorry but there is more proof to the WHOLE world of the acts of what may be considered to be the Devil than there is proof to the WHOLE world of acts that may be considered to be of GOD...i mean turn on the tv , go to the news its DEATH DEATH DEATH ECONOMIC BREAKDOWN TERRORISTS TERRORISTS NEW SICKNESS AND DISEASE'S DISCOVERED OIL SPILL DEATH DEATH DEATH...not, TODAY CANCER WAS CURED, THE BLIND CAN SEE, WORLD POVERTY AND HUNGER ARE NO MORE, WORLD PEACE HAS FINALLY BEEN ACHIEVED, NO MORE WARING OR UNNEEDED DEATHS, CRIME HAS BEEN ABOLISHED...none of that, just pain and suffering with random comic relief and entertainment sections in between, so im sorry and i truly wish it was not so...but theres the proof that your god does not exist, but an afterlife may still exist, the question is, if so, is it as chaotic as this one.

As one of the most respected scientists in the world, I can appreciate, Mr. Hawkings viewpoint that since there are no mathematical or scientific methods available to prove the existence of "heaven" it cannot exist. However, he just as all other scientists is required to work by the scientific method, which is continually proving to be the valid way to obtain real scientific data that can be accepted by us all as "truth"

my gripe is this, how asinine is the reporting news source to ask a scientist to verify, or validate, or give an opinion on a subject in which he has no belief? ask him about black holes or gravitons, this story just serves to demonize the man or to detract from people of faith.

I've got a fairy tale too: once there was an incredibly brilliant man of much reknown, his influence was used to draw people away from their faiths and the ideas that held together their communities, he attracted their attention and intentions away from their most positive ideals and was cursed with a crippling disease. but its just fiction...

reply to post by 547000


I feel that one of the most important means of developing in faith is that you drop your ego and start with a "What if?" type attitude. From a position of humility. The best prayers for me are the ones that begin with teary eyes, not crying, but welling up from inside based on feelings of love and joy and grattude. Emotions are real for those who experience them and are a real tool to use along the road of faith/spirituality