Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

reply to post by subby


Moral ambivalence is the new "cool".

"It's all relative man".

It's ridiculous.

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by mahajohn
It's a 50/50 shot that Hawking is correct, and he's just opining based on his vast knowledge and experience. Now, if you were a scientist with the deepest comprehension of the ways of matter and energy, and you saw the universe before you as the result of physical laws being applied to matter/energy, and it makes absolute sense in and of itself as a closed system, why would you be inclined to believe in an ancient leap of ignorance we call the "afterlife?"

By and large, our beliefs in the afterlife come from religious indoctrination and mystical experiences, rather than observations of celestial phenomena or sound mathematical extrapolations. In other words, afterlife belief stems from ignorant, immature, pre-modern understanding of the world. In fact, it's essentially an artifact of a time when humans thought Earth was some vast plane, the only place in existence. Why would we WANT a leading scientist to profess a belief shared by ignorant yahoos and people who think eclipses were signs from a divine being?

Yikes.

That said, Hawking is probably right, and the greater universe in which our "universe" exists probably just goes on forever and forever (physically and temporally), without beginning or end.

Hi. I don't know you, but your post has restored my faith in ATS still having rational, objective and clear thinking members. Thank you.

(Not directed at anyone in particular)
God does not exist and neither does an afterlife. This really is it. No reincarnation, no spiritual rewards for good behaviour and no punishments for bad behaviour either. This life provides the rewards and punishments.
Don't believe me? Want to go outside now and punch a stranger in the face? If you do, you'll quickly discover we don't need God to keep us on the straight and narrow. You could also try treating everybody you meet with kindness and respect, this will soon bring very real rewards. We don't need God.

edit on 17-5-2011 by subby because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2011 by subby because: (no reason given)

Coincidentally, I just came across a thread on Reddit that is full of examples of genuine human kindness and the benefits it brings:
Link To Examples of Kindness on Reddit

The people posting in that thread display more empathy and compassion than most of the so called Christians posting here.

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath
There is no right or wrong, bad or good, everything is just relative!

I'm pretty sure that If I were to break in to your home tonight and slit your throat whilst you slept, you would agree that would be bad.
Alternatively, If I were to take it upon myself to change your life for good by giving you a million dollars of my inherited wealth, that would be good.

I Should add that I'm not going to do either of those.

Why are you trying to come across as a psychopath? What's to be gained?

You mentioned coming to my house slicing my throat, yet I'm the psychopath.... I'm flattered....

As brilliant as Mr Hawking is, would he be as well known outside his field if it wasn't for the wheelchair? Too many people accept his word as gospel, and if they weren't before, will now be carrying with them an unecessary fear of death for the rest of their lives.
Personally I believe in creation, but I most certainly don't believe in a god as taught by organized religion. I'm sure the Catholic Church had to have been the first to use "mind control" to keep the believers, believing! For the past couple of thousand years, they have been experts at using the fear of death, and the Hell in which they'll be spending eternity if they step out of line!
Besides having had several experiences with spirits/ghosts as a child, at the age of nineteen I had a short visit to the "other side". I know what I seen, and it was beautiful! I've heard all the arguments against an afterlife, yet few came from medical professionals who deal with death on a daily basis, and for good reason!

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath
There is no right or wrong, bad or good, everything is just relative!

I'm pretty sure that If I were to break in to your home tonight and slit your throat whilst you slept, you would agree that would be bad.
Alternatively, If I were to take it upon myself to change your life for good by giving you a million dollars of my inherited wealth, that would be good.

I Should add that I'm not going to do either of those.

Why are you trying to come across as a psychopath? What's to be gained?

You mentioned coming to my house slicing my throat, yet I'm the psychopath.... I'm flattered....

I was using very graphic language to to try and make a point, just in case you are actually a psychopath.

Do you feel empathy for others?

Originally posted by Bkrmn
As brilliant as Mr Hawking is, would he be as well known outside his field if it wasn't for the wheelchair? Too many people accept his word as gospel, and if they weren't before, will now be carrying with them an unecessary fear of death for the rest of their lives.
Personally I believe in creation, but I most certainly don't believe in a god as taught by organized religion. I'm sure the Catholic Church had to have been the first to use "mind control" to keep the believers, believing! For the past couple of thousand years, they have been experts at using the fear of death, and the Hell in which they'll be spending eternity if they step out of line!
Besides having had several experiences with spirits/ghosts as a child, at the age of nineteen I had a short visit to the "other side". I know what I seen, and it was beautiful! I've heard all the arguments against an afterlife, yet few came from medical professionals who deal with death on a daily basis, and for good reason!

Hi. A few responses, if that's okay.
Do you also think that Einstein's large nose was responsible for his success?
People should have a fear of death, for it is the end of their life. If they have some sense they'll try not to waste their short time here.
I'm a "medical professional" and have been for a decade, dealing with death on a daily basis, and have encountered no examples of anything "spiritual".

You mentioned coming to my house slicing my throat, yet I'm the psychopath.... I'm flattered....

I was using very graphic language to to try and make a point, just in case you are actually a psychopath.

Do you feel empathy for others?



Poor Subby hasn't the least trouble muddling subjective and objective considerations. Because we know that Evolution both formed Man's brain and Man's resultant thought patterns, it is ludicrous to claim that the purely subjective notions of Man "should be the standard throughout the cosmos". And our Science is purely a subjective construct flowing from Man's evolved brain.

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by Bkrmn
As brilliant as Mr Hawking is, would he be as well known outside his field if it wasn't for the wheelchair? Too many people accept his word as gospel, and if they weren't before, will now be carrying with them an unecessary fear of death for the rest of their lives.
Personally I believe in creation, but I most certainly don't believe in a god as taught by organized religion. I'm sure the Catholic Church had to have been the first to use "mind control" to keep the believers, believing! For the past couple of thousand years, they have been experts at using the fear of death, and the Hell in which they'll be spending eternity if they step out of line!
Besides having had several experiences with spirits/ghosts as a child, at the age of nineteen I had a short visit to the "other side". I know what I seen, and it was beautiful! I've heard all the arguments against an afterlife, yet few came from medical professionals who deal with death on a daily basis, and for good reason!

Hi. A few responses, if that's okay.
Do you also think that Einstein's large nose was responsible for his success?
People should have a fear of death, for it is the end of their life. If they have some sense they'll try not to waste their short time here.
I'm a "medical professional" and have been for a decade, dealing with death on a daily basis, and have encountered no examples of anything "spiritual".

If God showed himself, Real Science will state It was a mass illusion cased by intense solar storms from our sun, Or because we are passing through the Galactic Belt and it cause a mass illusion there would be so many different Scientific hypothesis to choose from if God did appear....

reply to post by subby


Only feel empathy for those who deserve it, it's very easy to switch that on and off. All human beings feel empathy ONLY WHEN THEY WANT TO.

There is no such thing as a pure psychopath. That's government controlled science, there is very little data to even confirm there is such a thing as natural born pure psychopath.

Originally posted by subby
Angry Christians are angry.

For those of you saying that he has no scientific data to back up his statements, I believe he is reflecting on the amassed knowledge of our species and not one specific equation. I'm not here to argue with Christians though, it's boring and predictable.

not to be contrary, but the entire total of human knowledge amounts to about jack squat. we live in an illusion that our 5 senses are all there is, and if something exists it is observable by us. here's the b * t c h of it though, if something exists and is unobservable by our 5 senses or technology, there's no way we could know of or conceive of it. case in point; dark matter/energy. we know that it "should" be there, there are theories on it, but we cannot see or measure it.

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by Bkrmn
As brilliant as Mr Hawking is, would he be as well known outside his field if it wasn't for the wheelchair? Too many people accept his word as gospel, and if they weren't before, will now be carrying with them an unecessary fear of death for the rest of their lives.
Personally I believe in creation, but I most certainly don't believe in a god as taught by organized religion. I'm sure the Catholic Church had to have been the first to use "mind control" to keep the believers, believing! For the past couple of thousand years, they have been experts at using the fear of death, and the Hell in which they'll be spending eternity if they step out of line!
Besides having had several experiences with spirits/ghosts as a child, at the age of nineteen I had a short visit to the "other side". I know what I seen, and it was beautiful! I've heard all the arguments against an afterlife, yet few came from medical professionals who deal with death on a daily basis, and for good reason!

Hi. A few responses, if that's okay.
Do you also think that Einstein's large nose was responsible for his success?
People should have a fear of death, for it is the end of their life. If they have some sense they'll try not to waste their short time here.
I'm a "medical professional" and have been for a decade, dealing with death on a daily basis, and have encountered no examples of anything "spiritual".

If God showed himself, Real Science will state It was a mass illusion cased by intense solar storms from our sun, Or because we are passing through the Galactic Belt and it cause a mass illusion there would be so many different Scientific hypothesis to choose from if God did appear....

and if the sun shines into a camera lens at a funny angle Real Religion will state that it IS the virgin mary, no question, no proof needed.

Ouroboros; a snake eating its own tail. religion proves nothing, science proves things, but only within a fixed set of parameters. the two sides will go back and forth until the end of time. until both sides admit that their opinions and findings are based on our limited perceptions, we will argue over what we believe vs. what we can prove.

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by Bkrmn
As brilliant as Mr Hawking is, would he be as well known outside his field if it wasn't for the wheelchair? Too many people accept his word as gospel, and if they weren't before, will now be carrying with them an unecessary fear of death for the rest of their lives.
Personally I believe in creation, but I most certainly don't believe in a god as taught by organized religion. I'm sure the Catholic Church had to have been the first to use "mind control" to keep the believers, believing! For the past couple of thousand years, they have been experts at using the fear of death, and the Hell in which they'll be spending eternity if they step out of line!
Besides having had several experiences with spirits/ghosts as a child, at the age of nineteen I had a short visit to the "other side". I know what I seen, and it was beautiful! I've heard all the arguments against an afterlife, yet few came from medical professionals who deal with death on a daily basis, and for good reason!

Hi. A few responses, if that's okay.
Do you also think that Einstein's large nose was responsible for his success?
People should have a fear of death, for it is the end of their life. If they have some sense they'll try not to waste their short time here.
I'm a "medical professional" and have been for a decade, dealing with death on a daily basis, and have encountered no examples of anything "spiritual".

If God showed himself, Real Science will state It was a mass illusion cased by intense solar storms from our sun, Or because we are passing through the Galactic Belt and it cause a mass illusion there would be so many different Scientific hypothesis to choose from if God did appear....

and if the sun shines into a camera lens at a funny angle Real Religion will state that it IS the virgin mary, no question, no proof needed.

Ouroboros; a snake eating its own tail. religion proves nothing, science proves things, but only within a fixed set of parameters. the two sides will go back and forth until the end of time. until both sides admit that their opinions and findings are based on our limited perceptions, we will argue over what we believe vs. what we can prove.

It is anthropocentric to claim that man's system of knowing and thinking is standard throughout the Cosmos. Yet still, Science is one of the great achievements of the human mind, standing alongside the art of Michaelangelo, the operas of Wagner, the poetry of Maya Angelou.

Bah, forgot to embed the videos.

Watch what other scientists are saying and what they have discovered which completely debunks the claims made by Hawkings.

There are an infinite number of universes and dimensions, and they are all connected by what is described as a membrane.

How does Hawking know that one of these dimensions, or the membrane itself is not what has been called as heaven?





In the following video at about 7 minutes they start talking about the weakness of gravity and how it seems to be flowing from another universe/dimension into ours which would explain it's weakness.





In the following video they start talking about the multiverse, that there are an infinite number of bubble universes, something which has been known by mystics and scholars of ancient knowledge before scientists discovered it.





M Theory

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



How could there be a God that created everything that we see and feel in the natural world today.... Why can't everything that we see exist from absolutely nothing at all, like my daughters project ant farm, sure there is a realm/dimension out side of her ant farm, and sure it was intelligently created and modified for those ants, but that should not pertain to us humans.... oh no, nothing out there is "that" intelligent enough to create a cosmos, from nothing we came, to nothing we go. I have calculated that there is as wide a gulf between the ant's intelligence and mine as there is between Man and the Intelligent Designer, eh yes?

reply to post by FlyingSkullOfDeath


IMO nothing was ever created, it always existed and transforms from one state of energy into another. IMO what people call God is a conciousness which connects the infinite multiverses, possibly what scientists are calling the membrane.

IMO what people call God is neither male or female, but it is both and everything else because it connects and is part of everything that exists.

What people call the beginning imo is nothing more than the beginning of another cycle in an endless number of cycles.

When you can't move and you're stuck in a chair, I'm sure you spend a lot of time in your head.

No distractions, just you.

I'm sure Hawking has reached conclusions that we can only dream of reaching. Literally.

reply to post by Robot7


Does that make him right?

Just because he has lots of time to think when what other scientists from all over the world have discovered debunks what Hawkings claims?

reply to post by FlyingSkullOfDeath


agreed. if you travel far enough out into the universe, i'm sure you'll find a place where up is down, black is white, etc. we have all of these laws and rules and theories which hinge upon our known set of parameters being all there is. but if we don't understand the nature of the fish bowl we're in, how can we measure its volume? how do we know that an inch is really an inch?

Oh yeah. I forgot that Stephen Hawking has died before and knows all about what happens afterwards. The universe is a lot more complicated than rational thought allows us to think. Both religious extremists and scientists or athiests who think they know it all are wrong.

What's interesting to me is that someone so intelligent, someone who has done so much research in the world of physics and astrophysics, someone who clearly believes and says there are other dimensions in the universe, will say something so ridiculous as this. The problem is that most people hear the word "spiritual" and they immediately think of "religion" when in reality, at the very core, a spiritual world is just another dimension. I just find this statement to be a huge contradiction.

The same way he argues that people want to believe in an the afterlife because they are afraid of dying, one could also argue that people don't want to believe in the afterlife, heaven or earth, because they are afraid of having to deal with yet another form of life, one that might be a result of what you did or didn't do in life as we know it. One could also argue that to believe that there isn't anything else after life is the hope for those who are hopeless. Food for thought.

PS. Please excuse me if my English is not perfect but I hope the idea is clear.