Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

reply to post by OG_SWAGGA_KING


Actually we don't have free will, more of preprogramed actions and responses. We are not completely in control of our thoughts and feelings, freewill is submissive. You can convince yourself you have free will, but you really don't. It is an illusion. We still bow to our primitive instincts.

Someone calls you out at a bar and starts a fight, you get angry. That isn't freewill that is a preprogrammed response.

We are puppets to our own ideals, we think our ideas are better then all others, some due to large egos, others cannot accept ideals that differ from their own. Or believe they are in the right religion and so believe their word is law.


Please do not make it evident that we originated from monkeys, it's embarrassing to be associated with this species, cannot even live together peaceful let alone take care of their own world. We are a mistake not a touch of god. Worst designs flaws ever, throats can choke on almost anything that isn't chewed to mush.

We are random. Brains are a mutation caused by radiation from the sun, the radiation altered the genomes of our ancestors, causing an abnormality. That is intelligence.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Why does the conscious version of an afterlife make you happy exactly? What is wrong with the natural order of things? You live, you die and then your corpse gives life to other creatures. This appeals to me much more than the monotheistic version or any other kind of afterlife. I am an atheist but have found that many other Atheists say they wish there was an afterlife but simply find it hard to believe in one because of lack of evidence, i have never understood that...the idea of one is repugnant to me in all honesty. The worst thing i hate hearing from someone who is a believer in the afterlife is "There must be more to life than this" I mean honestly..... Just look at a few hubble pics, be humbled and then look at that sentence again.

I don't understand this logic. Presume for a minute there IS a creator, God, and that we are his creation, living in his created universe. Why is it that we expect that by simply poking and prodding and measuring this creation that we could make absolute statements about the existence of the creator?

The more we look around, the more we realize how small we are, how small of a scope we have on time and space. Shouldn't this have a humbling effect, rather than making us more arrogant - conjuring absolutes that we can't possibly, truly prove with the information provided? Just because Mr. Hawking hasn't found God or Heaven in his studies doesn't mean it's not there, it just means that if it is, he's not looking in the right place or in the right way.

reply to post by spacedonk


Stephen Hawking & Richard Dawkins are among the many fools who have completely dumbed down an entire generation.
God has nothing to do with dogma and if they don't understand what God is that's their problem. Their not to be taken seriously. Humanity had enough of spiritual stigmata, and suppressing our natural evolvution is only going to make things worse. Screw them.

Originally posted by Circular Universe
Ok ATS, maybe you can help me figure out this one. So say there is a great creator- what created it?

Your purported "conundrum" question is a standard atheist blunder. Who created God you say? Everything that has a beginning has a first cause.. God has NO first cause and therefore NO beginning. Next question?

reply to post by Solomons


I'm not made happy by it. It's just a thought experiment. Just taking a guess at what may be or what may not be. I don't really care what it is. I'm just interested in it what it may be.

Oh also, I never said that there MUST be an afterlife. I was just guessing at how it may function if it does exist. Don't know if it does or not.

Surely the random collision of atoms will spontaneously generate exquisite interconnected Order in any system....

I don't follow any religion but I do believe in an after life of sorts... and even saying that after the brain flickers for the last time, it's nothing, is scientifically inaccurate... Our energy, our cells, go back into the universe. That continues on... We provide sustenance for other animals, allowing them life as well.. But our energy continues on...

I guess the question is, does that energy, hold onto any kind of self awareness/consciousness ?

I think that at the very least, our energy does continue on, but we may just no longer be self aware.... Or at the most somehow, we do remain self aware and continue to grow, spiritually....

Just a thought anyway.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Lmao so there ARE unicorns in the ocean. Goes to show one cant drink from the cup of arrogance in today's YouTube world. Lol I admire Hawking, but he should stick to what he knows and that is physics. Leave trascendence to the gurus, shamans and buddhas. Shoemaker stick to making shoes, IMO.

The first law of thermodynamics states that "energy cannot be created or destroyed". Yes, our bodies will decay and feed worms and plants. But there is a lot more present than just plant-nutrition in us. Agreed?

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To say it in an apologetic Christian way: If you were God, and this assumes that you are a good God. After they know that you are good, what would the other important thing be that you would want your people/followers/children/disciples on the earth to know? My guess is that you would want them to know that when they die, they will Always be safe, and with you. True Christians have this assurance (I didn't have it for a long, long time). No matter how bad it may get, we always have this assurance that, yes, it will turn out well in the end.

Hey, if you have doubts, just ask God. Just pray. God is well able to respond to your query.

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By the way, I'm wondering what happened to the thread: Inventor of hydrogen energy gets 10 death threats.??
Lost? Moderators, please restore this thread on ATS. Thank You.

Originally posted by onequestion
So who cares?

No seriously though, if we are not spiritual entities, then why do most of us discuss and think spiritually?

How is it that i can use some form of a drug and the entire world around me changes, yet this is considered not real?

Have you contemplated what this means to your experience of reality and how so it can be changed?

edit on 15-5-2011 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Not too sure you can go as far as to say he denies any form of spiritual experience. I think what one could read into it is that once that individual dies then so does that individual's spirit. We are In Extempore, of the moment.

It's a 50/50 shot that Hawking is correct, and he's just opining based on his vast knowledge and experience. Now, if you were a scientist with the deepest comprehension of the ways of matter and energy, and you saw the universe before you as the result of physical laws being applied to matter/energy, and it makes absolute sense in and of itself as a closed system, why would you be inclined to believe in an ancient leap of ignorance we call the "afterlife?"

By and large, our beliefs in the afterlife come from religious indoctrination and mystical experiences, rather than observations of celestial phenomena or sound mathematical extrapolations. In other words, afterlife belief stems from ignorant, immature, pre-modern understanding of the world. In fact, it's essentially an artifact of a time when humans thought Earth was some vast plane, the only place in existence. Why would we WANT a leading scientist to profess a belief shared by ignorant yahoos and people who think eclipses were signs from a divine being?

Yikes.

That said, Hawking is probably right, and the greater universe in which our "universe" exists probably just goes on forever and forever (physically and temporally), without beginning or end.

The man is entitled to his opinion. Just like everyone else is. So far, no one has brought concrete proof (as far as I know) of an afterlife, or conversly proof that there is nothing after death.

It's still an uknown.

So everyone is entitled to thier own opinon. As long as you don't try to push yours on me, it's all good.imo.

However I think Mr. Hawkins (given his credentials and how many people revere him) should not make such concrete statements on life and death and heaven and hell. Because of his "station in life" it carries alot of weight and may impact people. So he is "pushing his beliefs on people" by just stateting them. It's just poor form imo.

His religion IS science afterall, what else would you expect him to say about the afterlife?

Just so you know, I'm not bashing his beliefs, personally I also don't believe in the pearly gates of heaven as described in the KJB.

But I do have my own beliefs about life and death (and they differ from Mr. Hawkins) My beliefs fall closer (but not exactly) to a Mahayana Buddists' as far as I can tell; haveing researcheded numerous religions and thier beliefs on how life and the universe work.

I just wish more people would look at other religions/beliefs than the ones that thier parents chose for them. It's like "religious racism" (as I like to call it), The way religious beliefs are so strictly passed down from generation to generation. A shame really.

Originally posted by mahajohn
It's a 50/50 shot that Hawking is correct, and he's just opining based on his vast knowledge and experience. Now, if you were a scientist with the deepest comprehension of the ways of matter and energy, and you saw the universe before you as the result of physical laws being applied to matter/energy, and it makes absolute sense in and of itself as a closed system, why would you be inclined to believe in an ancient leap of ignorance we call the "afterlife?"

By and large, our beliefs in the afterlife come from religious indoctrination and mystical experiences, rather than observations of celestial phenomena or sound mathematical extrapolations. In other words, afterlife belief stems from ignorant, immature, pre-modern understanding of the world. In fact, it's essentially an artifact of a time when humans thought Earth was some vast plane, the only place in existence. Why would we WANT a leading scientist to profess a belief shared by ignorant yahoos and people who think eclipses were signs from a divine being?

Yikes.

That said, Hawking is probably right, and the greater universe in which our "universe" exists probably just goes on forever and forever (physically and temporally), without beginning or end.

Hi. I don't know you, but your post has restored my faith in ATS still having rational, objective and clear thinking members. Thank you.

(Not directed at anyone in particular)
God does not exist and neither does an afterlife. This really is it. No reincarnation, no spiritual rewards for good behaviour and no punishments for bad behaviour either. This life provides the rewards and punishments.
Don't believe me? Want to go outside now and punch a stranger in the face? If you do, you'll quickly discover we don't need God to keep us on the straight and narrow. You could also try treating everybody you meet with kindness and respect, this will soon bring very real rewards. We don't need God.

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by mahajohn
It's a 50/50 shot that Hawking is correct, and he's just opining based on his vast knowledge and experience. Now, if you were a scientist with the deepest comprehension of the ways of matter and energy, and you saw the universe before you as the result of physical laws being applied to matter/energy, and it makes absolute sense in and of itself as a closed system, why would you be inclined to believe in an ancient leap of ignorance we call the "afterlife?"

By and large, our beliefs in the afterlife come from religious indoctrination and mystical experiences, rather than observations of celestial phenomena or sound mathematical extrapolations. In other words, afterlife belief stems from ignorant, immature, pre-modern understanding of the world. In fact, it's essentially an artifact of a time when humans thought Earth was some vast plane, the only place in existence. Why would we WANT a leading scientist to profess a belief shared by ignorant yahoos and people who think eclipses were signs from a divine being?

Yikes.

That said, Hawking is probably right, and the greater universe in which our "universe" exists probably just goes on forever and forever (physically and temporally), without beginning or end.

Hi. I don't know you, but your post has restored my faith in ATS still having rational, objective and clear thinking members. Thank you.

(Not directed at anyone in particular)
God does not exist and neither does an afterlife. This really is it. No reincarnation, no spiritual rewards for good behaviour and no punishments for bad behaviour either. This life provides the rewards and punishments.
Don't believe me? Want to go outside now and punch a stranger in the face? If you do, you'll quickly discover we don't need God to keep us on the straight and narrow. You could also try treating everybody you meet with kindness and respect, this will soon bring very real rewards. We don't need God.

edit on 17-5-2011 by subby because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2011 by subby because: (no reason given)

There is no right or wrong, bad or good, everything is just relative!

Let me preface this by saying I don't have an opinion on the "after-life". I don't know. That said, Hawking is a theoretical or quantum scientist. I don't know the difference. WAY beyond my understanding BUT what makes him someone that has an iron clad notion as to what is after life? Has he died and come back? I mean "died". Not an NDE.

reply to post by MarkJS


I believe God to be Energy and this Energy manifests itself into many forms. It took me years upon years to discover this truth for myself but I do believe in A Massive Energy that is a Constant. The Alpha and The Omega. Only Energy can create.....thats my story and I'm sticking to it....for now.

reply to post by Nola213


However I think Mr. Hawkins (given his credentials and how many people revere him) should not make such concrete statements on life and death and heaven and hell. Because of his "station in life" it carries alot of weight and may impact people. So he is "pushing his beliefs on people" by just stateting them. It's just poor form imo.

Yet the leaders of all religions, most with only qualifications and understanding within ancient texts ie; their own religions can in their positions of influence make as many concrete statements as they wish

Originally posted by mahajohn
It's a 50/50 shot that Hawking is correct, and he's just opining based on his vast knowledge and experience. Now, if you were a scientist with the deepest comprehension of the ways of matter and energy, and you saw the universe before you as the result of physical laws being applied to matter/energy, and it makes absolute sense in and of itself as a closed system, why would you be inclined to believe in an ancient leap of ignorance we call the "afterlife?"

By and large, our beliefs in the afterlife come from religious indoctrination and mystical experiences, rather than observations of celestial phenomena or sound mathematical extrapolations. In other words, afterlife belief stems from ignorant, immature, pre-modern understanding of the world. In fact, it's essentially an artifact of a time when humans thought Earth was some vast plane, the only place in existence. Why would we WANT a leading scientist to profess a belief shared by ignorant yahoos and people who think eclipses were signs from a divine being?

Yikes.

That said, Hawking is probably right, and the greater universe in which our "universe" exists probably just goes on forever and forever (physically and temporally), without beginning or end.

Yeah, sure...

But some of us believe after having made similar observations that God created the universe and it is the impetus of Man to figure out how It did it. Sometimes that leads to answers that many of the religious cloth don't like(evolution). Not liking the results does not make them less of a fact. I for one believe the God of the Universe created all things to evolve.

When a man builds a machine with a purpose all he has to do is build it and then let the machine do it's thing. Life and all matter in the universe does not need God to do it's thing, their purpose will be fulfilled anyway as that is the design.

I am thankful to God for a whole world and a universe to live and learn in. And on the day I die I will go home to where ever or what ever that maybe.

Originally posted by FlyingSkullOfDeath
There is no right or wrong, bad or good, everything is just relative!

I'm pretty sure that If I were to break in to your home tonight and slit your throat whilst you slept, you would agree that would be bad.
Alternatively, If I were to take it upon myself to change your life for good by giving you a million dollars of my inherited wealth, that would be good.

I Should add that I'm not going to do either of those.

Why are you trying to come across as a psychopath? What's to be gained?