Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

Originally posted by Azp420
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

An interesting read. I think some related questions are:

Can something have an end but no beginning?

Can something have a beginning but no end?

To me it seems the most reasonable answer is that it always was and always will be. Perhaps going through some sort of cycle, where all information is destroyed at a certain point and it all starts fresh. That way no conscious part of the universe is able to look back in time and keep finding out what caused a certain event which caused a certain event to infinity.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

edit on 17-5-2011 by Azp420 because: (no reason given)

Can something have an end but no beginning?
I don't know. It would seem logical to say that if it had no beginning it cannot have an end, but that isn't really based on anything. I cannot yet explain why that makes sense to me. So, I don't really know the answer, it may be possible, but I will have to think about it more.

Can something have a beginning but no end?
Possibly, maybe. In reality I'm not sure. In the abstract you could say, positive numbers on the number line. They have a beginning at 0, 1, 2, 3 and so on but then they count to infinity. But that's abstract math. Is it possible in reality outside of numbers? This I will think about.

I used to think the universe was cyclical too. That the expansion of the universe would perhaps stop, and the universe would reverse and possibly collapse back in on itself creating another big bang. So the cycle thing always made sense to me.

But then scientists said they discovered that the universe is expanding, and not only that, but the rate of expansion is speeding up, meaning it's not slowing down, it's expanding even faster. And that perhaps the universe will just expand forever and ever.

But then they said that it might expand out so far that all the matter and the energy in the universe will become so stretched out and separated from itself that it won't be able to maintain itself, for lack of a better term, and may disappear from existence and that may be the end of the universe. The least likely probably, but it was an idea someone had.

So now i don't know if the universe starts over, ends, or goes on forever. I don't think they really know either, but I always thought it would start over and I was sure of it right up until I found out I'm probably wrong lol. Oh well. I don't really know.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
I don't know lol. I've answered this different ways, but just for fun I'll take this stance this time.

It's logical to conclude that regardless of if anyone is around or not, the tree produces waves in the air when it falls. These waves in the air are what vibrate the ear drum and our brain processes that vibration as sound.

If our eyes or ears worked differently or air worked differently, we may be able to see the waves and our brains may instead process the waves as light or as smell or as something entirely different if we had something other than ears.

So, I'll take the stance that the tree never produces sound. Even when you're standing right next to it. It just produces waves in the air and the brain processes that into what we think of as sound. Today our brains tell us, hey that's sound. Cross a few wires and all of a sudden you could be asking, hey? Did you smell that tree fall? lol.

Here's another Hawking revelation for you from his book "The Grand Design".

"It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion."

So you see according to Mr Hawking consciousness does not exist, all these posts and indeed Mr Hawkings books are not creations from a sentient being but merely the outcome of biomechanical signals and chemical reactions. Forget heaven, Hawking thinks you have no free will and are purely dominated by the laws of physics.

reply to post by thePharaoh


Hi Pharoah,

I don't think switching off SH's machine is going to achieve anything. The chair/tech is not what is keeping him alive, its probably his spirit that's responsible for his longevity!!!
Oh the irony of it all!


His chair is just a massive speak and spell on wheels....

There is truth to what he says. All actions have a reaction. The consciousness we possess is the sense vehicle to learn the process of the law. We can only make one choice in life. Love or hate. If we love God and love our neighbor, we have found the point to the story. We inherit the kingdom of God on this one choice. We choose to eat the fruit on our own or walk with God in the garden. If we walk with God and love our fellow man, we are granted more life. If not, we do not progress. Reality is the image of the real existence. It is a mirror. The true existence, on the other side of the veil, is where we are headed when we learn the point of living.

Originally posted by squiz
Here's another Hawking revelation for you from his book "The Grand Design".

"It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion."

So you see according to Mr Hawking consciousness does not exist, all these posts and indeed Mr Hawkings books are not creations from a sentient being but merely the outcome of biomechanical signals and chemical reactions. Forget heaven, Hawking thinks you have no free will and are purely dominated by the laws of physics.

Originally posted by squiz
Here's another Hawking revelation for you from his book "The Grand Design".

"It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion."

We have no FREE WILL huh. Guess we are slaves Mr.Hawking. Sometimes u can be so smart that u are stupid.

Originally posted by onequestion
So who cares?

No seriously though, if we are not spiritual entities, then why do most of us discuss and think spiritually?

How is it that i can use some form of a drug and the entire world around me changes, yet this is considered not real?

Have you contemplated what this means to your experience of reality and how so it can be changed?

edit on 15-5-2011 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Einstein said it too.. Reality is a persistant illusion . Bryan Kemila has said it, The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot filled with lots of other people throughout history who have also said it. I am soooo glad its a fricking nightmare. Even the Ancient bush tribes have said this place is a dream like non reality.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Personally i think this is quite easy to understand. But it is very hard to get other people to understand what i do

To understand the beginning I started out with a black image like the one under. I looked at it and said there is nothing there.



Then i asked my self; how did earth and everything else get in there " If " the black image represents the infinite. The universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists.

As you said your self, you know that our universe is expanding. It is said that our universe is either flat, round, a sphere or circular. To know this we would need a background to observe its shape. And the only way to observe a shape is if we have a larger back ground, in this case my black image.

Our universe must exist within the black image no matter what shape or size it has. Because our universe is not infinite because it has a shape. The black image is infinite and dosent have a shape, it just is.

If the black image is infinite how did our flat, sphere or round universe get there?

There is only one solution and that is by a compression of energy. Why?

Because our universe consists of a energy mass which is expanding or stretching.

My question is how could the infinite (the black image) compress it self and form a universe with mass?

My understanding of a true constant would be that the infinite is a contant because it has no reason to change.

Originally posted by spacedonk
A belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people
afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.

looks like little stephen doesn't like competition. lol!
oh, by the way, buy his book. i hear it's all the new
rage at bohemian grove and bilderberg meetings.

reply to post by spy66


You mean, are you're asking what caused it to compress in the first place? Or did you already say and I just didn't read it right?

'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story' - that's like saying there are no flying unicorns in the space. Of course there aren't. Didn't bother to read 40 pages, but if you are questioning that statement you are delusional and suffer from impaired logical thinking.

Originally posted by strato
'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story' - that's like saying there are no flying unicorns in the space. Of course there aren't. Didn't bother to read 40 pages, but if you are questioning that statement you are delusional and suffer from impaired logical thinking.

there ya go. intelligent and stupid at the same time. there must be god.

lol?

It is noted throughout the article that you are meant to live life in a worthy manner; gain the worth of your actions. Steven Hawking himself believes so, and I have to agree, at least in part. It has relevance to his point, also. He believes that there is no omniscient being, and therefore, he has created his own excuse for such and also a way to keep on living peacefully and happily, without worry of death.

If anything, he's made yet another intelligent statement/argument, and will/has won more respect from... well, anyone who isn't completely offended by the subject. For those who are, then all you can really say is; it is what it is, and life goes on.

Just my opinion on it, anyway.

I really do not care much for his opinion on this matter. There are lots of things where it seems that us as Human beings are unable to comprehend at this moment or stage in our evolution. If Hawkings thinks that there is nothing after death that's fine. It's his opinion. But he can't prove it at all. I would like to see him talk about the UFO's that are unexplained, ghosts, and other paranormal occurences that have proof for being real yet lack the human comprehension to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by aTree
If anything, he's made yet another intelligent statement/argument, and will/has won more respect from...

yeah, looks like stephen has been reading teh bible a lot.
oh, and he forgot about lizards and blue-bloods. so there
you have it. "live happy, don't worry. we'll think for you".

lol.

Steven H is just blabbing the same old science vrs spiritualism fight, does anyone know who started this anyway. For myself i love science and i love spiritualism, i have no fight with iether, but i do have big issues with religion on both sides, the dictatorship of iether science or spirit is a religion, a lie, to me they are boh fighting for dominance and control keeping us delusional from the truth we are still allowed to explore in ourselves, seems to me the (RELIGION) priests (POPE, HAWKING) that want the fight are iether leveraged or have agenda's, for me i do science and i meditate, astral travel, remote view and there's no fight in it for me, So it seems to me that somewhere in the past some power wanted this, us fighting and lost in the delusion, never letting us no we can have and can do both science and spiritualism happily and progress out of this class zero civilization box we live in.
Scientist i ask, why are not you allowed to meditate astral travel meet your dead loved ones, you are allowed, noone has to no.
Spiritual people, Science is the universe, learn it, its ok, your allowed, Why does your caterpillar turn to a butterfly, why? its realy amazing.

Originally posted by strato
'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story' - that's like saying there are no flying unicorns in the space. Of course there aren't. Didn't bother to read 40 pages, but if you are questioning that statement you are delusional and suffer from impaired logical thinking.

Well recently many scientists think there's a good amount of information to speculate that universe is infinite and just goes on and on forever and ever or that there are an infinite amount of universes that just go on forever and ever. If that's the case there is the possibility that as you go out into it far enough you'll come across flying unicorns. I know it seems absurd right?

But If the planets just go on and on forever that means somewhere out there every configuration that could exist probably does. Go far enough and you'll start to find planets like earth. Keep going and you may even find one exactly like earth with the same continents and countries just by random chance. It's just the laws of probability. Given an infinite space and an infinite amount of time, anything that can happen will happen. The same basic thing that powers evolution and abiogensis really.

Eventually you'd find another planet earth even with another YOU or ME on it! Or at least two guys that look and act exactly like us and maybe with many of the same experiences and memories even. Then another and another and another forever. Infinite yous! Inside one infinite you can have multiple infinities. You could find an infinite amount of earths in an infinite universe with infinite yous doing infinite things. Or even the exact same things. If you could just go far enough out there.

You'd also find other kinds of planets with everything you probably ever dreamed of and stuff you never could. So if the universe is indeed infinite. It's not only possible that there are flying unicorns in space. It's even LIKELY! and they might even be pink or blue!

Think about it. A unicorn is just a horse with a horn. Other animals have horns. So it's entirely possible that a horse like species on some other planet could have evolved horns and therefore became a unicorn. Or at least something we would call a unicorn anyway. Also, on earth we have animals with wings. So it's entirely possible that on some other planet a horse like creature with a horn and wings could have evolved.

Also, on earth we have plants that are blue and some of them are pink. Most of our plants are green though. On earth we have many animals of many different colors and some of them have evolved to blend into their environment. If there were an infinite amount of planets in an infinite universe it is logical to conclude that at least on one planet, much of the vegetation could be blue or pink or red or yellow or something other than mostly green.

If that's the case it is possible that there is some planet that evolved a winged and horned horse like creature that lived in area with a lot of blue or pink vegetation and so over time evolved to be that color itself to better blend into the environment to escape predators.

Then over time it may have developed brains like ours or even more advanced and invented space travel. Or there could have been other human like creatures on that planet that invented space travel and took those unicorns into space and they could be flying around in ships in the cargo bay.

Or since the universe is infinite they may also have invented space travel billions of years ago and may have lived in space ever since. Long enough that In that time they may have evolved in some way that give them the ability to let them survive outside the ship for a small time, or even permanently maybe. Some earth insects have evolved the ability to survive unprotected in space for a short time. So it's probably possible. So as strange as it may seem, if the universe is truly infinite. It is very likely that there are pink and blue winged unicorns flying around in space somewhere. We just don't know where.

It's just that since the universe is infinite, no matter how far they fly, they could never reach us so we'll probably never see them. Crazy, but true.

Also there are probably other creatures out there that to us would appear as angels or even a being that we may perceive as God who may have visited here. There may even be some place out there that looks like what we think heaven looks like. Anything is possible if you just try every combination.

But then again virtually almost every time the Bible speaks about Heaven it's probably not speaking about some fairy tale land. Heaven meant the sky and the stars or the "heavens". That when the angels said they came from Heaven, they probably meant, came from the stars.

When asked about the dead the Bible and Jesus said that the dead go to Hades (which means grave) and they know nothing. That they're unconscious or they're just a ghost.

The Bible says in the end that when Jesus returns that the believers will be taken up to Heaven which probably just means space or a kingdom of some kind in space.

Not that I'm saying the Bible is true or not true, but when you look at the whole thing. Heaven may very well have just meant space. That's what they called space back then sometimes. But I'm not 100 percent on that.

Something i always ask those who believe in an afterlife is about those who receive serious head/brain trauma and are literally rendered blank slates(no memories, personality etc the person before the accident is gone)...now if you ask people about an afterlife it is usually because they want to meet deceased loved ones etc But if the above is true and memories which essentially build your personality can be stripped away by an accident and from this we know that what makes you 'you' is localized in the brain, then surely when the brain is starved of oxygen and dies, like the above you die as well(no floating off to magic land). Also if you believe the 'soul' or whatever is not localized in the brain and hence is not you(the person sitting on this message board) then surely there is no point in somehow being excited about the prospect of an afterlife as you will not be experiencing it.

Did that make sense?

reply to post by Solomons


Some research suggests that people with head injuries become blank slates, but other research shows that they don't become blank slates, that the memories are still there, they just can't be accessed. This is why people with amnesia, many times after the brain has had a chance to heal, the memories will come back.

So perhaps the memories are stored in the brain and the brain is like a hard drive, or perhaps the brain is more like a network card and it communicates with the soul if you will. Either way if it gets damaged, that doesn't tell us what it is. For example if I broke my network card, and couldn't access the internet anymore, I wouldn't come to the conclusion that the internet must be stored on my computer then.

For example, let's say I had a device and it was either one of two things. It was either an external hard drive, or it might be an external networking device that wirelessly communicated with a hard drive that was some place else. But it didn't tell me which one it was and I had no way of knowing because it was some fancy device like the human brain and I wasn't sure how it worked.

Either way, if I break it or damage it, I won't be able to access the information regardless of where it was stored. It may have been on the device itself or it may not have been. However, breaking it doesn't tell me which one it was. All I know is I can no longer access it anymore.

It's just like the brain. We're not sure if the memories are stored on the brain, or if it's a connection to something else. Either way, when damaged, it probably won't work right. But we still don't know what it was doing when it was working right. All we know is, it's not working now.

However, it might not matter. I believe that when you die your energy probably goes on somewhere. And there's a good chance from what I read that your memories are stored in the brain, not in your energy. But a lot of people, including myself, have seen ghosts that have no brain, but yet still sometimes know things about the past. Yet they usually seem a bit confused about it all.

So there's a chance that even though the memories are stored in the brain they could still leave some kind of imprint on your energy pattern. And as long as that energy pattern remained stable you'd be okay. But if there is an eternity somewhere out there, then taking some of your memories may just be a coping mechanism. They might not last forever.

See, I forget things all the time and I've only lived decades. If I was in Heaven for millions of years, how long could I go without forgetting everything about my life anyway? Would memories still fade overtime? If so, you would probably eventually forget everything from this life anyway. So, I wonder if it really even matters.

reply to post by spacedonk


Logic has been found on ats? Lots of people will protest this due to how scared they are of dying, reassuring themselves of a fable made up completely by imagination. Honestly the idea of living forever after you you die, screams "whoever made that concept was scared sh+tless of dying"

If an afterlife was real, that would mean each and every organism from each and every species on each and every world throughout all of time, would have a place in this afterlife, which is ridiculous, heaven overcrowded much EH? And why would it be for just one species? We aren't special we are not important.

God is imaginary, death is quite literally the end, but why lose all hope? You wont know the difference, just nothing. Your not happy or sad, or anything your six feet under ground in a wooden box, so your rotting corpse doesn't stink up the place.

Those who cannot accept also tend to dislike the universe or topica of aliens, instead they dwell on the ideas of ghosts (which would be a pointless existence) if I was a ghost I wouldn't hang out on earth forever I would explore the universe, not just stay in one spot, so not only do these people have limited imaginations, but they expect the universe is obliged to conform to their ideas.

This is evolution, the step from magical thoughts to reality, are you ready for this transition, or would you rather. De-evolve back into a monkey?

Edit: those who are diehard fans of an afterlife we usually and almost always have been indocrintated by religion, basically warping your mind to believe something. Pathetic please so not ever represent our species, we would consider you the "lower half" of the evolutionary scale.

reply to post by spacedonk


Typical state of mind for spiritually disconnected persons.