Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

Originally posted by grizzle2
reply to post by Flighty

 

Hawking doesn't even believe in consciousness. In fact in scientific circles it has been called the "C word".

What is consciousness?

reply to post by Flighty


I mean... he's a theoretical physicist. He has the right to have a theory about the nature of human existence, and it seems to me that if he truly thinks that his theory is correct, it would apply to all people and not just himself. But as a theoretical physicist, it is nothing more than a theory based on his grasp of the science that governs human existence.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by 547000
He's in for a pretty big shock. There is a heaven and a hell.

Prove it

I can't prove it. Ask God for the experience. There is a terrible spiritual fire out there.

Originally posted by grizzle2
reply to post by spacedonk

 

Mechanism / materialism are the best arguments for tyranny, torture, pedophilia, rape, slavery, and genocide. After all, if we only exist for the duration of our physical lives, why not kill to have the most toys, power over others, sexual conquests? If we're just complex machines and life is just the illusion of life, it doesn't matter at all, right? One just doesn't have compassion for inanimate objects, even if they have the appearance of being alive.

/

Spend some time in jail dude...you will find most people there are either religious, or very religious.

Atheists tend to not want to spend their life in a prison considering they feel they already are...religious people can simply be forgiven by a priest or whatnot, and not worry about their current lifes conditions due to candy in heavy.

Sorry, your philosophy doesn't match up with reality...statistically atheists are far far less likely to go to prison than theists. you can disagree with facts as much as you want, but its still just the facts

You...-you- don't have compassion...you shouldn't reflect your viewpoint onto others..its very transparent.
You need a deity to stop you from doing all of that stuff clearly..hopefully you won't have a moment when you slip and rape or murder someone...because appearantly you can see that as an option to get what you want.

I would like to see proof that there is not a God or Creator.

I keep seeing the repsonse to those who say there is a heaven or God being 'prove it'.

Again I ask, prove that there is not. Or do you simply reside to thinking there is not because Mr Hawking said so?

Now...which one is the correct outcome...my objective fact, or yours?

Occam's Razor would suggest that his objective fact is more likely to be correct.

Anyways, I would like to see Stephen Hawkings theory on how consciousness arises in the magical orchestra of the brain. Somehow, when you get billions of electrical signals pulsating in the right rhythm and geometric pattern within close proximity, the universe becomes self-aware of its own existence. I would like to know his formulas describing this rhythm and geometric pattern so that we can determine that the requisite criteria is gone post-mortem. I mean, if it really comes down to just electrons moving and trillions of them working in harmony, biology isn't really required is it? The thing about consciousness, is that we know it exists, but we don't know if it exists in other things since we don't walk in those shoes. We posit consciousness only on the things that are similar to us...or at least that is the pattern that we have gone by. Another human being is probably consicous. A mammal is probably conscious given the similarities. A worm, perhaps is less likely because it is more dissimilar The problem is that when you get down to fundamental forces that govern everything in the universe (presumably consciousness and the properties thereof as well), everything is like us. There is nothing not like us. We are the same material in a rock, a tree, a planet, a star. Positional alignment is the only differentiator. We seem to describe everything in terms of forces that push and pull, and that is all we know. Yet, awareness is so different to it that it cannot be deduced to arrangements of forces in my opinion. Thus, frankly, Stephen Hawking's obsession with forces and mathematical models leaves him poorly equipped to grasp this subject properly.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by 547000
He's in for a pretty big shock. There is a heaven and a hell.

Prove it

I can't prove it. Ask God for the experience. There is a terrible spiritual fire out there.

No, you stated there is a heaven and hell. you...God didn't come down and state it...you did. So, unless you can point me to where I can talk directly with god to ask him about this, then you must take the responsibility as the statement being yours.

So...prove it.

or take back your claim and change it to "I believe..."

Originally posted by space cadet
I would like to see proof that there is not a God or Creator.

I keep seeing the repsonse to those who say there is a heaven or God being 'prove it'.

Again I ask, prove that there is not. Or do you simply reside to thinking there is not because Mr Hawking said so?

I would like proof that there are no invisible unicorns in the middle of the ocean.
until it is proven they are not there, then should we accept that they are there?

reply to post by SaturnFX

I wanted to just ask a simple question. Are you atheist? Please don't take offense.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by 547000
He's in for a pretty big shock. There is a heaven and a hell.

Prove it

I can't prove it. Ask God for the experience. There is a terrible spiritual fire out there.

No, you stated there is a heaven and hell. you...God didn't come down and state it...you did. So, unless you can point me to where I can talk directly with god to ask him about this, then you must take the responsibility as the statement being yours.

So...prove it.

or take back your claim and change it to "I believe..."

I don't just believe, but I know. God didn't speak it but He showed me. Pray to God and ask for the experience.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Invisible Unicorns in the middle of the ocean does not compare to faith. It is not documented and passed down through generations that Invisible Unicorns exsist in the middle of the ocean. It is not believed and followed by billions that Unicorns exsist in the middle of the ocean. There are documents as far back as man has exsisted that there is a Creator. A God. Something other than man that created us, and that we have purpose both here and in the afterlife.

You answer with a question and avoid the issue, the burden of proof.

Actually, I wish his words were taken with profound society impacting acceptance... I want to live in a society where people think they simply die...then they may take seriously the act of killing people. Its easy to kill people when you think your basically just helping them shed their skin.

Ohh please. People that didn't believe in heaven or hell have proven to be capable of killing as much as those that did/do. Pol Pot ring a bell? Joseph Stalin jog your memory? Kim Jong Il sounds familiar? Does Mao Zedong mean anything to you? Yes, these are generally recent occurances but so is large scale atheism or agnosticism. The atheists simply weren't around during the crusades or the inquisition to get their torture and murder on.

reply to post by grizzle2


I'll have to read up about that one further.
It's a bit of puzzler on face value.

Originally posted by 547000
I don't just believe, but I know. God didn't speak it but He showed me. Pray to God and ask for the experience.

Been there, done that.

Listen
I have had a few profound "ghost" experiences in my life. if someone asks me if ghosts exist, I say, well, I believe because of what I experienced, but I do not say they definately exists
because, first off, even with my subjective experiences, I don't know what I experienced...it was not measured, there is no evidence left behind, I cannot repeat it readily, etc...

I "believe" in something that can be labelled a ghost, but my belief and reality are two seperate things.

You say you experienced something...great...but what did you experience exactly? take a few minutes and reflect on it...now, try and give 5 different variations of what it could be besides what you accept it to be.

Start with "it was a hallucination" or "it was a manifestation of raw energy that I formed with my knowledge and reference".
If you do this honestly, you will realize what you experienced may have tons and tons of variations...you simply accepted one of many plausable realities as absolute truth. To me, thats intellectually lazy.

Originally posted by gemineye
reply to post by spacedonk

 

I don't even know what I believe in as far as heaven goes, but...

How the hell does Stephen Hawking know whether heaven exists or not? Last I checked, he hasn't died. How'd he find out?

edit on 5/16/2011 by gemineye because: (no reason given)

It's quite simple..it's like trying to prove that god(s) exists or that the tooth fairy exists...or maybe there's a pink invisible unicorn floating around in space. Guess what? Until there's measurable and viable evidence, there's no real reason to believe it does exist. Heaven is faith based, not based on facts.

Stephan Hawking has been wrong before, for I think 35 years? Not sure on exact number of years, but anyways he argued that black holes swallowed up everything.

He basically only reformed his theory because he was proved wrong and started having little credibility, just because he says it doesn't mean its true.

After being in tons of physics classes, and still in college with plenty more to take (god help me, no pun intended) I came to the conclusion a wile ago that we were just a brilliant mistake, with religion programmed into us to help us survive. Then I changed that and one reason why I started not believing in being a mistake is because of near death experiences and know two people who had them and are interesting to read up about.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by 547000
I don't just believe, but I know. God didn't speak it but He showed me. Pray to God and ask for the experience.

Been there, done that.

Listen
I have had a few profound "ghost" experiences in my life. if someone asks me if ghosts exist, I say, well, I believe because of what I experienced, but I do not say they definately exists
because, first off, even with my subjective experiences, I don't know what I experienced...it was not measured, there is no evidence left behind, I cannot repeat it readily, etc...

I "believe" in something that can be labelled a ghost, but my belief and reality are two seperate things.

You say you experienced something...great...but what did you experience exactly? take a few minutes and reflect on it...now, try and give 5 different variations of what it could be besides what you accept it to be.

Start with "it was a hallucination" or "it was a manifestation of raw energy that I formed with my knowledge and reference".
If you do this honestly, you will realize what you experienced may have tons and tons of variations...you simply accepted one of many plausable realities as absolute truth. To me, thats intellectually lazy.

I've experienced it many times, and do experience it on holy days. It was no hallucination. I promised that if He showed me I would believe and He did show me, so I have to keep my end of the bargain. There was a time I tried to explain it away as hallucination, but I no longer can. Only if you have not experienced it yourself can you try to explain it away.

It's a pity that billions are going to hell.

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Invisible Unicorns in the middle of the ocean does not compare to faith.

Blasphemy you non-unicornitarian...you would like for me to accept that the invisible unicorns are somehow diminished to your beliefs, but I know the truth
May the ocean horniness take pity on you, and on the day of the steed, when the unicorns come from the depth and ride across land, impaling those whom refused to accept their teachings, may they have mercy on you for your ignorant statement.

It is not documented and passed down through generations that Invisible Unicorns exsist in the middle of the ocean.

Bull!

There is more documented proof of unicorns in the ocean than there is of christianity!!!
or at least equal
here is a cousin species

Deny that!!!

It is not believed and followed by billions that Unicorns exsist in the middle of the ocean.

The same amount of people believe in dragons also (dragons are part of every religion on earth.)

If a million people believe in a stupid thing, its still a stupid thing, just a popular stupid thing

There are documents as far back as man has exsisted that there is a Creator. A God. Something other than man that created us, and that we have purpose both here and in the afterlife.

Yes, however, the oldest documents show a whole ton of gods that lived in clouds also..
why did we streamline the count down to 1, and why did we decide they didn't live in the clouds.

Again, just because a bunch of people believe in something stupid doesn't mean it therefore isn't stupid.

You answer with a question and avoid the issue, the burden of proof.

edit on 16-5-2011 by space cadet because: meh

The burden of proof will -always- be on someone that claims something to be true...always always.

I have proven that the unicorns in the ocean are equal, if not even more likely, than a biblical deity (due to their genetic cousins being documented)

Originally posted by 547000
I've experienced it many times, and do experience it on holy days. It was no hallucination. I promised that if He showed me I would believe and He did show me, so I have to keep my end of the bargain. There was a time I tried to explain it away as hallucination, but I no longer can. Only if you have not experienced it yourself can you try to explain it away.

Consider what you said.
If he showed you...therefore, you started with a belief system in place to begin with.
Then you magically experienced something that mirrored what you believed already.
then you spent a bit of time -considering- if you would accept your own experience manifested curiously exactly how you thought to begin with...deciding to go with your supernatural knowledge which you already "knew" beforehand.

Perhaps you believe it because it is what you demand...I guess we can use the bible for a reference here. there are many rooms in the lords mansion. For you, I guess you have created the room with hellfire and brimstone.

It's a pity that billions are going to hell.

If thats the case, then that at least proves the bible is a lie

reply to post by ncb1397


I don't really think this is true. I think atheism always has and always will be, and certainly existed (on historical record) in ancient Greece and Rome. The increase in atheism in recent years is attributable to the illumination modern science has provided for things that previously were most reasonably explained by religion.