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Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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It's possible, or at least conceivable, however, that neither we, nor God, are mere "things".

It's possible, we might have been completely wrong in our assumptions about what constitutes an individual life, or what life is to begin with. Perhaps... the whole notion of a separate self housed within the vessel of a body encapsulating the totality of "my life" is a false notion, and too narrowly solipsistic a POV relative to the larger interdependant framework that is the eternally unfolding process of ALL LIFE. to be taken seriously. That said perhaps the only reason we remain so tightly constrained in such a narrow view of self and others and of life itself, is that the alternative (heaven aka eternal life) is unthinkable and inconceivable, and unfathomably mysterious as the ultimate unknown uncertainty - when all the while, this was (is?) our true state of mind and being all along already, not as a "life in a shell" but as part of the entire process of life meeting life in eternity - included as it were, enveloped, the Prodigal Son returned, once dead but now alive, once lost now found in God's own eternal heavenly embrace - what if this is our "rebirth", at it's very realization in the fullness of time and history whereby Jesus may be considered not unlike an older brother who first had the wisdom and the courage to tread where even angels fear to tread, or cannot go (not being men).

There's a greater taking of responsibility and a greater accountibility to what matters most in the "heaven theory" provided we understand what is meant by the term "heaven". I don't think Stephen Hawking has the first clue, and again assumes, just like every other atheist, unapologetically taking advantage of every known Christian steroetype, while completely discarding the mystical experience of gnosis, and the suprarationalism, of the logos, something which he ought to understand if he didn't have an axe to grind..



edit on 16-5-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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I don't think hawkings would reject the possibility of a god or other "supernatural" phenomenon.

But the burden of proof is always on the people claiming things to be absolute.

We all know the arguments and both sides.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by CoolStoryMan
That's his opinion, it's not a fact.
Just like religious zealots who claim God exists, that's an opinion, not fact.
None of us really know for sure and won't know til "God" unveils himself, or when we die. simple as that

Then you, and I, and "we" will never see God if we cannot already see God looking at God from within God, simple as that.

The God people will use stupid arguments like this, let's see a physical form of this thing, not conjecture, not a book with a bunch of miracles that no longer happen.....reveal himself, prove its existence, is what I ask.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by CoolStoryMan
 

See my post and edit above for clarity.

God is not a thing, you and I, our TRUE SELF are not a thing.


edit on 16-5-2011 by NewAgeMan because: typo



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by spacedonk
 


Then why do so many people who participate in an Ayahuasca cerimony report seeing similar things? I think pinheaded, closed-minded responses to openness is the very problem with much of society...and no, I don't do drugs and don't recommend them. I do recommend opening your mind to the possibility that maybe you really don't know SH** about SH**...none of us do.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by TheFrenchPickler
 


I know I'm not really a "thing", I know what I'm not, which points to something else, yes an unknown, but one worth exploring, that's what we all are, so not only do we NOT know what's really going on, we don't even know just who we really are or why we're here, and the freedom inherent in the posing of that question, the free gift of life - it's got God's fingerprints, and loving sense of humor, written all over it.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by spacedonk
 
Yea, Hawking is so smart and knows everthing, bull#!
When he was in his Closed Universe Period, he stated that at some point everything would start to go in reverse, and everything that had happened in the foreward cycle would happen again, only in exact reverse.
Now even as a dumb kid in High school, I knew nothing of this sort could ever happen.

So now this Moron has the nerve to say there is nothing after death, maybe because his life sucks so bad he could never have it get any better.

You suck Hawking, and no you will never discover the secerts of the Universe, at least not in this life time.

Oh! Crap you won't in the next one either, because there aren't one, You suck Hawking. God must hate you, you ararogant butt hole, you lived for 40 years with a illness, that should have killed you 40 years ago.

If he's one of the best Physicist in the world, hate to see what one of the worst is.

"And the food will come out of your mouth and the poop go back in your butt", Hawking your a Moron.


edit on 16-5-2011 by googolplex because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
God didn't appear to me, but I experienced the sensations of the crucifixion. I felt the holes, the blood, and a wonderful light. I have also felt my body burning in a terrible fire. And no, nothing to do with fever.


I'm curious which types of mental diseases have you been diagnosed with?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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We live in the '' I want it now '' era. We are slap spoiled. We want every answer to every question, and if we can't have it now, it doesn't exist.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz
No surprise there.
I am a huge groupie of science, and don't follow any religion, that said, I've seen spirits, take it or leave it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not bonkers.
If Stevo doesn't have a rational explanation for it, then so be it...the universe it as wonderfully chaotic in its nature as it is ordered......we can't define all the symmetries it has in this life time.


I take from your avatar, you'r a women, or present yourself to be. The reason I would be so intimate on an utterly public web site is I try be open and honest. Anyone who has followed my posts on this site knows by now as I have had to repeat myself several times, I'm gay. And yet after reading what I did, I think I'm in love. If I may offer my own view? I am not just a "groupie of science" I do science and thats how I earn a living. And in your words as far as I'm concerned, you offer the best qualities of what science is, and thats nothing more then the best that humanity is.

You seek truth, and face the fear you encounter. Out standing. No "real" scientist is an atheist. But many are agnostic. The difference? An atheist "KNOWS" there is nothing more then what they can analyze, or observe. That is a non-sequitur. It is not by its nature, not logical, or scientific. But an "Agnostic" is "not sure". And only fools are positive. Of course we cannot "know everything," at least for the moment because are eyes are limited to the range they can see. Not just the spectrum of light but the prism of our individual and collective mind. In time this will change, we will not be so "limited'. As for Professor Hawking's comments? I admire him greatly, and anyone who has overcome his limitations I hold in great regard. And yet his "limitations" never defined him, indeed he remains one of the great "thinker's" of the last 100 years. Wow.

The bottom line? As an hoses't to God, card caring scientist you are now if you wish, a member of our "tribe" Sure, you could do better, but BOY!, DO WE have fun! Take care.

Bob.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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Steven Hawkings thoughts on the subject mean no more than anyone elses thoughts. Atheist, Christian, Bhudist
or whatever. Who cares what he thinks about that ? If he knew anything about it. I would first have to be convinced of that. So, I don't care. It would mean just as much to me if he swore up and down there was a heaven. I wouldn't believe it because he said so. moot.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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Does God have to exist for there to be an afterlife?

An interesting thought provoking webpage I have found whilst out searching for Einsteins theory of Relativity and his thoughts on what happens to energy. I got sidetracked!


If you have the time ( and energy after this long thread) well worth perusing. An Atheists point of view and pertinent to this discussion.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Maybe this has already been posted but here goes anyway.


A belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.


Likewise denying the possibility of an afterlife is because of fear of the unknown. Especially scientists who love to be able to predict their environment by using exact scientific models so it becomes less scary and more controllable have a particularly hard time coming up with models about the unknown. Confronted with that fear they take the easy way out by deying the possibility of an afterlife, what doesn't exist can't be feared.
edit on 17/5/2011 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by BLKMJK
 


I think it is irrational to come up with ideas of a supreme being that can do that and decide to hide himself. If my mom wants to talk to me she calls me. She and i talk, i can hear her and she can hear me.

The idea of god on the other hand holds people to praying and faith. NO communication. The religion then tells you are not perfect because you are sinful and hence not worthy of eternal life..who cares about eternal life? what's the point of eternal life anyway?


I really do appreciate your time and have enjoyed our discussion. I do however have no desire to pull the Judeo Christian world view into the equation but I should mention that hypothetically, if we were fallen creatures due to sin, than our perspective would be severely distorted due to our imperfection. What we in our imperfection consider irrational may in fact be reality. What I mean by that is it is like we are wearing a pair of dirty glasses and unless we subject to Gods will, we will never be able to see or understand the things of God. In no way am I implying that I do, I am just making a point.

I respect your opinion and have considered everything you have posted. Thank you again.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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The more I grow, the more I realize there are two types of people in this world; those who focus on the answers, and those who focus on the questions.

Both radical religious people and staunchly scientific are so focused on having the right answer, that they forget about all of the wonderful questions to ask the Universe. Yes, there is an afterlife or no, there is not. None of you will ever know until you die, so why worry so much about it?

The rest of us are focused on the possibilities of it all, which I have decided is much more fun.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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It's interesting to see so many interpretations of the Great Mysteries.

If, as some say, Death is an illusion, then concepts like "Heaven" and "Afterlife" are basically meaningless hot air in any context.

And, if as some say, our view of life is Illusionary then it might be that "all things not viewed through the eye of the Spirit are Maya (illusion) as well."

To make Truth of these and many other things then maybe it's possible that life never ends. Maybe we're Spirits on a Human Journey... not Humans on a Spiritual Journey... and that possibility changes everything.

And maybe figuring out the "why" of why we're making this journey is what provides meaning, and changes mere existence into everlasting LIFE.

In any case, I can't comment with any intelligence on SH scientific study but what I can say without fear of contradition, is that he doesn't have a clue about what's real.






edit on 17-5-2011 by Brown Bear because: (no reason given)

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Azp420
 


I don't mean to sound trite, but the first sentence of your reply infers that you completely missed my point. My point being, the natural human world cannot be compared to the supernatural world, in this case the afterlife. You started off making the comparison of what we have observed in behavior on earth. Making this comparison would be no different than applying the characterisics of gravity on say, Jupiter to the laws of physics on our planet. Make no mistake, I think your points are spot on. But, only in the context of our world.

Just as a side point, I want to address the notion of "having nothing to do" in heaven. This has been tossed around quite a bit on this thread. First off, this is not a bible scripture quotation forum. So, out of general consideration, I will spare those of other convictions lengthy dimestore bible preaching. My Christian faith is strong but I do not claim to be Reverend Mantis...just Mantisfortress. I digress, in the book of John, God and John are having a similar conversation to this one. In which God states, when we are with him we will all have a specific purpose with much to be done. What this could be is open to much interpretation. I have some ideas of what it could be but draw your own conclusions.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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Why is it every time this man has an opinion, however tangentially related to his field of expertise or not, must it become front page news?
A research breakthrough in relativistic physics I could see, but waxing philosophical I cannot.
Lately, each time he states publicly his opinion it seems it's lauded as irrefutable fact and paraded before the masses.
While his opinions are valid, he, no more or less than the least of us, is qualified to have the answers to questions such as this, or to the existence and intentions of non-terran life, or whatever else unknowable opinion he has next.
He is unnecessarily given far too much credit lately for every declaration he has made based simply on unrelated prior contributions to science.
edit on 5/17/2011 by dethduck because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/17/2011 by dethduck because: Proof reading



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by dethduck
Why is it every time this man has an opinion, however tangentially related to his field of expertise or not, must it become front page news?
A research breakthrough in relativistic physics I could see, but waxing philosophical I cannot.
Lately, each time he states publicly his opinion it seems it's lauded as irrefutable fact and paraded before the masses.
While his opinions are valid, he, no more or less than the least of us, is qualified to have the answers to questions such as this, or to the existence and intentions of non-terran life, or whatever else unknowable opinion he has next.
He is unnecessarily given far too much credit lately for every declaration he has made based simply on unrelated prior contributions to science.
edit on 5/17/2011 by dethduck because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/17/2011 by dethduck because: Proof reading


I love and admire Hawking but I could not agree more.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by mantisfortress
 


I could see your point, and the extent to which I agreed with it was that we both seemed to conclude that the classical or popular interpretation of heaven would not be desirable due to the problem of boredom. You argued that a supernatural increase in consciousness would solve that problem, as we would become a entirely different beings who are able to experience eternity without becoming bored of it.

I argued that from what we observe in increasing consciousness in earthlings only serves to make boredom a larger problem. This observation is limited to non-supernatural consciousness only however, so is not a definitive argument, but IMO still a valid trend.

My question is, how different must this new being or consciousness be in-order to allow eternity without boredom, and if it is greatly different, how will you know that you are still you? I suppose you would have to lose your human personality, as that has been formed from a basis of human level consciousness. You will no longer have your human body obviously. So what else is left beyond memories of events that happened an eternity ago?

Also, what was the point in the ~70 year stint on earth? Why not just go straight to the eternal party?

IMO the party has already started and most people are forgetting to dance.



edit on 17-5-2011 by Azp420 because: (no reason given)




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