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What are chemtrail believers covering up?

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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I find it very peculiar that so many people are SO sure that chemtrails exist.

And yet they only have spurious reasons for doing so - at best.

And some actively refuse to discuss their rasons at all - like this guy www.abovetopsecret.com... (discussion goes over onto page 9, possibly longer)

He's not the only one - comments about "refusing to spoonfeed" evidence to people or simlar are common

This guy refuses to "spoon feed" evidence & says "go find it yourself - www.abovetopsecret.com...

This guy says "we" get spoon fed "evidence" over & over again - and seems to ignore teh fact that such "evidence" as is presented (and yes certainly is repetitious - how about something new and actually credible??!!) is drivel - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another one who says go look elsewhere - www.abovetopsecret.com...

And one of my favourites is the guy who posted maybe hundreds of papers claiming they were evidence of chemtrails - and every single one of them was research, or a proposal, or some possible costings, etc.

Several of his posts are on this page - www.abovetopsecret.com... - links tocompanies doing atmospheric research, a space shuttle launch as evidence of chemtrails, research papers, linking 2 patents to gether as if they were the same thing (ie manufacturing "evidence" - even tho it still isn't actually evidence of anythign actually being done!), etc.

If chemtrail believers KNOW that chemtails exist, and REFUSE to provide evidence of it, then what is it they are covering up?

It seems to me all that is being provided as "proof" of chemtrail is what he chemtrail believers themselves call "dis-info" - en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 15-5-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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I'm very disapointed you left out my posts and threads on chemtrails.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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Here is Dutchsinses's works, he lays it all out with the weather manipulation along with metallic contrails. A whole list of stuff. Am so proud of him, he is good.
www.dutchsinse.com...
Oh, forgot about this one.
imageevent.com...



Edit to add another website.
edit on 5/15/2011 by stardust1955 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
I find it very peculiar that so many people are SO sure that chemtrails exist.

And yet they only have spurious reasons for doing so - at best.

And some actively refuse to discuss their rasons at all - like this guy www.abovetopsecret.com... (discussion goes over onto page 9, possibly longer)

He's not the only one - comments about "refusing to spoonfeed" evidence to people or simlar are common

This guy refuses to "spoon feed" evidence & says "go find it yourself - www.abovetopsecret.com...

This guy says "we" get spoon fed "evidence" over & over again - and seems to ignore teh fact that such "evidence" as is presented (and yes certainly is repetitious - how about something new and actually credible??!!) is drivel - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another one who says go look elsewhere - www.abovetopsecret.com...

And one of my favourites is the guy who posted maybe hundreds of papers claiming they were evidence of chemtrails - and every single one of them was research, or a proposal, or some possible costings, etc.

Several of his posts are on this page - www.abovetopsecret.com... - links tocompanies doing atmospheric research, a space shuttle launch as evidence of chemtrails, research papers, linking 2 patents to gether as if they were the same thing (ie manufacturing "evidence" - even tho it still isn't actually evidence of anythign actually being done!), etc.

If chemtrail believers KNOW that chemtails exist, and REFUSE to provide evidence of it, then what is it they are covering up?

It seems to me all that is being provided as "proof" of chemtrail is what he chemtrail believers themselves call "dis-info" - en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 15-5-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


nothing.. you'll have to do the research and observations YOURSELF.. I have a personal account of a commercial jet flying at near or below 5k altitude and SPRAYING something in the air.. right over my house, major populated area, do i have a picture to past on here NO .. do i have a video .. NO ..

Now go out and get the data YOURSELF .. make some observations, do a little personal research and then come back .. and I would call it suffient to say that a full 6 months of data would be a good start..



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Honestly?

I think they want them to be real.

I feel as if it is matter of faith, or at least that I am being asked to "have faith."

I can kind of understand almost. I have been interested in conspiracy theories for a very long time, and it is always disappointing when you realize one of your theories might be wrong or lacks evidence. It's happened to me a ton.

Which brings me back to the whole faith thing. Some people choose to believe anyways. Whether it be that they lack evidence, or that the evidence presented proves them wrong.

I just don't see how no one can actually show any evidence, and still believe they have enough.

My head hurts.

S&F



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by stardust1955
Here is Dutchsinses's works, he lays it all out with the weather manipulation along with metallic contrails. A whole list of stuff. Am so proud of him, he is good.
www.dutchsinse.com...


Yeerrrsss.......a massive assemblage of papers, patents, acts/laws, HAARP, etc., and nothing whatsoever to pull it all together to show how, when, why, who by, etc.

thank you for proving my point.

What is he tactually hiding behind that massive mountain of bumph??!!



Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
I'm very disapointed you left out my posts and threads on chemtrails.


Sorry - perhaps if you try harder

edit on 15-5-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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Chemtrails exist for one reason in my opinion, to experiment with attempts at altering regional and global temperature variations.


People asking for documented proof must have just woken up yesterday. The sheer volume of classified information is just beyond staggering. If there was a documented case of Obama having diarrhea it would be classified.

Now you're trying to paint ATS members as covering up something? Did you even think this through before posting? How could the claim of chemtrails be in any way considered an attempt at covering something up? Just... No.
edit on 15-5-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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Cloud seeding

Chemtrailing has been going on for some time now. Cloudseeding is chemtrailing.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Tephra
 


Well at least your not stating your opinion as fact.

But to think there would be no evidence, discounts the sheer number of people in the aviation business. Or in it as a hobby for that matter. If these "chemtrails" are so common, evidence would exist to support that they do.

Having worked for Lockheed, this kind of offends me, and probably many others that have worked on, built, flew, etc.

So yes, I ask for evidence. Because I have seen none. And i do not believe that every person in the aviation business is complicit in covering this up, to the extent it would have to be covered.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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The term chemtrails covers a whole slew of meanings and motivations for what is being sprayed and why. Here is just one of them...


GAO Report Admits ‘Chaff’ — Lab Report Reveals Much More Last May a family in Iowa contacted the office of Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) to report the constant criss-crossing of “chemtrails” in the sky above their neighborhood. They received back from the senator’s office a General Accounting Office (GAO) report on “military chaff” and the material safety data sheet for aluminum-coated fiberglass fibers being spread-seven days a week for several hours each day-in the skies above their home. The chaff is spread by pilots learning how to mask planes or send false radar images. It was reported that the military also has lead-based chaff, but that it is not being used at this time. Chaff was used by the military in Europe in WWII and, according to the GAO, had been used in training here at home since the 50s. Once chaff reaches the ground, it breaks down into particles small enough to inhale. Though military spokespeople insist that chaff is not harmful, the GAO report concluded that health effects are unknown and more studies are needed.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


Oh, for the love of.....

Chaff is NOT a "chem"-trail!!

I guess you are trying to *help* the "chemtrail cause"....but, this isn't. You're hurting it.

Well...they hurt themselves, and this is actually a prime example of how it is done.......



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


No, actually you're wrong about this. I find it amusing the way you people will do anything you can to try to explain it away even when it's admitted. Your side is so predictable! That's okay, just keep wearing your blinders if it lets you sleep at night.


The Idaho Observer reported with considerable skepticism that the General Accounting Office admitted that chemtrails exist but that they are “merely” fiberglass particles coated with aluminum whose health effects are unknown but whose existence is now acknowledged after decades of official denial.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


You posted an un-sourced "something", and claim it to be factual???

The topic of CHAFF has been hashed out, already. You can look it up, get it's definition, go look at images, read valid scientific papers.....

You will be laughed at, if you go some where and tell knowledgeable people that chaff is a "chem"-trail....

Heck even your un-sourced snippet says what they are!!! (nevermind the nonsense about a GAO flunky saying "chem"-trails...IF your source is valid, let's know the context. (Time, place, who what when were....) Likely, some guy just trying to get a "chemmie" off his back and out of his face...)








edit on Mon 16 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 




.....is now acknowledged after decades of official denial.


Where is it acknowledged? If it is, there will be record of it somewhere.
But there has been nothing ever produced that confirms this statement.
It's what debunkers have been looking for. Yes, I said debunkers.
Perhaps we really are blind and dumb. So show us we are. Produce something that supports your claims.
Please.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by stardust1955
 


Dutchsine gets so much wrong it's funny.
A "ring" and 'square" on weather radar is just a computer glitch in information and nothing else. These things are acknowledged and studied. Every circle he points out has at it's center a radar facility. That should be a clue. And then he says where these occur there is going to be bad weather. Really? That's what any radar sweep is showing......bad weather. It's why we have them.
And his motives for doing this are? He's unemployed. So he is traveling the country, taking radiation readings. On whose dime? Face it, he's a shill for the believer's side. Like so many others.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by Komodo
 





I have a personal account of a commercial jet flying at near or below 5k altitude and SPRAYING something in the air

Being able to judge altitude from the ground requires a lot of specialized training and use. How do you know what the altitude was? Have you been a pilot, ATC, or military training? Where is the nearest airport? What made you think they were spraying anything? What was it they were spraying? What kind of plane? All of this is important to know to give your observation any validation.



make some observations, do a little personal research and then come back .... and I would call it suffient to say that a full 6 months of data would be a good start..



Observations of what? Visible plumes behind airplanes? Why? They are contrails. They behave as contrails. They look like contrails. 80+ years of study shows what all the observations of contrails really are. I've done personal research. I've looked at both sides. Science wins. I've yet to see anything about the science debunked. When I've asked for this, I have often been insulted with all kinds of names and claims about my motives and mental capacity. Or told to research it myself.
If you think simply observing something that high over your head for six months without testing is going to prove anything, you have not researched the science behind what you see. I suggest you do that and come back.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


Fiberglass????? oh my goodness the insanity



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by Tephra
 


I think he is right. Usually what believers are trying to cover up is that they don't know enough science to do a valid research attempt. Daily we are asked about what the "X" and "grid" are, or why if it is hot and dry where they live can contrails form, or are told that "chemtrails" cannot exist. These are all really basic reasoning, yet it eludes believers.
When believers say that there have been tests for barium and aluminum, but all the evidence they produce to bolster their claims is easily proven wrong, they are covering up the fact that they are not informed about chemistry and geology.
When they ask how two planes can fly in the same sky and make different contrails, they are covering up that they don't know about the atmosphere or planes.
When they say there is a wealth of information and admissions and never produce anything to show they are right, they are covering up that they know what they know only from "chemtrail" sites, not from balanced research.
Why do I know that what you see are contrails? What part of the science would you like to know about? The non-believers have vast amounts of science studies that we would be glad to share with you. By not sharing with us, it seems as though you really do have something to hide.
Produce something. Show us we are wrong.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


SIGH...I'll try (since for some reason at least three people --- so far --- decided to *star* that post, though it lacked some substantial details....):


I have a personal account of a commercial jet flying at near or below 5k altitude and SPRAYING something in the air.. right over my house, major populated area, do i have a picture to past on here NO .. do i have a video .. NO ..


OK....as Stars15k asked already, those were perfect points, for an answer.

First, the estimated altitude of 5,000 feet? We can ask you to compare, and trust your "truthiness", by taking some time to actually go out and do some plane-spotting, where you can independently verify their altitudes....near a major airport, and using (if in the USA) Flight Aware.

This exercise will give you a perspective to what relative size various airliners appear, when at that height above you. To ascertain whether your initial claim of "5,000 feet" was accurate, or not.


Next, from you, the recollection of type, if possible..how many engines, would be a starting point? Also, again...was there a major airport nearby? Reason for that, is my next *guess* as a possibility of what you may have seen....

DO you know what it looks like when an airliner "dumps" fuel, in the air? Not all jets have this ability, it is usually limited to the larger ones, "jumbos" or widebodies. The procedure is ONLY done in extreme cases, when necessary, to reduce weight for an unscheduled landing, for whatever reason. IF it was a fuel dumping (jettison) and over the populated area, then it was a dire emergency the airplane was experiencing. When time is not critical, and a dump is needed, then it is performed in a location that will be less impacted, by the pollution.

*Time critical"* reasons can be because of a serious mechanical difficulty, to include an engine power loss, or fire, etc...or, even just a medical emergency onboard, where it is essential to get the patient on the ground, for proper medical treatment.

HERE...this is a perfect example of a situation, filmed from the ground, as the jet (in an emergency involving the hydraulic system, loss of fluid and possible flight control failure, as result) is dumping fuel, whilst on final approach to the landing runway. This, to me, looks to be approximately 1,500 to 2,000 feet in altitude as it passes overhead (although, the camera operator may have used his zoom, so it is an estimate):




Compare and contrast that to what you say you observed. NOTE the location of the TWO (2) fuel jettison nozzles, on the trailing edge of the wings, well outside the location of the two engines.

Is this similar to what you saw???









edit on Mon 16 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Here's an excellent photo of a plane dumping fuel. (747-400, PH-BFG)

Note it looks very different to a contrail.




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