WANTED 1 intelligent educated Christian to answer some questions on faith

How ironic it is, that athiests denounce intolerance...and yet they are the most intolerant of all.

Athiests rail against Christians as being narrow-minded...yet they denounce ALL who believe in anything spiritual.

Athiests "preach" against sharing one's spiritual convictions, but it is the athiests who are militant and rude andit is the athiests that constantly insult believers and it is the athiests who REPEATEDLY start theseridiculous trolling threads.

On a whole, if ANYONE is guilty of prosilitation on ATS, it is the ATHIESTIC TROLLS...

reply to post by paul777


I think the amount of spelling mistakes and errors in your grammar answers the question of intelligence.
You might have checked them first before posting but you probably know you are right no matter what the rest of us think.

reply to post by marriah3330


This is so far removed from racism it isnt even in the same galaxy!!

Racism is based on ignorance and bigotry. my observations are simply observations without bias.
Do you seriously dispute most of the posts of a religious nature on this site are just drivel? Id say about 70% that Ive seen are all talking about Jesus return and the rapture or gods retribution for our evil ways etc etc yeah nothing stupid about that

As for studies or proof, if I had of thought anyone would dispute it I would have included them

Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God

belief in god and IQ level

I apreciate thats only quoting a gallop poll but many proper studies have been done and they all conclusively arrive at the same place.

Just because one goes to church does not mean that they are true believers. Many of these "churches " are what I think the bible talks about when it says, "false profits" and Wolves in sheep's clothing.

My point exactly!!!!!!!

In my opinion all churches are false prophets, all organised religion is set up to control people and move their resources towards a select few.

The real church, when translated into the original language is to mean, the body of christ, and it says the body of Christ is the believers that come together in fellowship. Fellowship has nothing to do with church in the sense you think

The bible says to not worship me in my name in temples made by mans hands, because I am NOT there, but instead when two or more believers come together (fellowship), I AM there

How can you not be on my side
This is exactly my point, according to christianities holy book most of what they do in ritual is against god!!!
Organised religion has been pushing for nearly 2000 years the line that they are the exclusive path to god. This is my problem not peoples belief in a god.

So how are you going to weed out the ATS members that are "intelligent Christians"?

It will just be judged by me, this isnt about being scientific this is about me having a genuine question and hoping to get an answer that I consider to be rational.

When you say lies in the bible, are you even talking about what you have read yourself, or are you talking about what others that supposedly teach the bible say it means

Despite the impression you have of me I am a keen student of world religions, yes Ive read the Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Mahabrhata, Torah, Tibeten book of living and dying and a few others.

Not everyone can interpret the bible correctly so some that try to teach it sometimes get the wrong message across, contradict each other, it is people that get it wrong.....

There is another possibility, the people who compiled the bible didnt have God in mind at all and instead it was chopped to pieces and put together again to serve a certain dogma?
I know thats just crazy talk isnt it, as if a book as important as the holy bible which was put together by a group of men whos purpose it was to control people could be wrong

1) sorta true, they came together to create a cohesive religion as Constantine saw the potential for instability if people believed different things, there was nothing benevolent about it. The purpose of including that was to see how an intelligent person aknowledges it.

2) seriously!!! did you even read the thread or just the OP? Jesus last words what were they? the bible has 3 conflicting answers. There are others but an intelligent person would see that and not be blinded by what other peole have told them. The fact none of you have ever picked up on this makes me question if any of you have read the bible and if you did why you didnt notice such a glaring inconsistancy.

3) once again you obviously didnt read the thread. Indoctrination is the correct term for giving religious instruction, any negative conotation you have with the word is not based on its actual meaning. I am not saying belief in god is false Im saying blindly following someone elses version of what god is or wants is not only false but stupid (or to put it another way, lacking in intelligence)
Your church sounds different and I think it seems nice, could be something I would appreciate.

4) hmmmm... interesting answer. Ill chew on that some more.

5) LOL so true so true, seriously if you hadnt of jumped on your high horse and got your knickers in a knot before you bothered to read the thread you would have realised were on the same side.

Peace to you as well

P.s no star from me as you made the effort to write a lengthy post without bothering to read the thread, several of your issues had been addressed on pages 2 and 3. In my opinion this isnt a sign of an intelligent person

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
You are going to be looking a long time for an "intelligent Christian". It is an oxymoron.

Intellegence is a matter of opinion, Wisdom is a Fact if you think someone is smart there is always someone smarter...Steven hawkings probaly couldnt walk into a group of Kids and be Intelligent about the things we are...its a matter of opinion But having the Wisdom to understand what these things are and mean is a Fact without Wisdom there is no such thing as intelect.

I'm not sure how intelligent I am, but I do know a few things or rather, I've done a wee bit of research into biblically-related topics. First, in defense of the ancient texts:

1. Translation bias creates the illusion of contradiction and in some cases, hides contradiction.

2. These texts were never meant to be taken as if they were directly from the mouth of "God."

3. The believer's relationship is with God, not with a book. So it's a case of misplaced focus.

4. Historically and prophetically (time tables), the biblical texts are pretty accurate, where not
mistranslated or misunderstood.

Second, in defense of christians:

1. An experience is an experience. Subjective, yes. But not any less real to the person experiencing it
than your own personal experience.

2. They suffer from misplaced focus: The book is not the word of God. Jesus is the word of God. You do need to read the book to know this (typically), but the book itself isn't what saves you. It's informational. As evidence of this, I point to the persons who were saved by word of mouth rather than word on paper.

3. Have been historically saddled, as a group, with the behaviors of any one of its members. This is like saying it's okay to blame all men for the behavior of one man.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


hey dude,

Thanks for putting together an intelligent non confrontational argument even though you dont agree or most likely even like what I had to say

Im gonna go to bed soon and wanna get through alll the posts that are here before I do so Im gonna keep it brief

1) I dont necessarily agree buts it a good answer

2) Thank you very much for being honest, Now 2 follow up questions. Does it affect your faith? what inconsistancies as a believer did you find? (not being a pr!ck I genuinely want an intelligent opinion from the other side of the fence, funny how most religious types get upset when you dont automatically believe what they do)

3) In hindsight I realise your right, but not because the words wrong but because people have a negative idea of the words meaning. It simply means to impart knowledge from 1 particular viewpoint. Another genuine question, would you dispute thats what religious education is? forget the negative assciations and just focusing on the words actually meaning do you think indoctrination is an inappropriate word?

4) In hindsight I also should have said catholic as opposed to christian in the thread title, christianity is very diverse and from what I can gather Gnostic Christianity sounds like it could be up my alley.

5) Seriously dude much respect
you have your beliefs which I respect but you also have an opinion and independant thought which I not only respect but applaude.

I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions

Cheers

P.s star for you

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Vicky32

 

You're showing your bias by using the term indoctrinated... and proving you're not genuine when you say your thread is not intended to attack anyone.

Precisely why I stopped reading the after the first sentence of the OP. It's a prejudicial rant written in question form, and nothing more.

But yeah, I'm the fool. *drinksmoreKool-Aid*

LMAO

yeah it was so offensive your still posting here, seriously mate take a cement pill and harden up. Even people who disagreed more than you still bothered to stick on topic and even *gasp* answered the questions.
But I can see how for people of low intelligence trolling is much easier as you dont need to have original thoughts you just disagree with what someone else says, job done.

If I didnt find you so amusing Id probably be annoyed

reply to post by 297GT


Did I really come across as a rabid athiest???

It wasnt my intention as I am most definately not, I know theres a god or prime mover of some description but I also believe its futile to think about it/him/her to much as we couldnt even begin to comprehend its/his/her will or plans.

The low intelligence comes into it when people blindly follow what other PEOPLE tell them.
Sounds like you are not one of those people.

thanks for posting

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

I also believe that over time, men seeking power and control over the masses perverted the message of the Bible, or they tailored the Bible to fit a particular agenda, which is where the council of Nicea comes into play. Who gave those men the authority to determine what should be in the Bible and what should not?

Don't fall for this internet myth. The cannon of scripture was never discussed at the Nicean Council. The council was convened to address the "Arian Controversy" dealing with the deity of Jesus Christ. Don't help to perpetuate this lie, expose it.

Nicea: The "Real" Story VS The Facts

Dude stop it..... I nearly wetting myself with laughter.

You use as a refference for information on the council of nicea something called serious christian.org

ROFLMFAO

yeah Im sure thats not biased in anyway.

Seriously do you do stand up when your not trolling the boards at ATS?

reply to post by undo

Jesus is the word of God.

you may find this interesting

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. -Revelation

His purpose was to make One new man out of two -Effesies

reply to post by jbmitch


Hallejuyah!!!

Another educated non drone like christian.

Despite the fact you called me a troll (I think you were reffering to me) star for you.

religion is a personal journey and to blindly accept what other people say because they wear special clothes or whatever is the height of stupidity.

Cheers dude

reply to post by Beavers


LMAO

cheers for the honest and blunt replies.

I respect that you are confident enough with your faith to not feel I was attacking you or being a troll even if I dont agree with you.

Not exactly what I was expecting but this in my book counts as an intelligent response.

The man is unimportant the message should be the focus.

Much respect, star for you

reply to post by Forevever


OK that intrigues me

I wouldnt think you were crazy and I would love to hear it, only 10 days ago!!! DAMN!!!!!

If your not comfortable posting it on the thread pls pls pls U2U it to me.

Cheers

reply to post by Rustami


i can hear the 2nd chapter of acts (musical group) singing, "Well, haven't you heard," (one of their songs, i think it was on the mansion builder album) or this one from Narnia (forgive the poor recording, someone must've used the original album to record this lol)

BUT LISTEN TO THE WORDS! gives me the goose bumps

Why is there more post about the ignorance or intelligence of christians? Where are the post mocking the muslim intelligence (look at the president of Iran's advisor arrested for consulting the Jinn) Or how about Jewish or Buddhist?

Who is anyone on here to question the intelligence or beliefs of another human being, Look at the I.Q. scale, pick the person with the highest I.Q. Great now all you have done is pick the smartest monkey out of the pile.

One who, even the smartest of us can not explain what causes gravity, who can not give us a unified theory, can still not cure the common cold, who still is trapped with in the confines of its own planet, let alone solar system.

Yeah, we got it all figured out us smart monkeys, the knowledge of the smartest of us pales in comparison to the vast knowledge we simply don't know.

reply to post by RealAmericanPatriot


Sorry Im not sure I understand

Are you calling me a troll for starting a thread that had some observations and genuine questions you didnt agree with?

If you had bothered to read the thread you would have noticed

1) Im not an atheist Im just not an IsmIST

2) everyone who answered me in a polite manner and didnt take the OP out of context or get their panties in a bunch recieved a couteous reply and thank you.

Once again people at least read the first few pages of a thread before posting.

P.s If you werent calling me a troll I apologise for getting my panties in a bunch

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

I also believe that over time, men seeking power and control over the masses perverted the message of the Bible, or they tailored the Bible to fit a particular agenda, which is where the council of Nicea comes into play. Who gave those men the authority to determine what should be in the Bible and what should not?

Don't fall for this internet myth. The cannon of scripture was never discussed at the Nicean Council. The council was convened to address the "Arian Controversy" dealing with the deity of Jesus Christ. Don't help to perpetuate this lie, expose it.

Nicea: The "Real" Story VS The Facts

I have felt this way long before the internet. It may be wrong, or it may not be, but I came to this conclusion based on several books that I have read. I am not simply regurgitating something that I saw on some irrelevant blog or website. I will certainly look into your point of view, thanks for the information.

reply to post by benrl


I chose Christians because I dont often find Jews or Muslims in this site telling everyone their prophets are gonna be here with their spaceship next week to take all the good people away before the aliens come to enslave the rest of us.

And the questions were directed at christians but the study didnt discrimate against type of religion just level of religious belief.

I personally think blind followers of any organised religion need their heads examined.

But thats just my opinion and Im no one so please people no need to jump down my throat on that.

dude, there's a whole 600 reply thread dealing with your exact thread. www.abovetopsecret.com... search around before you post.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by benrl

 

I personally think blind followers of any organised religion need their heads examined.

i've pondered these questions as well, and my solution was to look at it objectively (since all my past experience had been subjective). this is what i arrived at:

religion is another word for group think, which applies to social structure. social structure is apparent from the earliest civilization, and has been the glue that keeps the entire machine in operation.

the first laws were the first religious precepts. they were inseparable. in other words, law=religion. law typically is there to keep the animal behavior at a minimum and the higher conscious being at the forefront. this, by definition, applies to the sciences as well as you are unlikely to find a herd of cows deliberating on gravity and physics (they inherently understand the basic principles via their programmed dna), whereas in a herd of humans, you may find them not only deliberating on physics but other higher conscious thoughts, as well.

we can program ourselves.