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WANTED 1 intelligent educated Christian to answer some questions on faith

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
 



Please answer me..... was jesus wrong when he said John the baptist was Elijah?


I've answered that twice now, not going to a third time.

And as far as reincarnation being accepted for a long period of time is irrelevant. So was the flat-Earth theory, and blood-letting to cure illness. The length of time an idea is accepted is irrelevant to it's truthfulness.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


NO it doesn't say that man, you can read can't you?

It does NOT say "men die once"....


Forgive me, if you're incapable of doing a Greek word-study then I apologize. Since that's too difficult a task then what does a modern version of the Bible say about Hebrews 9:27? Maybe the 1611 KJV is too difficult?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 





I'm a Christian because I believe in Jesus' words (Logos), but that doesn't mean I can't look at the words of others. When you look at them, you'll see some parallels and realize they are not completely different.


I would go as far as to say they arent completely different their practically indentical. At their heart all religions have the same message be good to one another, look after yourself and appreciate give props to the universal creator in whatever form it takes in your mind.

Very well put. star for you



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


NO it doesn't say that man, you can read can't you?

It does NOT say "men die once"....


Forgive me, if you're incapable of doing a Greek word-study then I apologize. Since that's too difficult a task then what does a modern version of the Bible say about Hebrews 9:27? Maybe the 1611 KJV is too difficult?


Ya i don't speak greek, but i read english which you obviously don't.

Straight from the KJV, that verse doesn't say Men die once...

How about we have a civil conversation for once...eh.

Its not my problem you don't understand what it says, even though its very clear

*shrug* whatever though




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 



I think you're misunderstanding.. If Christians don't "feel bad" then they aren't in the right mind. A real Christian is someone who is ashamed for what they do.. they hate what they do.. they WANT to change.. What you're thinking are the Christians who think Grace gives them the right to Sin, which isn't the case.


I'm not misunderstanding anything. That's why I said "2%" and not 100%...



Billions of people? Don't exaggerate. There isn't billions of people who donate to the poor, spread peace and love, and do all those wonderful things. If there were, this world would be a much different place.


More than 100 billion people have lived on earth. Even if only 1% of those people were good people, that would be 1,000,000,000...



And no, God is not "sending" anyone to hell. I'll give you an analogy:


Here's another analogy;

A homeless kid has spent all his life wandering the streets, he has no money, rarely eats, and only has tattered rags as clothes. 10 different wealthy men approach him and offers him a new home: a family, food, clothes, an education; a life. "But only under one circumstance. You have to believe that I'm going to give it to you and not any of these other guys. If you don't accept, well, I'm going to lock you in a 4'x4' cell and torture you the rest of your life"

What does he do?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


LMAO

so typical of religious types, I dont agree or say something you dont like so youll ignore it or attack it.

One or two out of place or slightly harsh words and you wont answer some valid questions.

Youll probably say they arent valid but since I was curious and the answers to those questions from genuine christians is the whole point of the thread I would say the fact your still here just proves your being facetious.

Im going to assume since the only 2 intelligent responses Ive received so far have been from quasi christians (no offence intended guys) you being a full on IsmIST wouldnt have anything worthwhile to add anyway.

I look forward to your next deflection



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff


1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it?

Yes the council of Nicaea is where the Bishops of the early Church gathered to decide between Trinitarianism and Arianism. It wasn't controlled or moderated by Constantine, this is a myth. Infact, despite the majority decision on Trinitarianism, Constantine and his mother were pretty much Arians. Constantine was baptized by an Arian bishop, so he did not force Trinitarianism, he just wanted an Orthodoxy to be established to end confusion. I think Athanasius defended the Trinity very well and I think the Bible clearly shows Yeshuah to be God. Yes, it's confusing but how could the human mind really wrap around the nature of an omnipotent being?


2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible?

Apologetics. There is an answer to nearly every "contradiction" you might find. Infact, there was a guy who answered every last annotation in the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. Try tekton.org and apologeticspress.org


3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life?

I was brought up in the Roman Catholic Church, but never had really zealous parents. I too thought that the Bible was written by men and that there were problems with it. For a long time I was an agnostic leaning toward theism, but having no means to defend Christianity I didn't stick to it. I couldn't have faith, but at the same time I knew that to accept atheism was to accept Nihilism because they are intrinsically tied together. I had an encounter with a demon as a teenager (take that as you will) which ruled out atheism for sure, but I was still agnostic about what to believe, all I knew is that there was some form of spirit world. Later I fell into utter despair due to terrible events in my life and I turned to the Bible as a last resort and it fell open to the Sermon on the Mount. It struck a chord so deep in my heart that I couldn't ignore it. I read and read and studied everything I could get my hands on. Faith was still tentative at this point because I couldn't answer anti-theists who pointed out questionable parts of the Bible, so I really got into apologetics and I found an answer to every single objection. At this time I was also listening to a band called Sleep, which is a stoner sludge metal band. I noticed that they had alot of Biblical themes in their songs, and me absorbing any kind of Christianity I could find (especially the personal experiences of others) thought "someone in this band is Christian". I did the research and it turned out that one of their guitarists disapeared and turned up in an Eastern Orthodox Monastery. He started an Orthodox Zine and outreach program to punks and generation X called "Death to the World". It spoke of Christian struggle and those who died for the truth. It wasn't complacent or comfortable and it assessed the fallen state of the world in a way I understood. The founder of this monastery was Seraphim Rose (he's the monk in my avatar) and his writings are the best assessment of the spirit of the times I've ever seen. He was an atheist, was part of the Beat Generation, personally studied under Allen Watts, and left it all to become one of the greatest Orthodox Monastics in centuries, and is currently being considered for sainthood.
I spent the next 6 moths studying Orthodoxy and relearning Christianity from an Eastern perspective (sin is sickness, not a juridical offense; there is no physical separation from God in Hell, the fires of hell and the light of Heaven are two experiences in the presence of God) and then finally I impulsively sent an email to the Priest of the nearest Orthodox Church asking for help in becoming Orthodox. At the time, I had no job or car and the members of the Church went out of their way to drive me to the Church, helped me become aquainted with the Divine Liturgy and services, taught me and mentored me, and were generally the nicest people I have ever met in my life. The people are flat out amazing. Everyone is involved, everyone strives to act as Yeshuah taught, and everyone knows their theology and history. My life has become indescribably better since I sought out Christ and came into his Church
4)what do you think of the Vatican?
In the early Catholic Church the Bishop of Rome was seen as the "first among equals". This was a position of honor for his prestigious Patriarchate, but in a council, he was the same as any other bishop. The Bishop of Rome was often the mediator in disputes over heresies, because most heresies never made it that far west aside from Marcionism. However, due to language differences and a higher concentration of learned theologians in the East, the Roman Patriarchate was somewhat left out. Juridical thinking and proto gnostic thought crept in thanks to Augustine (good Christian, bad theologian) and for the most part went unchecked, because of language barriers and Rome being the only Western Latin Patriarchate. Then a rogue council in Toledo trying to address arianism, altered the Nicene creed to say, "I believe in the Holy spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the son". It really was a matter of semantics, but the issue was that this small council altered the creed without the consent of the Church and it was spreading all throughout the Latin Rite and was being promoted by Charlamagne. The East and West argued and argued and then a cardinal tried to excommunicate the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Bishop of Rome claimed supremacy over the Church. This made the schism. All other Patriarchates remained Orthodox: Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. Every crime against humanity the Roman Catholic Church is infamous for occurred after the Schism: the Crusades (supported by Augustine's "Just War" ideas) of which the Orthodox were victims (the Crusaders sacked Constantinople), the inquisition, and the counter reformation were all after they broke off from the Church. I think the Vatican is the rotting carcass of Roman imperialism and is a monument to worldly and dead Christianity. Do I think RCs are going to hell? No, or at least I hope not. I just loathe the Vatican, all it has done is stain the image of Christianity for a thousand years. I also feel like the RCC totally failed me.


5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today?

He is around today, my friend. Al Maseeh Qam! Christ Is Risen!
But to answer your question, I don't think he looks kindly on American Christianity which is weak and complacent and much more of a cultural thing than most will admit. I think the strongest centers of Christianity are in the places where it is still persecuted and those that keep it do so at the risk of their own lives. Regardless, there is no overall state of Christianity. The Kingdom of God is within. In every outward structure there are those who truly follow Christ and those who only appear to. I do believe in the Church of Christ here and now, and I believe in it's decisions and councils, but the grace of the Church is a trancendent thing. No one individual is the perfect expression of the faith nor is there any infallible individual, but when all of the Bishops sit down to discuss the faith, God will lead them. This isn't "blind" faith, I have faith in the Church based on prior performance: Nicaea made sense, Chalcedon made sense, the councils just make sense and so I have faith in the Church. That being said, going to Church and doing everything right, doesn't always change your heart and I think a lot of people would be surprised to find themselves on the path away from life. All of this is redundant however, because Christ knew exactly what would happen once the Church grew: there would be division, persecution, and complacency. So, I kind of think he would say, "I told you so"
edit on 16-5-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Ya i don't speak greek, but i read english which you obviously don't.


You don't need to be able to "speak" Greek to do a word-study, that's why they make Lexicons, Concordances, and Blue-Letter Bible.com


Eat your heart out with all the other translations HERE.



edit on 16-5-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 



so typical of religious types, I dont agree or say something you dont like so youll ignore it or attack it.


Hardly, as you can clearly see I've had no issues at all engaging in deep theological questions with numerous posters in this very thread. If you'd like my opinion of the questions in the OP don't present it as your prejudicial arbitrary opinion.

I'm not here to extinguish the fires on your straw men.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 




Ya i don't speak greek, but i read english which you obviously don't.


You don't need to be able to "speak" Greek to do a word-study, that's why they make Lexicons, Concordances, and Blue-Letter Bible.com


Eat your heart out with all the other translations HERE.



edit on 16-5-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Look you have whatever translation you want. Do your greek word studies to find all the info you can...

The fact is i know what you believe, and your beliefs arn't in your own bible.

I've done greek word studies years ago, so try not to put yourself on a higher level then me.

So study away my friend.... i finished my studying, i know the answers i was looking for. They came from reading the words in the book, not adding what i think it says like i've seen you do on two occasions now...




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


Very eloquently put


you answered wonderfully,

Next questions

6) do you believe Jesus was God incarnate? physically rose to heaven?
7)what do you believe/been taught happens to non christians when they die? is it automatic hell?
8)what do you think about deities from before Jesus having so many similarities? E.g Mithrantis born same day, virgin birth, resurection etc etc
9)would it affect your faith if it was found that jesus did marry, have children etc etc
10)how important is it to your faith that jesus even existed at all?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



I've done greek word studies years ago


You claimed a post ago that one needed to "speak Greek" in order to do a word-study, and that you do "not" speak Greek.

Now you're lying to me. I'm going to go to bed, it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who is purposely deceiving.

Gnight.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



I've done greek word studies years ago


You claimed a post ago that one needed to "speak Greek" in order to do a word-study, and that you do "not" speak Greek.

Now you're lying to me. I'm going to go to bed, it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who is purposely deceiving.

Gnight.


Once again, as usual you misinturpreate what i said... Yes i said i don't speak greek, i didn't say i've never done a word study, nor did i say i've never used a lexicon or a concordance. I was being a smart ass...

Secondly i don't lie, theres no need for it.

And thirdly, its impossible to have a conversation with someone about religion when that person doesn't read the words that are there. I mean, forget the bloody lexicon.... if you can't read one simple line such as "Once men die", as opposed to "men die once"... I think ye might need to head back to school.

G'night!


edit on 16-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 





Hardly, as you can clearly see I've had no issues at all engaging in deep theological questions with numerous posters in this very thread


LMAO

your hilarious dude, Im just gonna assume your joking from now on.

You call arguing semantics and sentence structure "deep" and "theological"


Being the bible basher I have "arbitrarily" classified you as Im pretty confident if you had anything of value or intelligence to add you would have done so by now.

But your right, Im the one who misses out on what Im sure would have been very insightful and enlightening response to my questions and all because I couldnt be nicer or because I made an "arbitrary" statement.

Id call you a loser and a sook but if I did a MOD would come along and delete the post so Ill hold my typing fingers back and just say "answer the questions and get over whatever imagined slight thats been commited against you or your fellow bible bashers" or dont I dont actually care as once again I think the odds of it being worthwhile are about the same as Jesus himself posting on this thread.

Cheers



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by kallisti36
 


Very eloquently put


you answered wonderfully,

Next questions

6) do you believe Jesus was God incarnate? physically rose to heaven?
7)what do you believe/been taught happens to non christians when they die? is it automatic hell?
8)what do you think about deities from before Jesus having so many similarities? E.g Mithrantis born same day, virgin birth, resurection etc etc
9)would it affect your faith if it was found that jesus did marry, have children etc etc
10)how important is it to your faith that jesus even existed at all?
Mind if I answer as well?


6. In a way, yes. Jesus is the "Word of God," that is, God's message to us. In a sense he is a Prophet, but he's one who is truly enlightened by God, like the one of the first "Gods on Earth", a blueprint for us to follow and strive for (Christ consciousness). His body rising to heaven, no I don't think so. His spirit? Yes. He did not taste death though to be reborn on this Earth again because he was already perfect. That doesn't mean he won't appear again however.

7. Basically, but there was also that "as long as you're a good person..." but deep down people thought that ONLY those who profess Jesus as Lord and Saviour could be saved. He stated a few times though, that we are already saved. It's just that we will keep being reborn in the physical world to obtain more experience and knowledge of the Father.

8. In some cases influence, or just how God likes to work. Buddha (who lived around 400 BC), also had a virgin birth.

9. In the Gospel of Philip (gnostic text), it's said that Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene on the lips many times. His union with her quite possibly used as an example of the Bridal Chamber (enlightenment, the marriage between humanity and God).

10. Such brilliant words and teachings were uttered by a brilliant speaker. Truly. The physical body doesn't matter but detachment does, as he showed us all by his crucifixion. Peter tried to stop him from going to the cross, and Jesus called him Satan (imperfect, selfish, etc.) because Peter was still worried about the "desires" of the flesh (men).
edit on 16/5/11 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 


Hats off to you dude,

written with rationality and intelligence,

unfortunately with the posts youve put up I wouldnt exactly say your "christian"

The search for an intelligent, educated TRADITIONAL christian resumes



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by kallisti36
 


Very eloquently put


you answered wonderfully,

Next questions

6) do you believe Jesus was God incarnate? physically rose to heaven?
7)what do you believe/been taught happens to non christians when they die? is it automatic hell?
8)what do you think about deities from before Jesus having so many similarities? E.g Mithrantis born same day, virgin birth, resurection etc etc
9)would it affect your faith if it was found that jesus did marry, have children etc etc
10)how important is it to your faith that jesus even existed at all?


Wasn't interested in the first set of questions


6) No, he was a man like you and i. Heaven being considered the after life...yes.

7) I was taught hell like many others, but i don't believe hell exists. It was a fabrication by the church, and a means of control. Everyone passes into the afterlife, regardless of your "sins"

8) No comment...

9) i believe Jesus probably was married. I also can't see a man living 33 years and not having any relations with women. It makes no sence, women are a blessing to men. They help the "hunters" understand love


10) The truth in the words you can read about him are incredible, its so simplistic, yet so hard to follow. If the bible wasn't written i would be a different person. This i know for a fact. If he didn't actually exist, yet the words in scripture were still there, it wouldn't matter. But if those words didn't exist, its possible i wouldn't be here.

So i would say thats quite important



Edit: erm....whoops sorry im not christian though
edit on 16-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by kallisti36
 



6) do you believe Jesus was God incarnate? physically rose to heaven?

Yes, it is essential to the faith that Christ was in God and therefor was God otherwise, he was a blasphemer. He claimed to forgive sins, conquered death, and accepted worship. If he was not God incarnate, that makes him a lesser deity and denies the oneness of God. With non-trinitarianism, what you are left with is three gods.


7)what do you believe/been taught happens to non christians when they die? is it automatic hell?

Hell is a blanket translation of Sheol, Hades, Gehennah, and Tartarus. Sheol and Hades are the Greek and Hebrew words for the shadowy abode of death, it's not very well elaborated on in the OT and some think it is non-existence. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man given by Yeshuah denotes consciousness in these places, so I believe that even before the harrowing of hades the dead still existed. Gehenna was a flaming garbage dump outside of Jerusalem in Yeshuah's time and was a common metaphor for the wrath of God. This is where the fire and worm imagery comes from. Tartarus was a dark prison (the pit) for the fallen angels of Genesis 6 alone; no humans. This blanket translation is an enduring Roman Catholic corruption that originates in Jerome's Vulgate in which he translated all the above terms as infernus.

Now concerning the state of the non-Christian dead, we must understand death and the cause of it. Death came about from the original sin of Adam. The Orthodox see sin as a sickness or an injury instead of a parking ticket. By consciously sinning, Adam adopted the proclivity for sin into our nature, we aren't guilty of his sin, we just inherit his sinful nature. When God said to Adam and Eve "on the day you eat of the tree, you shall die", he was stating a fact just as he was later when he declared "from dust you came and to dust you shall return". God did not say "Eat from the tree and I will kill you". It was more akin to a father telling his child not to touch the hot pan of cookies "or you will get burned". Did the Father burn the child, or did the child burn himself? Anyways, so the rest of the OT is God trying save the world from sin and death by establishing a people righteous enough to give birth to the messiah (the Israelites). Why couldn't he just do it? Firstly, we must consent to be healed, everyone healed by Yeshuah asked for it or was asked by him. Secondly, the Logos had to take on human flesh to redeem it, so he had to be born by a human mother. After centuries of struggle, captivity, chastisement, and failures, the Jews produced a woman righteous enough under the law to bear the eternal word of God and like the burning bush, not be consumed. This was the Theotokos, the virgin Mary. When Christ died for our sins, not as a "substitute for the punishment we deserve", he was acting as a scapegoat. This was a ritual performed by the Jews in which they placed the sins of the community on a goat and destroyed it and with it, their sin. Christ took on the sin of all those born and yet to be born in a metaphysical event of cosmic proportions and died. Sin lead to death, the wages of sin are death and all those before Christ went down into Sheol. When Christ died, the Logos, the author of life entered death which could not hold him. This is referred to as the harrowing of hades in which Christ entered the realm of the dead and bestowed life on the dead. At the resurrection he returned to show that matter could be redeemed because he returned in the flesh and blood as we all will at the final resurrection and judgment. You must ask to be healed, so if you do not ask you will not receive, therefor if you do not accept the sacrifice of Christ, you will die. Beyond that is a mystery to us. Christ harrowed sheol once before, perhaps he goes to the dead still. There will be a judgment at the end, however, and this is where the traditional understanding of hell comes in. To be in the presence of the Father of all and to be condemned by your own conscience is agony, estrangement from your father on a cosmic scale, and you can't escape his presence. In the end, God's heavenly flame either envelops you in love and life and does not consume or you will be consumed in shame and contempt. You would be estranged and cut off from those who love their Father and you would never be able to escape that. That is hell, but it isn't until the apocalypse.


8)what do you think about deities from before Jesus having so many similarities? E.g Mithrantis born same day, virgin birth, resurection etc etc

Most of that stuff is bs. Mithra was born out of a rock, Christmas only has a 1/365 chance of being Yeshuah's birthday, Mithra wasn't crucified or resurrected either. Regardless, from what I noticed of all resurrection stories not involving Christ, they focus on the personal glorification of that deity rather than a great sacrifice that saved the entirety of mankind. Same thing with the virgin birth (which I can't find elsewhere without significant stretching and leaps in logic), anything else lacks the weight of the Word of God taking on human flesh from the culmination of mosaic law so that mankind might be saved from death and sin. Another thing to point out is that similarities do not equal plagarism.


9)would it affect your faith if it was found that jesus did marry, have children etc etc

Of course it would. Any Christian who says otherwise doesn't understand their own faith or just doesn't want you to think they're unreasonable. To make Yeshuah human would make him just another philosopher. If that is the case, we are still under the curse and the world keeps getting worse with no hope of a second coming. That being said, would I accept such information? Probably not, do you know how many times they *supposedly* found his tomb or his bones? It's always a load of crap that gets hyped up for a month. James Cameron will do a dishonest documentary on it and then people will call the claim out and it crumbles under scrutiny. The gnostic groups that have myths like these are always incredibly removed from Jerusalem. Why did Yeshuah always go to France, India, or Japan in these stories? Because there have been Christians in Jerusalem for 2,000 years and might have noticed if Yeshuah left an ancestral tomb or was making babies.


10)how important is it to your faith that jesus even existed at all?

Very important. I mean if I discovered it was all a lie I wouldn't be a Christian, however I would always see what Yeshuah reportedly said as truth. Read the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), forget all internal arguments on his existence and read it, it permeates truth on a purely metaphysical level. It was after I discovered that that I sought Him out and found that there is significant evidence that he existed.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


Cheers dude,

While I strongly disagree with several of your statements you delivered what was asked, Rational intelligent answers to genuine questions. Other religious types would do well to take a leaf out of your book


Star for you again

You seem very reasonable and not easily offended like some others who have posted so would you mind if I pressed you a bit further on things youve said?
I only ask because what I would say next may been seen by some people as an attack on you or christianity which I assure you it is not. I just have a deep desire to understand things which dont make sense to me and organised religion to me is one of those things.

Cheers again dude



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

I see alot of religious threads on the site and alot more threads that have nothing to do with religion and yet still have posts by people preaching in them and its very rare any of it will be what I would call intelligent. There has been a proven link between intelligence/education and a lack of religious belief, basically the smarter you are the less religious you are.

Not proven at all! (For instance, I am religious, you're not, yet I know that the word 'smart' doesn't mean intelligent except in the USA, ie., in one dialect descended from the English language.
(It actually means elegant and well-dressed) Likewise, dumb doesn't mean stupid, it means mute.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it?

Yes, I have heard of it. What do you expect me to think? I know Sir Lord Professor Herr Dawkins and his disciples Harris and Hitchens, say that various fraud was committed there, but that's not true.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible?

I've seen the lists of contradictions on atheist sites, and I am unimpressed. They're mostly wrong!

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life?

You're showing your bias by using the term indoctrinated... and proving you're not genuine when you say your thread is not intended to attack anyone. Of course it is! But playing your reindeer game, I was not 'indoctrinated' (atheist parents). I found God when I was 19, and how long have you got?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff4)what do you think of the Vatican?

See my answer to question 1. What do you expect me to think?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today?

There are billions of Christians. Only a minority of them are in the USA, which I presume is all you know about it. So what do I think Jesus would say about the state of Christianity now? For one thing, he'd realise it's not all one great monolithic thing!



Originally posted by IkNOwSTuffThis is not a thread designed to attack anyone or their beliefs
Cheers

Of course it is! Be like Madness and his buddies, be honest and admit your real motives...




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