WANTED 1 intelligent educated Christian to answer some questions on faith

reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher

"Reall deep sigh"........... I don't know why I engage in these discussions..... I must be gluttonous for irritation.

LOL I hear ya

thanks for posting, my original post was not meant to be insulting in anyway. I made a point of saying MOST not ALL and the level of intelligence attributed to each post is not measurable in anyway so its just my opinion.

This wasnt an exercise in christian bashing, it was in fact me looking to have my faith in christians restored after reading so much verbal diarhea from religious types on this site.

I also know many intelligent "christians" but once again none of them are true believers.

So with my rambling... keep it respectful everyone. There are many reasons why people believe and what they believe. Doesn't mean anyone is less intelligent than the other. Quite frankly, none of us have any room to say who is wrong or not because........none of us have any clue what the heck is going on here.

LOL very true, couldnt have put it better myself. star for you

reply to post by BlackStar99

So if Christians don't 'feel bad' about their sins they don't go heaven? You realize that would only be about 2% of Christians?

I think you're misunderstanding.. If Christians don't "feel bad" then they aren't in the right mind. A real Christian is someone who is ashamed for what they do.. they hate what they do.. they WANT to change.. What you're thinking are the Christians who think Grace gives them the right to Sin, which isn't the case.

So you're okay worshipping a god who's sent and is sending billions of wonderful people to be tortured forever? If it turns out Christianity was the right religion, I wouldn't want to spend eternity in 'heaven' with that sociopath.

Billions of people? Don't exaggerate. There isn't billions of people who donate to the poor, spread peace and love, and do all those wonderful things. If there were, this world would be a much different place.

And no, God is not "sending" anyone to hell. I'll give you an analogy:

A homeless kid has spent all his life wandering the streets, he has no money, rarely eats, and only has tattered rags as clothes. A wealthy man approaches him and offers him a new home: a family, food, clothes, an education; a life. He offers him everything... does this kid accept?

Mankind is this homeless kid. God is this wealthy man; offering everything to us, even Heaven. It would be foolish to not want it, saying you don't is just ignorance.

So, does the kid accept? It's his choice, after all. If he doesn't accept.. he rejects the man, and so it was his choice alone to be left on the streets.

It's the exact situation mankind is in. God is not sending them to Hell out of spite, mankind is just rejecting him, and willingly going to hell.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Uhm, no it doesn't say that at all....it says...

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

It does not say Men die once........... It says once they die then its judgement time.

I'm not certain if your joking or not...

That's exactly the same thing. Once a person dies they are judged.


But that's irrelevant. Do a Greek word-study on 9:27 and that's precisely what it says. All men are appointed once to die, and after this (the "this" refers to them dying) they are judged.

That could be taken multiple ways. Getting to your part about Elijah. If he didn't die ( we do not know for sure. He was taken by firery chariots into the heaven) that doesn't discount the fact that his spirit incarnated into the body known has john the baptist. Unless... of course.... his physical body was taken, but then again, if our physical bodies are to be taken to heaven then whats the point of a soul.

reply to post by Akragon

I don't see why that matters, the OT was written a long time before the NT....clearly Elijah was dead.

No wrong, Elijah never died. He was the second prophet to be raptured to heaven before dying. Enoch was the first.

And would you mind posting that passage where they ask john if he is Elijah?

Sure, the first chapter of the gospel of John in general, John 1:21 specifically:

"20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

Wow,

Lots of posters. Here is a place on the web that can answer many questions. You can also post to the website and get individual answers to your mailbox.

www.lastgeneration.us

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I'm with you on it. There is alot of it on these forums and it can be irritating since it often derails the original conversation. I was just making sure. I myself am not a christian, but I do thuroughly enjoy talking to some that do at least come to the table with evidence. Makes for good conversation.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


God damn it!!!!!!!

LMAO

dude you just went and ruined it, I thought id found an intelligent christian when all I did was find someone intelligent who knows about christianity

I have no issues with your beliefs and in fact I guess I could be called slightly gnostic as well but I was more looking for a more typical christian to give me some insight into how their minds work.

I knew you were too good to be true

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Uhm, no it doesn't say that at all....it says...

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

It does not say Men die once........... It says once they die then its judgement time.

I'm not certain if your joking or not...

That's exactly the same thing. Once a person dies they are judged.

But that's irrelevant. Do a Greek word-study on 9:27 and that's precisely what it says. All men are appointed once to die, and after this (the "this" refers to them dying) they are judged.

Yes but that still does not say "men die once".... and as you should know of me by now, i do not joke around in religious threads.

It doesn't say the same thing at all... but i agree it says after death comes judgement.

Once to die, doesn't mean... to die once. Its simple word play man...spin words around they mean something different comepletely. If they meant to say Men die once, i believe it would have been stated in that way.

Originally posted by paul777
Wow,

Lots of posters. Here is a place on the web that can answer many questions. You can also post to the website and get individual answers to your mailbox.

www.lastgeneration.us

reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher

That could be taken multiple ways.

Yes, in English it can. English is a grotesquely lazy language. That's the reason I said to do a Greek word-study on 9:27. Greek is ridiculously precise, verbs have to meet 5 conditions alone to be used. It's the most precise language in history.

It says exactly that. Men are appointed to die once, and to be judged after that. Besides, you should be able to debunk reincarnation yourself with simple logic. If a person lives one life and accumulates sin, then dies and has to come back to atone for those sins done in the first life, they would be adding on more sins done in the second life, and the third and so on. The person would continually add more and more sins! It's foolishness.

No one will have a reason whatsoever to boast before the throne of God. Jesus is the hero of all history, not us. And there is zero debate, Elijah never died. He was translated alive in the presence of Elisha to heaven without death. Enoch was the first prophet to be translated alive to heaven.

In light of verse 9:27 in Hebrews is why the common conjecture for the two witnesses/prophets of Revelation will be Elijah and Enoch because both have never died.

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by AdamsMurmur

 

God damn it!!!!!!!

LMAO

dude you just went and ruined it, I thought id found an intelligent christian when all I did was find someone intelligent who knows about christianity

I have no issues with your beliefs and in fact I guess I could be called slightly gnostic as well but I was more looking for a more typical christian to give me some insight into how their minds work.

I knew you were too good to be true

I know where I came from. I was typical, but I learned to step beyond that in recent times because I wasn't satisfied. It was within me to strive for more. This is what all people should strive for: to better themselves and conquer their imperfections.

I'm a Christian because I believe in Jesus' words (Logos), but that doesn't mean I can't look at the words of others. When you look at them, you'll see some parallels and realize they are not completely different.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I don't see why that matters, the OT was written a long time before the NT....clearly Elijah was dead.

No wrong, Elijah never died. He was the second prophet to be raptured to heaven before dying. Enoch was the first.

And would you mind posting that passage where they ask john if he is Elijah?

Sure, the first chapter of the gospel of John in general, John 1:21 specifically:

"20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

Let me clarify something i thought was obvious... The physical body does not go to "heaven" in any case... Perhaps he didn't die, but he passed into the afterlife either way, and thus he could have be reincarnated.

Another thing i want you to realize...

Jesus said he was elijah, john said he wasn't. So you tell me, who do you believe? One who isn't a prophet as you clearly see....or your own God in the flesh?

Perhaps hes a liar?

About Enoch, Elijah, and Moses:

John 3:13

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."

www.ecclesia.org...

reply to post by Akragon

If they meant to say Men die once, i believe it would have been stated in that way.

It does. That is exactly what it says. And the author of Hebrews included it to specifically address the doctrine of reincarnation.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


NO it doesn't say that man, you can read can't you?

It does NOT say "men die once"....

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You will have to excuse my spelling, unfortunately Im a product of the spell checker generation LOL

And yes I am familiar with the word arbitrary, I just ignored your mention of it as I stated several times this is my opinion and not scientific fact.

Do you understand the concept of answering innocent questions or do you just ask your own and deflect the ones aimed at you?

reply to post by Akragon

Jesus said he was elijah, john said he wasn't. So you tell me, who do you believe? One who isn't a prophet as you clearly see....or your own God in the flesh?

I already addressed that. Neither was lying. John was answering the literal, Jesus was explaining the spiritual. John had the anointing of Elijah to herald the advent of the Messiah.

Neither was lying.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Your boxing in reincarnation. Who made those ridiculous rules up? The fact is, reincarnation was widely accepted until Justinian came into rule. When you study the history of that time, it is blatantly obvious that more control was needed over the people. So instilling a fear based doctrine in which people had only one life to prove themselves worthy of heaven was key to his reign and the submission of the masses.

Please answer me..... was jesus wrong when he said John the baptist was Elijah?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You will have to excuse my spelling, unfortunately Im a product of the spell checker generation LOL

And yes I am familiar with the word arbitrary, I just ignored your mention of it as I stated several times this is my opinion and not scientific fact.

Do you understand the concept of answering innocent questions or do you just ask your own and deflect the ones aimed at you?

No, I don't address irrational questions. How can I comment on your personal opinions? The OP was a prejudicial arbitrary rant from the first sentence.

reply to post by NOTurTypical




Don't think so.

Nonetheless, I'm curtailing my nonsensical views and going to bed.

Good conversation everyone.