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WANTED 1 intelligent educated Christian to answer some questions on faith

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by paul777
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.


How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible? There are not contridictions in the Bible. Please give an example.

Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15


Lets put some context to it.

Exodus 3:21-22
21 And I will give this people such favor in the sight of the Egyptians that when you go, you will not go empty-handed. (A) 22 Each woman will ask her neighbor and any woman staying in her house for silver and gold jewelry, and clothing, and you will put them on your sons and daughters. So you will plunder the Egyptians." (B)

Exodus 12:35-36
35 The Israelites acted on Moses' word and asked the Egyptians for silver and gold jewelry and for clothing. (A) 36 And the LORD gave the people such favor in the Egyptians' sight that they gave them what they requested. In this way they plundered the Egyptians.

Ooops, no contradiction there.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.


How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...


You seem to be posting a lot of opinions and not many facts. You are trying to make something a fact based on your own beleifs. How about some proof of a pedophile going to heaven?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.


How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...


Confusing for the people who dont understand. You cannot be a Christian and do those such things. All that person is doing is claiming that they are Christian most likely because they go to church on Sunday. Which is what majority of the Christian church does. Which is also why I turned away from the church. Doesn't mean as much as it did 1000 years ago. ME, myself, as a believer cannot associate myself with hypocrites such as the Christian pedophile.
Its just a title to most now a days. I will not condemn that person and say they are going to hell but it isn't to hard to figure out whats going to happen.
edit on 15-5-2011 by johngrissom because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Thanks for the reply dude,

Some of what you said I addressed in a previous post so Ill just cut and paste

1)The council of nicea isnt just catholic, it laid the foundation for all forms of christianity that are now in existance including what the bible contained. All christianity is based on the interpretation of the book they made.

2) the most obvious example is jesus last words, none of the Acts agree on what they were. Kinda scary really as you think the saviours last words would be remembered correctly.

3)can you explain the concept of Saved? not being cheeky I genuinely have no idea what that means or entails.

4) I starred you for that comment alone. The first time I walked nto a church I was actually scared god would find out and come get me. I was 7, non christian and even I knew that god didnt want anyone or any idol put before him yet here we have a priest talking almost exclusively about jesus, offering thanks to him and praying towards an image/idol/icon of him. Kinda fecked up when the main part of your worship contradicts god.

5)fair call, nothing to add.

The questions were random, I didnt have an agenda in mind I was just curious what true believers thought.

I appreciate you takin the time to answer



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by SlyingFaucers

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.


How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...


You seem to be posting a lot of opinions and not many facts. You are trying to make something a fact based on your own beleifs. How about some proof of a pedophile going to heaven?


How about some proof of heaven?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by BlackStar99
 

I'm sorry, but NONE of these are contradictions. I know it took me a minute to reply, even though you weren't directly speaking with me, but I wanted to be thorough as I could be.



God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

This is not a contradiction by any means. First of all, it's in the same book, just a few verses later, odds are this wouldn't be even if we didn't understand it - but I'll give you an example to show why this ISN'T a "contradiction" -

A man is satisfied with his marriage, but after his wife has an affair, he is dissatisfied.

We see here that God is pleased with his works, but after the fall of man, he is dissatisfied. Not a contradiction.



God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12


Interestingly enough, none of the later verses you listed mention the words "unjust" or "partial", it is assumed, but if you read them we can decipher these things:


"God is just and impartial"
Ps 92:15 - God is righteous.
Gen 18:25 - God does not condemn the righteous with the wicked.
Deut 32:4 - God is righteous.
Ezek 18:25 - God's ways are right, the ways of Israel, when the prophet spoke, were not.
Rom 2:11 - God is impartial. However, in context, it is clear that he is impartial when it comes to salvation being offered to both Jew and Gentile. So, the verses cited after this could only be contradictory if they teach that Christ's atonement was only for the Jews or Gentiles - since they don't, we only need to consider if God is unrighteous in any of them.

"God is unjust and partial"
Gen 9:25 - "Curse be Canaan!", this is Noah speaking, not God.
Ex 20:5 - This is punishment - in the previous verse (which you conveniently left out), he warns not to worship Idols (Ex 20:4) - the punishment for doing so, is what you see in this verse.

The rest deal with partiality, which, as we've already established, is irrelevant.



God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

In Deut 32:4, we find that God is just. None of the above verses teach that God is unjust. Paul is speaking about God in the context of Church gatherings - that in such gatherings, God is a God of peace, NOT confusion. None of the above verses speak of such Church gatherings. James teaches that God does NOT tempt anyone with evil - Again, none of the above verses teach that God tempts with evil. (I think Ez 20:25 is best understood in light of Romans 1). Thus, no contradiction is made.



God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

First off, I don't understand why you listed Ex 15:3, it has nothing to do with War.

Regardless, it seems clear that God reveals Himself as a God of Battles in much of the OT. So what about the NT? This "contradiction" is premised on equivocation, where the NT references to peace are interpreted to be the antonym of 'war', when this is obviously not the case. In Romans, Paul seems to be speaking of peace in a subjective, existential sense - a relationship with God brings a sense of peace. In Corinthians, Paul is speaking about the activity of Church congregations - they should be orderly and peaceful, not full of confusion and contention.

Not a contradiction.



God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

These first set of verses you linked say NOTHING about God being cruel (subjective). They deal simply and bluntly with God's JUDGEMENT. Thus, we have a both/and situation here. Yes, God is merciful and full of compassion. Yet, those who REJECT his mercy and compassion find that his JUDGEMENT is unrelenting and ferocious. That's his nature.



Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

It's not necessarily "robbery" being taken place here. When black people demand compensation for their history of slavery, are they demanding to rob white people? No. These are not examples of God commanding robbery. Besides, in the verses you listed, the Israelites asked the Egyptians for goods.



Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Revelations says all liars will be cast into the lake of fire. Since the first set of scriptures do not say otherwise, we dismiss this one.
Proverbs says lying is an abomination. Since the first set of scriptures do not say lying is -not- an abomination, we dismiss this one.

Now, it's not obvious (to me, personally) that lying is approved of in the above situations. In Josh 2:4-6, the harlot's act of saving the lives of these men is what is approved of. Same goes for Exodus 1, where the midwives refuse to kill the male infants which were birthed, not the lie.



Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13

Exodus 20:13 (the Ten Commandments) state "You shall not murder."
Not all killing is murder. Is killing in self-defense murder?

Not a contradiction.


I could go on and on and on and on

So can I. These were dreadfully easy.

edit on 15-5-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-5-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by BlackStar99
 


haha looks like you need one intelligent atheist to back you up here. If that is your end game with this thread, Im sorry I wasted my time.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by SlyingFaucers

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.


How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...


You seem to be posting a lot of opinions and not many facts. You are trying to make something a fact based on your own beleifs. How about some proof of a pedophile going to heaven?


How about some proof of heaven?


Well there is no proof...thats the beauty of defining belief.
But something to float your bubble. Look up 90 minutes in heaven.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Honestly, I just pulled those off a random website so I can't really say they're valid, which you obviously proved they weren't. The only contradiction I care about is the one on the top of this page.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 


Thanks for replying

1)true true, its reaaly surprising how many christians havent even heard of it let alone know what went on. Thjumbs up for you


2)HOLY SH!T!!!!! you actually know what your talking about

3) OK now Im suss
are you really a christian?

4) to anyone who despaired of ever finding an intelligent christian, I think we have a winner

5)Beautifully put dude!!!

Well there you go, I thought it would take alot longer but I knew Id get there in the end. So what makes you a christian as opposed to a buddhist etc it doesnt seem like you really believe in the christian dogma so how and why do you define yourself as one?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99
reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Honestly, I just pulled those off a random website so I can't really say they're valid, which you obviously proved they weren't. The only contradiction I care about is the one on the top of this page.


Why would a buddhist go to hell again?

Im a little confused, where did you get your information from....

certianly not from anything i've ever read




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by SlyingFaucers
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


haha looks like you need one intelligent atheist to back you up here. If that is your end game with this thread, Im sorry I wasted my time.


I'm not atheist, I'm optimistically agnostic.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by BlackStar99
 


there is absolutely no doubt, just like the couple of living witnesses accounts along with newspaper on the recent FTW "lights" phenomenon-


Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

the King eternal, immortal, invisible

for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow

but with wings

And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings

I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.-biblegateay.com

edit on 15-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by johngrissom
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I would like to explain what intelligent educated Christian would say to your questions.........................................


Nothing. Why? Because an intelligent educated Christian doesn't care about the mumbo jumbo associate with your questions. None of that pertains to believing in God and/or Jesus. Which should be priory one in Christianity. Not the other stuff. Of course thats my opinion.
edit on 15-5-2011 by johngrissom because: (no reason given)


I dispute that statement

Most christians I know love their god and religion so much they take any chance to talk about it with others, unfortunately most of them dont have a clue of the realities and just end up looking silly.

Thanks for coming but if you are christian and not interested in answering the questions it might be time to move on to another thread. Once again this isnt an attack on anyone Im just genuinely curious



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by BlackStar99
reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Honestly, I just pulled those off a random website so I can't really say they're valid, which you obviously proved they weren't. The only contradiction I care about is the one on the top of this page.


Why would a buddhist go to hell again?

Im a little confused, where did you get your information from....

certianly not from anything i've ever read



I don't know, maybe because a belief in Jesus is the foundation of Christianity...



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by BlackStar99
 

This one?

How about the biggest one? That is; God is supposedly a loving God, but would send the Christian pedophile to heaven and for the Buddhist man who devoted his entire life to spreading love and peace? Straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity...


It isn't a contradiction by any means. For starters, I'll lay out the basics of Christianity for you, it's quite simple, actually: If you believe in Jesus, and that he died so you can be forgiven of all your sins, past, present and future, then you can go to Heaven when you die.

All sins are forgivable - except one (which usually pops up as a "contradiction"), and that is, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This isn't a contradiction so much, actually, it's basically just an obvious punishment:

To be forgiven, you must accept the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - to reject the Holy Spirit, means you reject forgiveness - so your sin cannot be forgiven. This doesn't mean permanently though, if you later accept the Holy Spirit, it doesn't count.

Now, IF this so called Pedophile truly feels bad in his heart for what he has done, and he accepts Jesus, he IS going to heaven. However, if he just says "I'm a Christian" and continues to rape little kids, he ISN'T going to Heaven. Forgiveness is a powerful thing, us Humans have a hard time with it.

Now, the Buddhist, spreading peace and love and all that, ISN'T perfect, no matter how good he is, he has committed at least one sin in his life, and that alone would keep him out of Heaven, if not for the fact he choose to reject the Holy Spirit as well - the unforgivable sin.

So you see, it's not so much a contradiction, as it is the rules of the game, if you will.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Rustami
intelligence obviously has nothing to do with it (key word- predicatable)


But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

-New Testament





edit on 15-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



Hey dude,

Can you explain to me what the above actually means coz Im interpreting it to mean god gets a laugh out of all of us being preached complete and utter cr@p



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by paul777
 



"1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it? Yes, It is Catholic and Catholic is not true Christianity.


With regard to council of Nicea, one simply cant just brush it aside saying its a catholic thing. The problem is that the council of Nicea pretty much framed modern christian in general, and is not just a part of catholic history. They decided what IS and IS NOT christian doctrine... which is followed to this day.

Whether you are a protestant or a catholic or whatever, most Christian beliefs have their roots in decisions taken at the council of Nicea.



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