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WANTED 1 intelligent educated Christian to answer some questions on faith

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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I see alot of religious threads on the site and alot more threads that have nothing to do with religion and yet still have posts by people preaching in them and its very rare any of it will be what I would call intelligent. There has been a proven link between intelligence/education and a lack of religious belief, basically the smarter you are the less religious you are.

I fully believe organised religion is merely an "opiate for the masses" and MOST (not all) people who are religious are either Loopy, Dumb ( IQ quite low) or merely ignorant.

Now I know alot of people who attend church and will call themselves christian if anyone asks but I know either by asking or just observing that they arent true believers, Like the vast majority of the population they are "Culturally" christian i.e follow the holidays, espouse that general worldview, know the history/mythology of it all etc etc

What I want to do is hear from an intelligent educated christian there thoughts on the blatant contradictions and even lies that are in the bible and also put out there by the church itself.

I have a ton of questions and also what I think are some answers but I would like to hear from a few of you before I put my 2 cents in. So to get started

1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it?
2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible?
3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life?
4)what do you think of the Vatican?
5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today?

OK that should get us started

This is not a thread designed to attack anyone or their beliefs (I may have come across a tad harsh but its my honest opinion and would never hold anyones beliefs against them) so please no nasty comments from non believers and no christians jumping in and saying its all a matter of faith etc etc
Im looking for intelligent answers here

Cheers




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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Dear Friend,

1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it? Yes, It is Catholic and Catholic is not true Christianity.

2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible? There are not contridictions in the Bible. Please give an example.

3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life? God found me as a 15 year old sinner and saved me by His grace.


4)what do you think of the Vatican? The Vatican is the headquarters for the bride of Satan.


5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today? The state of "christianity" is putrifying to God. Most protestants, catholics, "christian" groups are not following the truth and do not posses the truth.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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You are going to be looking a long time for an "intelligent Christian". It is an oxymoron.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Let me ask a question first...

Are you looking for answers because you have no clue or are you trying to convert someone away from their religion?

If you want answers go to a church and ask.
If your just being a punk like majority of the peeps on this website...go do something with your life or better yet, go stand on a street corner.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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good luck finding intelligent answers not clouded by dogma or blind faith I dont think even the pope could answer any of your questions much less the faithful believers at the bottom of the totem pole I mean cross



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by HenryPatrick
You are going to be looking a long time for an "intelligent Christian". It is an oxymoron.


Why? How is a Christian any different than you besides less ignorantly non-smart?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by paul777
2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible? There are not contridictions in the Bible. Please give an example.


God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13


I could go on and on and on and on



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it?
Yes, my answer is similar to what the first poster has stated.

2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible?
There are -thousands- of so called "contradictions" in the Bible, none of which I have found to be valid. I studied them as an Atheist and a majority of them are the result of faulty translation. So far, I haven't found a single valid "contradiction", if you have one, please share it.

3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life?
I was raised in a Christian family, but did not get saved until I was 18.

4)what do you think of the Vatican?
I think the Catholic religion as a whole is not doing what they should be doing. They worship Saints and Mary, not Jesus. The Vatican is the capital of Symbolism and Idols.

5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today?
He would be angry. Today's Christians are uneducated, lazy, and cold. The Church has never been so weak as it is now - though I have to say, that is a prophecy in the bible to know when the end times will be.

These questions seemed random and hardly needed an "intelligent" Christian to answer them, especially since most of them were opinions. If you have any more questions I'll keep an eye on this thread for awhile.
edit on 15-5-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, there are apparent contradictions. You had quite a list to start off with. I am willing to answer them one at a time. Which one is on the top of your list and we can work on them one-by-one starting from the most confusing.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible? There are not contridictions in the Bible. Please give an example.


God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13


I could go on and on and on and on









Sorry to burst your bubble but you need to go back to the Old Testament and find them for yourself. Not what the internet has to offer because it get jumbled up the more it spreads.
The New Testament was collaborated and translated for the modern day person.
Now...our modern day person is very contradicting in nature.

Is the Bible or New Testament contradicting...yes!
Is the Old Testament contradicting...yes, just not exaggerated like you so have post.

But people see things a lot differently than the other person...so there is always going to be a contradiction. Which is why it was written like it was. To receive the message that you need to receive.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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1) have you heard of the council of Nicea? what do you think of it?
Men coming together to rip apart Christ's teachings and declare what's canon and what isn't canon? I don't know enough about it to declare everything but that's part of it I'm sure. Quite possibly the reason why the "gnostic" works were kept out of the Bible. Shame.

2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible?
It was written by men. Also, the Hebrew Bible is in the Christian Bible, further confusing individuals. Also, because it was written by human hands, it's bound to have some errors, but the worst, in my opinion, is how they chopped it up and cut things out. All the most interesting teachings are considered esoteric, such as the gnostic works. This is what people need to look at if they want more, and you should always be striving for that more... Just as an example, the early Christians believed in reincarnation, which means that life and death are temporary states of the soul that it must go through to gain more experiences and knowledge. Why isn't that taught? Oh right... it was deemed "heretical." So was detachment from this world and the notion of conquering one's ego, as well as the idea of at-one-ment.

3) how old were you when you were indoctrinated or did you find God on your own? if so what brought him/her into your life?
I found Him on my own around 13. I did not believe in a "god" or any such thing until certain events took place in my life that awakened me to it. Ever since then I sought him out on my own. In recent times, I've learned quite a bit more as I kept saying things like, "I just want to know more." And it was done. I remember thinking in my youth that it was all bull, but I felt and learned. It's not really describable. This is why I say it's a personal journey that we must undergo if we decide to seek wisdom. Texts and teachers are there to help you, but ultimately, it's up to you to conquer yourself and open your eyes to see his light. My journey is far from over, but I'm grateful to have learned what I have learned, and what I will learn in the future.

4)what do you think of the Vatican?
It's a political system, a form of control, etc. I don't agree with the Vatican nor do I hold the Pope above other men and women. They keep far too much secret from the people, and that's sad too.

5) what do you think Jesus would say about the state of christianity if he were around today?
Well, he sees it now. The basic message is still there (that is, to love and protect one an another equally, but hardly anyone does this), but a nice chunk is missing and was deemed "heretical" by men, and many church leaders are corrupt themselves. I'm sure he'd be displeased with all the fundamentalists especially, as they shun others and think God will be tossing people of other religions into the pits of "hell." Just like the Jews who tried to stone the prostitute, these people who believe others aren't saved are in error. God is the ultimate love, and we are all a part of God, regardless of which teaching we subscribe to. Get used to that and learn to love one another equally as Christ taught us to. THAT is how you do God's will on Earth: by spreading love onto others, because when you love one another, you love God by proxy.
edit on 15/5/11 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by paul777
 


thanks for the reply but I must rebut,

1)The council of nicea isnt just catholic, it laid the foundation for all forms of christianity that are now in existance including what the bible contained. All christianity is based on the interpretation of the book they made.

2) the most obvious example is jesus last words, none of the Acts agree on what they were. Kinda scary really as you think the saviours last words would be remembered correctly.

3) can you give more details? was it an angelic voice or a priest he worked through or an internal realisation?
what was happening in your life at the time? (sorry if thats too personal Im just very curious)

4) is that just a metaphor for you saying you dont like it or do you genuinely believe they have the bride of satan there?

5)What is the truth?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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accidental double post

If any MODS see this can you please delete

Cheers
edit on 15-5-2011 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I would like to explain what intelligent educated Christian would say to your questions.........................................


Nothing. Why? Because an intelligent educated Christian doesn't care about the mumbo jumbo associate with your questions. None of that pertains to believing in God and/or Jesus. Which should be priory one in Christianity. Not the other stuff. Of course thats my opinion.
edit on 15-5-2011 by johngrissom because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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intelligence obviously has nothing to do with it (key word- predicatable)


But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

-New Testament





edit on 15-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by paul777

It is Catholic and Catholic is not true Christianity.



OH and just exactly WHAT is "true Christianity? Last time I checked Catholics believed in CHRIST and that's what a CHRISTIAN is a follower/believer of CHRIST. OH and do not even go there with the B.S. that Catholics worship Mary because they DO NOT they HONOR her as CHRIST'S MOTHER, so if that's your argument then that's not going to fly.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by johngrissom
 


Hey there,

Im asking because Im curious, Im open minded so Im open to the possibility Ive missed something or misinterpreted something somewhere.
I would never try to convert someone away from their religion, I think its a personal choice and whatever you believe as long as you dont mind I dont believe it then well get along just fine


Ive asked many priests and have never gotten a decent response, most of them dont even know the history of the church, I mean the actual history of christian development after Jesus death.




If your just being a punk like majority of the peeps on this website...go do something with your life or better yet, go stand on a street corner.


I find that statement typical of both religious fanatics without anything intelligent to say and do gooders who feel the need to get their 2 cents in when they imagine they see discrimination or attacks even when not aimed at them.

So which catergory are you in? do gooder or fanatic?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by paul777
2) How do you rationalise the contradictions in the bible? There are not contridictions in the Bible. Please give an example.

God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8


I dont see contradictions here. Looks like a list. I can be happy and I can be sad. That is not a contradiction.
edit on 15-5-2011 by SlyingFaucers because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jubes

Originally posted by paul777

It is Catholic and Catholic is not true Christianity.



OH and just exactly WHAT is "true Christianity? Last time I checked Catholics believed in CHRIST and that's what a CHRISTIAN is a follower/believer of CHRIST. OH and do not even go there with the B.S. that Catholics worship Mary because they DO NOT they HONOR her as CHRIST'S MOTHER, so if that's your argument then that's not going to fly.


Yes Catholics believe that Jesus existed...They do not however believe he was the messiah. Thats where the 2 collide. Catholics and Christianity is totally 2 different religions. Being Catholic is more like being in a club...while being Christian is for any person.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


"There has been a proven link between intelligence/education and a lack of religious belief, basically the smarter you are the less religious you are."

Sorry this is an ignorant statement. Whats your criteria for being intelligent? Im guessing education, with you asking this question you should be well aware that education is anti religion by choice of a select group of people. Not do to the fact that it proves anything. Also intelligence and education are too diffrent things like wisdom and knowledge.

1) Heard of it, but never really payed them any mind. Dont think to much of it.

2)You would have to be more specefic.

3)My family were always of the christian belief, so I picked it up from a young age. But not til recently did I really began to understand what I was truly reading.

4) The vatican is not my cup of tee. I feel as though when Jesus came he eliminated the need to see a pastor to communicate with the Lord.

5)Clearly an opinion,but your only held accountable for what you are aware of( in the word). He would just start spreading the word and preaching truth.



Quick question for you
What do you believe?and why?



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