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Historic climate change deal with legal powers agreed by UK Cabinet

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:09 PM
This is the part that gets me. People have died from not being able to afford to heat their homes in the UK, many had to cut their food budgets drastically and now the citizens will be forced to pay for heat pumps and an increase in electricity prices. So how does this help people to save money? It doesn't.

It does allow for bigger profits for corporations producing electric cars and heat pumps tho.

The committee's report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025. It also says that by the same date 31% of new cars, and 14% of those on the road overall, will be electric. Experts say a total of £16bn of investment will be needed every year to meet the commitment. Some of this money will be raised through increases in electricity prices.

The deal was hammered out after tense arguments between ministers who had disagreed over whether the ambitious plans to switch to more green energy were affordable. The row had pitted the energy secretary, Chris Huhne, who strongly backed the plans, against the chancellor, George Osborne, and the business secretary, Vince Cable, who were concerned about the cost and potential impact on the economy.

The new budget puts the government on target to meet a reduction by 2050 of 80% of carbon emissions compared with 1990 levels. The committee has said that to reach this carbon emissions should be cut by 60% by 2030

"Recent figures have shown that around 300,000 people in Northern Ireland are struggling to keep their houses warm," he said. "It's very bad news for health. Around 1,000 people have died in the last two winters because of cold related illnesses.

edit on 15-5-2011 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 06:04 PM
reply to post by jude11

You will probably find that a large percentage of the current cabinet are either board members of the energy companies or have vasts sums of money invested in stocks and shares of the companies.

They don't care about the suffering this is going to create. I know many people who have struggled all winter and the last one was one of the coldest for many years. We are being warned to expect very bitterly cold winters for the next few years at the very least, so you can see what's coming.

It seems they have found a way of undertaking a de-population programme and make a bundle of cash from it at the same time.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 06:18 PM
reply to post by Cobaltic1978

More and more people are going to suffer in the coming years and you are correct. There are investigations of fixing and perhaps Govt. ownership.

But more specific accusations of profiteering and price manipulation during the long European cold snap arose in the first week of January. Heating oil customers who use complained that, contrary to the site’s pledge to provide users with the “cheapest available price” in their area, the site delivered them hugely inflated prices during and after December’s blizzards. The Office of Fair Trading is now looking into the accusations leveled at boilerjuice.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 06:33 PM
My jaw dropped when I read this today.

Obviously our tiny little island is going to save the planet by putting up our fuel costs!!!!

And of course, all the developing countries, in particular the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China), are now going to say 'what a great example that little country has set for us, maybe it is time to halt our economic growth'.

This is what happens when the Liberal elite get into power. They basically screw the country they live in and sell/trade off all the democracy that our fathers fought and died for.

Ohh, may be a side issue, but the guy that has been pushing this policy big time seems to be caught up in a corruption scandal as reported in the UK MSM.

posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:06 AM
reply to post by jude11

The committee's report says the new carbon deal will require that heat pumps will have had to be installed in 2.6m homes by 2025

This is not possible

As I understand the technology there are two types of heat pump collector, vertical or horizontal, and the type you can install will depend upon the amount of land you have available. In an urban area you can probably forget it completely as the area needed to install has to be free of service ducts etc and with modern small gardens this is going to be a BIG problem.

Next, heat pumps are not straight replacements for conventional boilers that will necessarily work in the environment. They are essentially 'low temperature' systems and CANNOT bring a boiler up to temperature satisfactorily to run a conventional radiator system. They can work with a heat exchanger to run a hot air system, but they are primarily designed to work with underfloor heating systems for which they are ideal.

The cost of installation is immense, but comparison to conventional - as much as twice in some circumstances, and the risks of ground water contamination are fairly high as these need an antifreeze to ensure they do not get frozen/burst in a period of non-use n a cold spell. That is a contamination risk.

Remember too that a heat pump is not some magical free energy system. It uses electricity, although possibly as little as a third of the cost to run as a gas boiler, but the installation costs as stated are very much higher. Because they are heat pumps, they extract heat from the ground. Think about that for a minute. They extract heat from the ground. It is actually possible to freeze the ground in the collector area by pulling the heat from it! Many heat pumps in a small urban area could have consequences, as could having a heat pump collector right next to say your sewage pipework!

On the plus side the system can be reversed and can heat the ground, drawing heat out of the house, so can be used as a cooling system in the summer.

As usual the 'politicians' have come up with a completely unworkable idea that will cause misery and hardship whilst lining the pockets of their pet industries.

By 2025 we will be well into a Dalton minimum. These heat pumps will be a complete and utter failure like the UK Government. (I am allowed to say that as an ex-pat)

Edit to add passage from Wikipedia

When comparing the performance of heat pumps, it is best to avoid the word "efficiency" which has a very specific thermodynamic definition. The term coefficient of performance (COP) is used to describe the ratio of useful heat movement to work input. Most vapor-compression heat pumps utilize electrically powered motors for their work input. However, in most vehicle applications, shaft work, via their internal combustion engines, provide the needed work.

When used for heating a building on a mild day of say 10 °C, a typical air-source heat pump has a COP of 3 to 4, whereas a typical electric resistance heater has a COP of 1.0. That is, one joule of electrical energy will cause a resistance heater to produce one joule of useful heat, while under ideal conditions, one joule of electrical energy can cause a heat pump to move much more than one joule of heat from a cooler place to a warmer place.

Note that the heat pump is more efficient on average in hotter climates than cooler ones, so when the weather is much warmer (in a desert city or southern city) the unit will perform better than average COP. Conversely in cold weather the COP approaches 1. Thus when there is a wide temperature differential between the hot & cold reservoir's the COP is lower (worse).

Source: Wikipedia

Wide temperature difference? -10C outside, +20C inside (as required) - result, inefficiency.


edit on 16/5/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 16 2011 @ 04:25 AM
I have been assuming ground collectors here because that is more efficient, but I suspect that air collectors will be the norm.

One of the side effects of this might be to reduce the urban heat island effect and thus lower temperatures thus proving that climate control works!

edit on 16/5/2011 by PuterMan because: Ah, the inevitable speeling erra

posted on May, 20 2011 @ 12:43 PM
reply to post by PuterMan

"One of the side effects of this might be to reduce the urban heat island effect and thus lower temperatures thus proving that climate control works!"

Apart from the Urban Heat Effect which I think is worthy of a thread of it's own ( I know it may already have one but I can't find it! ) I have read that there are computer models being developed which are trying to determine what, if any, the climatic effects will be on the assuption of so many energy watts being taken out of the atmosphere either by solar or wind power.

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