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Muslims in Western countries need to assimilate for their own sake and this is why

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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People in the West are becoming increasingly hateful towards Muslims, because our cultures do not mesh together.

Westerners can't tolerate Islamic practice because they do things like segregate the sexes and Sharia law, and Muslims can't tolerate us because we drink alcohol and look at porn.

Muslims, I beg you, if not for being courteous to the culture you are living amongst, you HAVE to make some cultural compromises, or else I fear that the West will end up stripping away the rights of all Muslims and commit genocide.

Every Muslim 'honor killing', every Sharia court established in the Western world, every terror attack done by a Muslim youth, brings the entire Muslim diaspora in the West closer to being victims of a second Holocaust.

If you think I am being hysterical, go to Yahoo News, read an article relating to Muslims and see what people comment.




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Here here!!...its nothing personal, but our cultures completley clash...your annoyed. we're annoyed, change or go



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Sinny
Here here!!...its nothing personal, but our cultures completley clash...your annoyed. we're annoyed, change or go


I don't think they should leave, I just think they need to adapt, because if they don't, I am horrified to say this, but I think that Europe will create another Hitler to get rid of them. Especially if Europe's economy continues to get worse. When people's kids are hungry, people are willing to do inhuman things.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by descartes90
 


'Assimilate to the west'? Meaning completely foregoing their individuality and identification with their heritage and culture? Western nations are supposed to encourage individual expression and freedom to choose. How can we dictate to others on how they should dress etc..

Islam has been in Europe for hundreds of years, we've had cordial relationships with Muslim countries for hundreds of years, Islamic styles and cultural practices were actually mimmiced throughout Europe in the past (mostly in protestant countries which enjoyed some degree of friendly interaction with the Ottoman empire). I'm sick of this idea that so many people propagate that we need to have some sort of monolithic all encompassing culture infecting everyones lives. A key principle of the concept of liberty is complete freedom to choose how one lives their life and how one expresses their personal identity. Denying people who practice Islam the right to choose how to live their life and how they express their personal identity would be complete hypocrisy on behalf of the west which is supposed to be a beacon of 'freedom and tolerence'.

I do agree there is an unprecedented amount of prejudice against Muslims in the west and it is set to get worse, but such prejudices are fueled by the media and it's selective reporting NOT by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim community. My dentist is a Muslim, some of the most friendly and most welcoming people I've ever met were Muslims and they shouldn't have to abandon their personal identity because of the insecurity of people who have been spoonfed hatred by the mass media. Education is the answer to social tension, forcing people into 'conforming' will only make the situation worse.

Disclaimer/Apology: I made a pretty harsh criticism of 'western culture' before I editted my post which was completely unnescessary for this post, I apologise if anyone was offended and I do see the true value of real western culture in our respect for individual freedoms and liberties and our heritage of artistic expression, architecture, innovation and exploration. My criticism was of mass-media and it's effects on our contemporary culture, NOT of our true culture and historic achievements as Europeans.
edit on 15-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: adding disclaimer/Apology



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by descartes90
 


'Assimilate to the west'....i.e. buy s**t they don't need, worship celebrity/pop culture, support wars of conquest, support puppet dictators in countries who suppress the wishes of their people, dress like everyone else does, forego their individuality and become another cog in the machine and then they'll be accepted?


Very true I agree. People who criticize the faults of Islam sometimes act like Western culture is perfect. At least Muslims HAVE a culture. LOL All I'm saying is if Westerners do not like burqas, they should be willing to compromise. They should also be willing to accept Western justice systems. Since after all, they are guests when they are in Europe.
edit on 15-5-2011 by descartes90 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by descartes90
 


'Assimilate to the west'....i.e. buy s**t they don't need, worship celebrity/pop culture, support wars of conquest, support puppet dictators in countries who suppress the wishes of their people, dress like everyone else does, forego their individuality and become another cog in the machine and then they'll be accepted


"Forego their individuality"
Are you serious???? Have you seen these guys???



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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This is of course the intended result - a Euro-wide jihad of complete extermination fought with improvised weapons amid total social collapse, famine, disease, plague etc.

This will happen after Israel is forced to use the sampson option against the Arabs/Iran - millions of refugees will spill across the med to join in the grand jihad, with the millions allready here acting as a fith column to criple any effective response.

Russia will simply sit on the borders and wait to sieze a depopulated and defenceless Europe and M.E.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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The simple answer as to what muslims in the west must do is this; nothing.

I've grown up with many muslim friends, I have muslim neighbours, muslim colleagues...and the more I discuss with them the situation of muslims in the west the more I realize that muslims in the west themselves are changing. It really is very difficult to maintain an Islamic lifestyle if you are raised in the west from an early age.
It's very apparent that the new generation of muslims, the children of those adamant on sticking with Islamic principles in a westernized country, will not have the same attributes to ideologies as their parents.

Just get a little tighter with immigration, the ones that are raised here who stick strongly with an Islamic culture will dwindle away rapidly.

By the way, "honor killings" is a cultural problem, not a religious one.

Take a look at this chart.......and ask yourselves...why are the words terrorist and Muslims inseparable?
edit on 15-5-2011 by FermiFlux because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by descartes90
 


I don't exactly like the image of someone covered head to toe but at the same I do NOT support governments outlawing a person from wearing what they want.
As for your point about western justice systems, Sharia courts that operate in the west are in full compliance with our own system. It's not a 'two tier system' like some media like to portray, it's just streamlining certain legal proceedings in accordance with their religion.
There have been Muslims in Europe since at least the year 711. Britain has a long history of diplomatic and economic relations with the barbary states and the Ottoman empire. To simply call a citizen who happens to be Muslim a 'guest' in Europe seems a bit of a sweeping generalisation considering we've had such an interrelated history of conquest, re-conquest and diplomatic relations with Muslim nations. Also one must consider the hundreds of thousands of converts within Europe who are already 'assimilated' into our culture and what effect they may have on their respective communities.

I do understand where you are coming from but I disagree with the premise that the problem of social tension between the Muslim community and non-Muslim communities is about an unwillingness to assimilate. I'm inclined to believe that there is minor-segregation between these communities because of media generalisations, victimisation and lack of education.
edit on 15-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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Can we qualify this by saying Muslim extremists?

How about ALL extremists? And assimilate isn't the right word either. The correct series of words would be:Follow the law of the land and do not attempt to force your views on others through law and legislation...

Wait thats what Christian fundamentalists have been doing in the US for a long long time...

It isn't about assimilation it is about tolerance, on both sides for a way of life different from your own. In addition if your way of life violates basic human rights laws of the host country you need to follow the laws of the land you go to. I wouldn't go to an Islamic nation and scream persecution when they got mad at me for opening a strip club and bar.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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Bin Laden had a huge stash of porn.
www.reuters.com...



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Soldier of God
 


I don't understand your question "have you seen these guys?"

My point was that a person should be able to dress how they please and identify themselves with a religion or culture freely and without prejudice. Because our society is supposed to be founded upon freedom of expression.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Soldier of God
Bin Laden had a huge stash of porn.
www.reuters.com...


Bin Laden was not a Muslim. he was an agent.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by descartes90

Originally posted by Soldier of God
Bin Laden had a huge stash of porn.
www.reuters.com...


Bin Laden was not a Muslim. he was an agent.


Agent of what???



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


While I somewhat agree with what your saying that most westerners over react due to misinformation or ignorance about Muslims I dont think the OP fits into that catergory.

I think what they are saying is there needs to be some integration, these people have left the society they were born into and when they move somewhere "better" they want to change it to something like what they left.

1st thing you should do if moving to another country, LEARN THE LANGUAGE!!!! Alot of immigrants from middle eastern countries dont, especially when they tend to live amongst their own communities.

To me the thought of moving to another country and wanting to implement different laws to fit your particular sub group is just the height of arrogance. If you dont like the language/custome/laws of the country then dont go.
I dont care if your a refugee either, if you dont like it and arent going to assimilate go home!!!!!

I agree that cultural diversity is a great thing, in Australia we have all the festivals to some degree or another Xmas, Diwalli, Chinese new year, Hari Raya etc etc and its alot of fun and educational to go to these things and learn about different cultures. For these celebrations people go all out to represent their cultures but afterwards we all go back to being Aussie.

I dont think the OP wants or is asking people to become mindless consumer sheeple, just to have some respect for the laws and customs of the country that has taken them in and in many ways supporting them when they would otherwise be in a filthy tent city somewhere or under a regime they disliked so much they had to leave their country in the first place.
edit on 15-5-2011 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by descartes90
Westerners can't tolerate Islamic practice because they do things like segregate the sexes and Sharia law, and Muslims can't tolerate us because we drink alcohol and look at porn.


Initially you said the cultures don't mesh & then followed it up with this. So is it that they don't mesh or that the western civilization, in your words, is just intolerant to what is different? There is a difference.


Originally posted by descartes90
Muslims, I beg you, if not for being courteous to the culture you are living amongst, you HAVE to make some cultural compromises, or else I fear that the West will end up stripping away the rights of all Muslims and commit genocide.


It sure would be swell of them to lose their identity and come for a swim in the melting pot that so many want to create. It would be so courteous of them to adapt to a more "western" lifestyle, because everyone knows we all have got it down so well. You know, with the rampant drug use, mental health issues with depression, suicide, divorce rates, it would be great if more people could be more like us, on the basis that we don't understand them.

In your post, you've asked for a compromise. This is usually a two way street. What is "our" compromise? That we allow them to live on our side of the world?

Muslim cultures, or others like it that we don't understand, do not need to assimilate. It is us in the western world with this unwavering arrogance that needs to take a step down and see the world for what it really is. And the truth to this is that we don't know any more than anybody else. It's only us that acts like we do and it's comments like this that proves it.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Yeah I realised that I was maybe a bit harsh in my earlier comments but there is a large wave of unnescessary pidgeon-holing of certain groups within Europe. Many people would expect certain communities to simply give up their entire heritage in order to 'fit-in', uniformity is something I feel is heavily encouraged by the mass media and it's not something that will make Europe a better place.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by chissler
 


Let me ask you, what do these understanding Muslims do to accept people that move to their lovely little corner of the world? Do they live and let live or do they murder people for having a bible or kill women who have been raped? Could you fly an American or Canadian flag or would the local "HOA" chop your head off? You people are blind if you don't see the back bending we already do in the name of everything! But we are the ones that have to remove our holiday decorations and flags to appease wonderfully accepting people...




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Soldier of God
 


This thread is talking about Muslims. You're talking about terrorists and extremists. My post is talking about followers of the Muslim faith. Are you? Or are you talking about terrorists and extremists? Or are you saying they are all one in the same?

Certainly every terrorist isn't a Muslim and every Muslim isn't a terrorist.

...right?



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