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Implanted memories of Blue Skies

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
i agree there are alot of papers on persistent contrail's, i have read many of them and i have found only one that talks about timespan of how long one would persist before it would become a cirrus cloud which was one hour so i would say 2 hour's at most which is double what the paper stated now i look up and see trail's that are thick and milky in colour that spread out and stay in a trail like shape for 8 hours is not normal.


That seems highly unlikely, as the upper level winds are typically at least 50 mph, so the contrail would be 400 miles away in 8 hours, so well over the horizon. Do you have an example photo?



also i would like to say which type of false memory is more likely to be implanted
1.that when we where young it was clear blue sky's.
2.that the sky has always be full of persistent contrail's
now wouldn't it be counter productive to implant option 1 when we now have persistent contrail's everyday after all wouldn't that just cause an outcry of bring back our blue sky's?


I don't think the memories of blue are deliberately implanted - they just end up that way via reinforcement from peer groups, and you memory focussing more on memorable summer days and photos of vacations.



i would like to finish by saying that where i live last summer i would sunbath in the back garden for hours at a time looking up at the sky watching the planes go over and never once did i see a contrail last more than a few second's 10 min's at the most and this summer i look up and see the planes leaving trail's that last for 4 to 8 hour's so in effect i'm talking about a noticeable difference in a year timespan so your theory is flawed.


But that basically says that chemtrails only started in 2011. Other people remember it differently.

Approximately where do you live?




posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Uncinus
 


i agree there are alot of papers on persistent contrail's, i have read many of them and i have found only one that talks about timespan of how long one would persist before it would become a cirrus cloud which was one hour so i would say 2 hour's at most which is double what the paper stated

Missed this one? From 1970:

The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.


Contrail development and spreading begins in the morning hours with the start of heavy jet traffic and may extend from horizon to horizon as the air traffic peaks. Fig. 1 is a typical example of midmorning contrails that occurred on 17 December 1969 northwest of Boulder. By midafternoon, sky conditions had developed into those shown in Fig.2, an almost solid contrail sheet reported to an average 500 m in depth.

journals.ametsoc.org...



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by tom goose
ya i know. and even when it is cold car exhaust dissipates. I grew up in Grand Prairie AB and it gets cold there, i remember the exhaust sometimes getting as high as like 20 ft (not that i actually measured) but it would always go away eventually.


In fairbanks, Alaska, the car exhausts contribute to ice fog, which hangs around for hours. Remember a car exhaust is smaller than a jet engine, so an individual trail won't be visible for as long, just from natural wind dispersion. Contrails are thousands of times the size of car exhausts.
contrailscience.com...



I am not a meteorologist or a geo-engineer, but i do know that something has to be done to cool the planet and Cap and Trade is not going to cut it and im sure you agree. What are the options??


There are lots of options, but that's kind of getting off topic.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


take a look at this paper give it a good read and then come back to me with your conclusions.
as for my comment's to weedwacker its because i and him have bumped heads many times and unfortunately my post is in the only format he seam's to understand and if you want to throw the personnel attack card then you should really read many of his post's that are extremely nasty to say the least therefore i reply in the same manner.
here's that link
journals.ametsoc.org...(2000)057%3C0464%3AOTTOCI%3E2.0.CO%3B2
edit on 15-5-2011 by djcarlosa because: (no reason given)

now i'm sorry it seams that the link is broken which is rather strange as i can still get it up on my computer and it didn't come from that website which i have to say is rather strange thankfully i have a burned a copy on to disc so i will see if i can find another way of getting it uploaded for you

edit on 15-5-2011 by djcarlosa because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Here's a fascinating example of a well documented false memory. Two people had slightly different memories of the same experience, but only one of them was there.

scienceblogs.com...

Not only does he remember something that he did not see, he remembers details (the stitching on the buttons) that were impossible for him to see.
edit on 15-5-2011 by Uncinus because: added bit about stitching



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Thanks for the link i will take the time to read through it properly but again i see no timespan as to how long a trail would stay trail shape before it would become dissipated enough to become visible as a cirrus cloud apart from that i will refrain from commenting further until i have read it through.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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...Also, I have witnessed chemtrails that loose altitude. They are emitted at high altitude and slowly spread out and loose altitude until they are very close overhead.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by neobludragon

Yes infact I did, and the squares were not the same color.


You are doing a magnificent job verifying the OP's premise on flawed witness perception and confirmation bias.

The squares are identical in color.

All you have to do to see for yourself is open the image in an editing program like M.S. Paint or Photoshop and use the color picker tool.

Can you honestly continue your argument based on your memories of sky color in good faith after demonstrating the OP's point so conclusively?

I wasn't arguing about the sky color, I could care less about the sky being blue or not. My main arguement is that my eyes do not deceive me. Nor do my memories.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by binkbonk
...Also, I have witnessed chemtrails that loose altitude. They are emitted at high altitude and slowly spread out and loose altitude until they are very close overhead.


I think that's an optical illusion. The contrail is just moving away from you with the wind, so it looks like it is getting lower, when it's really just getting closer to the horizon.

Photos would be helpful here.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by neobludragon
I wasn't arguing about the sky color, I could care less about the sky being blue or not. My main arguement is that my eyes do not deceive me. Nor do my memories.


But you just proved they do, by saying the squares are different colors.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by neobludragon
 


Do you now agree that the squares are the same color?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
reply to post by neobludragon
 


Do you now agree that the squares are the same color?


They might be the same color if you do it your way but they aren't if you don't do it with the paper and the color picker tool. That is good enough for me. Its not like I am trying to see a difference.

As I previously said, I trust my memories and my eyes. To have doubt is to be weak. I suppose most of the people who actually go along with this argument of false memories being implemented are weak.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by neobludragon
They might be the same color if you do it your way but they aren't if you don't do it with the paper and the color picker tool. That is good enough for me. Its not like I am trying to see a difference.

As I previously said, I trust my memories and my eyes. To have doubt is to be weak. I suppose most of the people who actually go along with this argument of false memories being implemented are weak.


The squares are both the exact same color with the color picker tool. RGB 120,120,120.

You can't trust your memories, or your eyes. To have doubt is to be scientific, and to search for truth. You think not having blind faith is "weak"?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by neobludragon
They might be the same color if you do it your way but they aren't if you don't do it with the paper and the color picker tool. That is good enough for me. Its not like I am trying to see a difference.

As I previously said, I trust my memories and my eyes. To have doubt is to be weak. I suppose most of the people who actually go along with this argument of false memories being implemented are weak.


The squares are both the exact same color with the color picker tool. RGB 120,120,120.

You can't trust your memories, or your eyes. To have doubt is to be scientific, and to search for truth. You think not having blind faith is "weak"?


If the person is trying to make other people believe something that is not true for some people then yes. Not everyone is as stupid as you may think. Yes I'm sure there are people out there that will believe stuff they are told to be true, but I know for a fact that I am not one of those people.

In my honest opinion you sound like you are trying to make people forget rather then remember. Saying, "You can't trust your memories" If you can't trust your memories then you can't trust anything and you might as well just be a mindless drone. So are you trying to make people into mindless drones?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by neobludragon
As I previously said, I trust my memories and my eyes. To have doubt is to be weak. I suppose most of the people who actually go along with this argument of false memories being implemented are weak.


That raises an interesting point though. Some people might be raised like you, to be strong, have have courage of their convictions, to stick to their guns, to not be swayed by others. They might do this to such an extent that it becomes second nature to them, and their great fear of appearing weak will actually make them more susceptible to errant memories than someone who actually questions things.

For such a person, the need for certainty is paramount. So any memory that contradicts with their world view, or even a lack of memory, is smoothed over or added to until it stops irritating their mind.

I'd suggest that using your strength to believe something in a face of all evidence might not be the best use of that strength. A better use would be to challenge your preconceptions, and seek out the truth.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by neobludragon
As I previously said, I trust my memories and my eyes. To have doubt is to be weak. I suppose most of the people who actually go along with this argument of false memories being implemented are weak.


That raises an interesting point though. Some people might be raised like you, to be strong, have have courage of their convictions, to stick to their guns, to not be swayed by others. They might do this to such an extent that it becomes second nature to them, and their great fear of appearing weak will actually make them more susceptible to errant memories than someone who actually questions things.

For such a person, the need for certainty is paramount. So any memory that contradicts with their world view, or even a lack of memory, is smoothed over or added to until it stops irritating their mind.

I'd suggest that using your strength to believe something in a face of all evidence might not be the best use of that strength. A better use would be to challenge your preconceptions, and seek out the truth.


I seek the truth just as much as the next person, BUT, I have no need to question my memories. Sometimes I wish my memories could be replaced with other memories. Then at least I'd be able to sleep better at night and be able to function in society without fear of stuff that my childhood has made me fear.
edit on 15-5-2011 by neobludragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by neobludragon
I seek the truth just as much as the next person, BUT, I have no need to question my memories. Sometimes I wish my memories could be replaced with other memories. Then at least I'd be able to sleep better at night and be able to function in society without fear of stuff that my childhood has made me fear.


So you think everyone has perfect memory, and nobody could ever get a false memory? That seems rather at odds with the evidence.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by neobludragon
I seek the truth just as much as the next person, BUT, I have no need to question my memories. Sometimes I wish my memories could be replaced with other memories. Then at least I'd be able to sleep better at night and be able to function in society without fear of stuff that my childhood has made me fear.


So you think everyone has perfect memory, and nobody could ever get a false memory? That seems rather at odds with the evidence.


I never said no one can ever get false memory. I am only saying that I as my own person do not have false memory. I am not saying that it can't happen to me either. I am saying I wish it did happen to me.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


i have a question for you as i know you read the journals of which the paper i tried to post a link to is a part of but although i can read it from my bookmarks when i copy paste the link it now says the paper is unavailable which seams rather strange i wonder if you could find the paper in question as i know in another thread you stated that you are a subscriber and post a link here.
the paper is titled On the Transition of Contrails into Cirrus Clouds
many thanks



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


i live in the uk in a triangle which has very low amount's of air traffic or at least it did last summer.
Now twice a day we have 30 planes fly back and forth leaving these plane trail's that last 4 to 8 hours.
this is why the difference is so noticeable to me now i know that south of us [london brighton east sussex and west sussex these trail's have been noticed for the last 5 to 10 years but it seams that they have increased the area that are being sprayed hence the change in the area where i live.




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